Brrrrrr, winter's here, how much flying are you getting in?

[cymaz]

Cheers Mike

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

good advice Mike

get yourself out into the sunshine Cymas, long time since we had any

[Terry Walters]

Posted by cymaz on 09/03/2014 10:28:46:

Great forecast for the next 10 days in PL31. Off sick now with neurasthenia

And its get well soon from me too Cymaz!

Terry

[cymaz]

Thanks one and all

[Tomtom39]

I had my first flight of the year yesterday , followed by several today.

Following another thread ie post-winter pre flight check I was surprised to find that a number of my lipos which had been stored at 40-60% (ie as per manufacturers guidlines) were damaged ie some cells were showing nil charge or had dropped by quite a margin compared to the others . These were all bought at the beginning of the season and have logged approx 20 flights each. All kept in lipo bags and then in a storage container.

On another note one of the ESC's (the batteries used on that were not affected!) the positive wire had come off the connector and gone green. (Drawing too much current?) Powertrain as supplied by Horizon and using EFlite batteries(HABU 2)

[Erfolg]

Like it or not, I am going to provide some with a laugh and proberly bore many,that is until I pass the A test. I suspect that it could involve many posts.

Today I decided to make my first attempt. Forced on me in reality by the imminent reclaiming of the club trainer, for another purpose. It has become a much loved model, a DB Mascot, clipped wing at 54" span, hauled into the sky by a ancient Thunder Tiger.

The beginning of the session started with a practice session, figure of eight,low pass, then the club double loop. All went well until the second repeated sequence. On entering the second loop,the engine stopped, being observant type, I knew this as the model, hung in the air, then slid back. Recovering from the situated, I shouted dead stick. I was now confident all was well, I noticed I was rather near the ground, I thought, flying between the two flanking avenues of trees. I made a split second desion and started to make a 180 degrees to the left, as my instructor shouted to turn right. All was welitthough as I landed safely in a tree.

We raced to the scene, to find it perched in the upper branches some 40 feet high. Drat I thought, looking up. Not a chance of climbing up to it. It was now that the camaraderie of the club came to the fore. It was decided that a little gentle pruning was required, a variety of tree saws were produced. After a hours work, the model was brought to the ground safely.

I was now ready for the test it self. Which I of course triumphantly failed with a series of misadventures, which I will write about for your amusement, later.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

you're a funny fella Erflog

cant wait for episode 2

good luck with the test

don't pass it too quickly though

[iqon]

Had my first flight of the year today, left was still left and right was still right, i`m happy....

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Erfolg on 09/03/2014 21:03:17:

Like it or not, I am going to provide some with a laugh and proberly bore many,that is until I pass the A test. I suspect that it could involve many posts.

The beginning of the session started with a practice session, figure of eight,low pass, then the club double loop.

The only thing I'm laughing about is why your club seems to think that doing a second loop has anything to do with your ability to fly safely on your own! I don't understand it and I wonder whether your Area Chief Examiner would either.

Unless you or one of your examiners can enlighten us?

Anyway, I'd just like to wish you well with your quest to achieve your A this year - whether or not your club sees fit to comply with the national standard.

[David Davis]

Erfolg

It took me two attempts to pass my driving test but I got my A Certificate first time. I've never had a car accident in over 35 years of driving but one look at the wreckage in my loft will tell you all about my flying abilities!

Best of luck next time.

David

[MikeS]

First trip of the year to the club for me ended in my Pulse breaking up during a spin, hope its not a sign of things to come.

Mike

[Erfolg]

I personally would not criticise my second clubs rules with respect to flying unsupervised. There are two reasons, the first may seem rather poor, I have no intention in alienating other club members, particularly as I have found them quite a good lot. The second is that it fits very nicely with my own philosophy, that is you take the BMFA recommendations for what they are, recommendations, then ask the question are they to sever or to onerous for our situation and requirements. Then set out you how operate on that basis (whilst considering UK law and regulations), to achieve a pleasurable and safe play area. As that is what we do. I have no time for the view, that is not compliant with what the BMFA says, it is not compliant, therefore must be wrong. But do not get me wrong, I see as an advisory and a representative body they do a good job. At the same time I believe in owning personal safety, with emphasis on constant consideration (as part of life)are my intended actions wise, can I improve outcomes. whooops I have just fallen of my soap box.

I Think we need to set the scene to understand the flying area, it is essentially a "L" shape, actually rotated by 90 degrees to make sense of the actual geometry. All sides are surrounded by trees, with trees immediately behind, the flight line. Only one leg of the "L" is mowed and is approx 60 yards wide and about 100 yards long. Then there is some scrub land of about 20-30 yards, then the trees with a river beyond. The area from where models is flown is at the inside corner of the "L". Looking around the corner the "L" you are faced by an avenue of trees which converge in the distance at about 200 yards. The far side of the tree avenue is again flanked by a river. This description does not do justice to the challenges of flying from a valuable site to us aeromodellers. I believe it is the rather demanding aspects of the site that both the cause and justify the demonstration of a skill level, which is a little better than just being safe.

