Have You Tried To Renew Your Vehicle Tax Today?

[PatMc]

Posted by Ben B on 02/10/2014 09:26:10:

I think the whole thing is disingenuous. They say the new system will prevent purple from buying a car and driving off without realising it doesn't have road tax. But there is an easy way of finding out in tha circumstance in days gone by- you could just look at the tax disc. What are you supposed to do if you borrow a relatives car now? Assume it's taxed? Not trust them and go online to check? And in that circumstance if it transpired it wasn't taxed what happens- points and a fine for the driver despite the fault not being their own???

How does the owner know you're insured to drive their car ? Seems to me that the same trust applies.

IMO doing away with the disc is overdue, it seems they've never been checked now for a couple of years anyway & were open to theft/swapping around etc.

[Peter Miller]

Just as a point of interest. My tax is due on Feb 1st. can i go out now and take the tax disc off the car?

What I DO think should be compulsory is video cameras in cars. They protect the driver in that they prove whose fault it was and it does make one drive carefuly in the knowledge that your own driving is on record.

i have one in my car with GPS so I can put the memory card in the computer and follow my track on the road and see what speed I was doing at any point. It also has a G meter in it so If I tapped some car in the back end they can't scream "Whiplash".

Yes, I know of one case where someone tapped a car, didn't even leave a mark on the bumper. The man was screaming that his kids had whiplash as soon as he climed out of the car.

[Essjay]

It is possible for anyone to check any vehicle is taxed or not, straight from the Government website. All you need to know is the registration and make of the vehicle. Handy if you use hire cars or are borrowing someone else's car.

**LINK**

 

Edited By Essjay on 02/10/2014 12:30:59

[Paul Adams]

Since the tax is not transferred, does that mean when you purchase a car from a private seller that:-

You need to tax it before you can drive it on the road?

Can you tax a car who is owed by someone else? If not how do you tax the car before you drive it home?

Is your insurance valid for an un-taxed car?

[Chris Anthony]

Paul,

"You need to tax it before you can drive it on the road?"

Yes, this is still a legal requirement.

"Can you tax a car who is owed by someone else? If not how do you tax the car before you drive it home?"

Yes you can actually, although it seems unintuitive. For all the DVLA online payment system knows, the person buying the tax who isn't the registered keeper could still be a joint owner of the car, or a friend/relative doing the keeper of the car a favour, etc.

"Is your insurance valid for an un-taxed car?"

Yes. Insurance can exist without Tax or MOT being on the car. A reason for this could be insuring a car stored in a garage that is off the road against fire and theft, this could be done on a normal insurance policy. But this of course doesn't mean you are legal to drive a car with insurance and without tax, you still need both. And I don't know if an insurer will pay for a claim if the car was driven on the road without an MOT.

Edited By Chris Anthony on 02/10/2014 14:07:08

[StarLoc FiveStar Adhesives]

I have just bought a UK registered Mitsubishi Warior in Bulgaria 2 weeks ago with road tax running out at the end of the month,

Tried to tax it online a week ago , website says you cant unless at a post office

Car listed as being sold already, once listed as sold if not yet registered cant be taxed online or by phone only at post office till owner is changed

Left it in Bulgaria and flew 2000 miles back from Bulgaria to the UK to tax it

In the past it has worked , they must have changed it, car now in Bulgaria taxed with no disk, police just stopped a friend driving it and demanded UK tax disk...25 pound fine now for not having it.....

Edited By StarLoc FiveStar Adhesives on 02/10/2014 14:21:49

[Michael Ramsay-Fraser]

Posted by Chris Anthony on 02/10/2014 14:06:41:

Paul,

And I don't know if an insurer will pay for a claim if the car was driven on the road without an MOT.

Edited By Chris Anthony on 02/10/2014 14:07:08

Short answer is yes, you can drive a car legally without tax and MOT provided you are on your way to a pre-arranged MOT test.