Anyway I will write the rather more amusing account of the test, at least to those who enjoy the discomfort of others, a bit Charlie Chaplin like.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

if your happy with the group of people you fly with i'm pleased for you

same with your clubs test, I have no desire to butt in, you made your feelings clear I shall mind my own business

you described your post as amusing, it a bit unfair to describe people as "enjoying others discomfort" purely because they join in a post they took to be an attempt at humour. As I said good luck with your club test

[Erfolg]

John, there is no intention to be unkind to anybody. I do think much humour is about people having mishaps, the misguided deeds, that end with a fall, a face full of foam or some other silly accident.

In some respects, the events which unfolded are a testament to if it can go wrong, t will happen.

Now I have had time to reflect I can see that the first decision I made was so wrong, all that followed was preordained irrespective of subsequent actions. When I stalled out of the loop, with a dead engine, I found that the height was not apparently ideal for any obvious action, not without some work. I was in the wrong position and height for a good down wind or cross wind landing. I was not in an ideal height and position for a into wind landing, without some positive action of the right type. I needed to head down wind and to the side, heading for the far trees, before swinging into wind in a right turn. Hence my instructors, left, left. left, instruction. Heading down the middle between the trees, reduced the options to zilch, there was just not the room for the right turn, until it was created.

As I outlined earlier, the model was retrieved from the tree, apparently unscathed. The model was carefully checked out by me for structural damage. The controls were checked, the elevator servo was carefully observed, as I was not sure absolutely, that it moved smoothly. I was eventually convinced all was well. It had survived from a 40 foot tree, it was one lucky model.

I was ready to go. The model was fuelled up, started by my ground crew. The needle advanced by one click. Just to make sure that it was not lean. The nose held high on full throttle. Oh yes, all was well with the modern world.

I asked my examiners to assemble and observe. The model was checked out again in a theatrical manner, because although the prime examiner knew it had been checked, he had to see it. The model started, checked again. Taken to the flight line, checked again. I then took of under the critical eyes of the two examiners.

Now what may surprise you, is that different instructors, attempt to carefully follow the guidance notes of the BMFA. Yet there is inevitably some differences in interpretation and opinion as to what is safe and is required. I have one instructor tell me, stop doing those big flamboyant loops, any deviation on the second becomes very obvious, to the extent it is arguable how much control you are displaying. Keep it simple, and you loop far to low. Others have different ideas as to size and height. I also feel that my second examiner feels I throw the model about like a pylon racer and is not impressed at my antics. I think you now know that I have wound myself up, but think, sod them, I will just do my thing.

So I do my take off, left and right hand circuits, low pass, double loops, climb to height and throttle back, shout dead stick and land. Easy peasy.

I am now told I have to take of and land.

I think, oh, my God, I have done this a thousand times, why bother. So I open the throttle, the model scampers across the grass, leaps majestically into the air, the climb out starts and the motor stops. Umph, this is really awkward, what to do. Not 30 feet in front are a line of trees blocking the way, beyond there is the river. Should i panic? Will it help? No I will do a 90 degree turn the best I can, and land cross wind. Yes I managed to find the brambles in the uncultivated area.

There was a short debate if the test could continue, or if the test would have to be started again. Pity was taken on me and we could continue.

So the engine restarted, same nose high routine, all was well with the world again. Back to the take of area, throttle opened, the model raced along the ground, bucked and bounced. Eventually I hauled it carefully into the air. I now was very conscious that this take of is into the Sun and had been long. Of equal concern, the height was not great and not increasing very fast. The Sun had left me seeing essentially a black shape. I turned parallel to the line of trees, as if I continued, without a gain in height, the model would disappear from view behind the trees. Having turned, i was not convinced i had turned sufficiently, so i turned more. I think you can gather things are not going well with this rather routine event. I was now heading back towards me and my two examiners. Then the dreaded words that you never want to hear "you might as well land immediately, I can not pass that". As the model passed us everything seemed all right, the model was taken round and landed.

[Erfolg]

Since the humiliation of failing I started thinking, there seems to be a problem with the engine. It has been so reliable to date, but does not seem to be so now. Ah hah! I thought, could it be the glow plug failing? So first thing this morning I put a new one in, from my stock when I flew IC some 30 years back. Then I thought, it played up briefly some time back, until it was discovered that the clunk had doubled back on itself. At the time it was thought to be an air leak, but was the clunk. So after doing my chores, I decided to check out the tank and plumbing. Yet again the clunk, was doubled back on itself. I have undertaken open tank surgery, with the view of inserting a straight piece of brass tubing, to make an assembly with one short bendy joint. All those who have repaired their own cars from manuals, will recognise that the description seems easy, doing it was another matter.

Although I failed and agree that there was no option. On my part, I would in principal do much the same again. As I feel if I had allowed the model to drift to the far side of the trees, the results could have been worse, although not necessarily, the model crashing in all probability into the river or the unmanaged land of the EA.

From my perspective, the easy bit of just taking off, doing a circuit and landing was anything but. Oh how I have been chastened.

[cymaz]

I don't want to sound churlish in any way but what a learning experience. I congratulate your courage on having another go.

No harm done....clunks doubling back are a pain-don't I know!