The strange thing is, I could drive my untaxed and MOTless car from my home in Perthshire to London (or anywhere else in the UK) provided I can prove I have it booked in for an MOT.

I learned this from a traffic cop who flew from London to buy one of my classic cars which was on a SORN. He booked an MOT over the phone and drove it home. The car was probably in better condition than most cars on the road anyway so slightly academic.

[Michael Ramsay-Fraser]

Posted by Braddock, VC on 01/10/2014 13:30:47:

Well I hope the those who waited till today to test the system fall foul of the cops who waited till today to test their system. Either you are taxed or not so no tax = more money to the exchequer via on the spot penalties.

And it'll serve you right.

That's very good of you Braddock. Wishing misfortune on others. If only everybody was as perfect as you, the world would be a wonderful place.

Ever consider those who might be short of money and have no choice but to wait until the end of the month and then were faced with a system crash? Or, perhaps, the old lady living alone who has become ill and has nobody to help them?

Of course you havn't. In your perfect world everyone had the time and means to attend to everything they have to a week in advance.

[Chris Anthony]

Posted by Michael Ramsay-Fraser on 02/10/2014 14:30:11:

Short answer is yes, you can drive a car legally without tax and MOT provided you are on your way to a pre-arranged MOT test.

The strange thing is, I could drive my untaxed and MOTless car from my home in Perthshire to London (or anywhere else in the UK) provided I can prove I have it booked in for an MOT.

I learned this from a traffic cop who flew from London to buy one of my classic cars which was on a SORN. He booked an MOT over the phone and drove it home. The car was probably in better condition than most cars on the road anyway so slightly academic.

Thanks Michael. I was aware of this, but it's not until now that I've actually wondered how insurers see this. I am aware (and have made good use of) the fact that the law/police will allow you to drive a car to a pre-booked MOT with tax or an MOT on the car, just insurance.

But if you happened to have a crash whilst doing this, would your insurer pay out? All policies I've ever seen require the car to be "road-worthy", and the only recognised indication of road-worthiness that I am aware of is an MOT certificate. Are you in fact uninsured by driving a car that does not have MOT?

Sorry if people find this irrelevant to the thread topic

Edited By Chris Anthony on 02/10/2014 15:02:41

[Mr.B.]

and of course pre 1968 vehicles are now MOT exempt. An MOT station would test it for you but it would not go on the data base. How to take a simple if imperfect system and make it a whole lot worse.

[Michael Ramsay-Fraser]

Posted by Chris Anthony on 02/10/2014 15:00:40:

Posted by Michael Ramsay-Fraser on 02/10/2014 14:30:11:

But if you happened to have a crash whilst doing this, would your insurer pay out? All policies I've ever seen require the car to be "road-worthy", and the only recognised indication of road-worthiness that I am aware of is an MOT certificate. Are you in fact uninsured by driving a car that does not have MOT?

Sorry if people find this irrelevant to the thread topic

Edited By Chris Anthony on 02/10/2014 15:02:41

Don't see wh not although I've never tested the theory. I have a number of cars and some I only tax for 6 months of the year and then put them on SORN over the winter. I usually keep the insurance running on these. I have another couple of 'restorations' which I have on 'laid up' insurance (very cheep). If anything were to happen to these cars such as a fire at my workshop or, worse stolen, then I'd expect the insurers to pay out. I admit that they are not on a public road but my own land however, I still feel that insurers would pay out.

Interestingly, I read an article about the perils of NOT cancelling insurance when selling a vehicle. Story concerns a man in Fife who sold his motorbike to an individual. Said individual killed himself riding the bike some days later. Transpires the dead man had recently been released from prison for motoring offences, was in the middle of a four year ban and was uninsured. The vendor had failed to cancel the insurance on the bike and, in law, his insurance company has to carry the can for the loss. Needless to say, the insurance company are not happy and are seeking to recover their losses from the vendor.