Next time you do the test you will be OK and pass. I await with interest

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

ok Erf,

i'll continue to read your exploits, if your ever near Donny come and have a fly with us.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Erfolg on 10/03/2014 15:38:14:

I personally would not criticise my second clubs rules with respect to flying unsupervised. There are two reasons, the first may seem rather poor, I have no intention in alienating other club members, particularly as I have found them quite a good lot. The second is that it fits very nicely with my own philosophy, that is you take the BMFA recommendations for what they are, recommendations, then ask the question are they to sever or to onerous for our situation and requirements. Then set out you how operate on that basis (whilst considering UK law and regulations), to achieve a pleasurable and safe play area. As that is what we do. I have no time for the view, that is not compliant with what the BMFA says, it is not compliant, therefore must be wrong. But do not get me wrong, I see as an advisory and a representative body they do a good job. At the same time I believe in owning personal safety, with emphasis on constant consideration (as part of life)are my intended actions wise, can I improve outcomes. whooops I have just fallen of my soap box.

Please don't misunderstand me Erfolg. I have never had any problem with a club imposing its own standards of flying and I understand your desire not to upset the apple cart but I don't understand how a different test can be used to issue a BMFA A Certificate. That should be issued for demonstrating the A test requirements - no more and no less. There is some room for customisation in the questions relating to local rules and procedures of course and the test must be flown adhering to any no fly zones defined by club rules. Your double loop (and any other non-A test manoeuvres) could be added to the test flight or demonstrated separately for club purposes but should not be used as criteria to decide whether you have passed or failed a BMFA A test.

If they feel that a double loop is a necessary skill in order to operate safely at a challenging site then fine. I would have hoped that an imaginative committee could have come up with something more relevant though!

Edited By Martin Harris on 11/03/2014 00:06:23

[Erfolg]

Bearing in mind I have only been a member for just 12 months, I have no real idea how the current arrangement was reached.

I would imagine from the clubs point of view, the main consideration is ensuring that flying models at the site is undertaken safely. From that stand point, the "A" test is part of the process that has been adopted to achieve this objective as far as is practical. I think they see the "A" test certification as being a bonus, not the objective.

To some extent the "A" test was the initial objective, the other being a place where I could fly my wheeled models, without somersaulting on landing.

I have seen other sites with issues with trees, I suspect, that from memory, that the Arrowe Park site has some trees. Again from memory, not on the same proximity or enclosing nature.

Both the test and flying from this site, has increased dramatically my consideration of planning of what to do if, this, or that, happens. At my other club, there is no need, the nearest solitary buildings are about a mile away. no trees, a dead level landscape. The only hazards are cows or wheat type crops if you were to land out. The sites are so different, that the double loops are not to onerous. The main issue is how tight is permissible and the weather can play a big part, in a cross wind.

On reflection, with a little more care, I should and could have been able to nurse the model around in an acceptable way, to meet the "A" test requirements. I did however act with a view, to minimise a fly away, and if it were to crash, it would have been on the field. At the time I did not suspect a clunk or possible plug issue. What I did know was that I had stupidly taken to long to lift off, flown near to the sun, and now was rather low over trees, looking at a model that seemed to be just a black shape and it may have been flying away. It is another lesson learnt, do not take of towards the trees, better to aim for the more open area, cross wind if necessary, or make sure you can take of earlier.

Again, on reflection, I do think that the examiners were genuinely concerned, that here was a model flying towards them, lowish down. From my point of view, I was now certain where and what the model was doing, and knew I had full control, taking it past us about 20 feet out. With a model that seemed to be OK, no obvious major power issue, other than it was not climbing on full throttle. The set of manoeuvres were certainly not what was expected though.

Another lesson, I was prepared to have another go. Fortunately, perhaps, they needed to go home. As if the clunk was was the issue, I could have experienced the same variable behaviour. When having a bad day, give up, consider what is going wrong.

I am far more worried now though, about the model and  about the test

 

Edited By Erfolg on 11/03/2014 13:28:58

[cymaz]

Erfolg, remember s.w.e.e.t.s. Sun Wind Emergencies Eventualities Tx control Site rules.

Where is the sun does it interfere with take off and landing and avoid flying into it

How is the wind swinging about is it varying in strength

Emergancies - where is the best place to land if the motor stops do I have enough speed and height

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Erf, without seeing you fly its difficult to give advice

i'll try and give some encouragement instead, ask how they want the loops performed or ask for a demonstration of the whole test. Examiners there to help as well as conduct test, its in his interest that your flying skills improve that's the whole point of it. the more in control you are the safer you should be.

it reads like its an ordeal, take a step back and rebuild your confidence. when you fly a test, fly your normal style it must be good enough or they would not be allowing a test at all.

don't over think things, do a few dummy runs or whatever it takes to get you relaxed its supposed to be fun as well as safe.

[ken anderson.]

another nice day in ne....1.......a bit of a cold breeze coming off the watter(sea)...but apart from that ok...dry and sunny....

ken Anderson ne..1 .....weather dept....

[Martyn K]

Almost time for a new Thread

 

'Spring is here - what is stopping you from flying"

Edited By David Ashby - RCME on 12/03/2014 08:42:48