Lesson for today: cancel insurance as soon as you sell your vehicle.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/fife-man-faces-crippling-costs-after-motorbike-he-sold-was-involved-in-fatal-accident-1.554725

Edited By Michael Ramsay-Fraser on 02/10/2014 16:26:22

[Pete B]

Posted by Chris Anthony on 02/10/2014 15:00:40:

But if you happened to have a crash whilst doing this, would your insurer pay out? All policies I've ever seen require the car to be "road-worthy", and the only recognised indication of road-worthiness that I am aware of is an MOT certificate. Are you in fact uninsured by driving a car that does not have MOT?

Sorry if people find this irrelevant to the thread topic

Yes, it is a bit OT, Chris, but see here

Pete

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by Ben B on 02/10/2014 09:17:10:

If you buy a car how are you supposed to instantly road tax it? As an aside I taxed my car online Tuesday evening at 11pm - took 45 minutes!

You cant, but that's the reason there is a 14 day exemption period when any of the following apply:

Transfer of Keeper

At first registration

When a valid tax disc has been lost/stolen (now clearly redundant)

[avtur]

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 02/10/2014 16:53:43:

You cant, but that's the reason there is a 14 day exemption period when any of the following apply:

Transfer of Keeper

At first registration

When a valid tax disc has been lost/stolen (now clearly redundant)

Is that part of the new regulation?

That sounds familiar but only in regard to the previous regime where there was also an offence of "failure to display (a tax disc)". The 14 days was a pragmatic allowance given to allow the purchase of a physical disc. There is no longer anything to display.

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by avtur on 02/10/2014 19:04:31:

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 02/10/2014 16:53:43:

You cant, but that's the reason there is a 14 day exemption period when any of the following apply:

Transfer of Keeper

At first registration

When a valid tax disc has been lost/stolen (now clearly redundant)

Is that part of the new regulation?

That sounds familiar but only in regard to the previous regime where there was also an offence of "failure to display (a tax disc)". The 14 days was a pragmatic allowance given to allow the purchase of a physical disc. There is no longer anything to display.

There is No exemption is you are simply renewing your tax, the exemption only exists where a new keeper acquires a vehicle or a vehicle is first registered (that will in practice really only affect kit built cars and restorations)

There has been no change (as far as I know) to any regulations surrounding car tax other than moving to digital tax "disc" rather than paper ones

[PatMc]

Posted by Michael Ramsay-Fraser on 02/10/2014 14:30:11:

The strange thing is, I could drive my untaxed and MOTless car from my home in Perthshire to London (or anywhere else in the UK) provided I can prove I have it booked in for an MOT.

I learned this from a traffic cop who flew from London to buy one of my classic cars which was on a SORN. He booked an MOT over the phone and drove it home. The car was probably in better condition than most cars on the road anyway so slightly academic.

I don't think that is correct, I think if the traffic cop had been stopped en route more than a few miles from the garage he'd booked the test he'd have been done. IIRC the advice given near the bottom of this website page is basically the situation, I don't think "your nearest garage that provides MOT tests" is an absolute necessity but it must be within a reasonable distance of the point that the car starts from -
quote :

When can you drive without an MOT

To drive on a public road, a car must be taxed, insured and have a valid MOT. An exception to this however is if you are driving your vehicle to a pre-booked MOT test. This must be a direct route and to your nearest garage that provides MOT tests.

[PatMc]

Posted by Paul Adams on 02/10/2014 12:33:52:

Since the tax is not transferred, does that mean when you purchase a car from a private seller that:-

You need to tax it before you can drive it on the road?

Can you tax a car who is owed by someone else? If not how do you tax the car before you drive it home?

Is your insurance valid for an un-taxed car?

If you'd bought the car before Nov 1st you would have have had to arrange to insure the car before driving it. Now you will also have to arrange to tax it at the same time - no big deal AFAICS.

[Codename-John]

Posted by PatMc on 02/10/2014 21:02:52:

If you'd bought the car before Nov 1st you would have have had to arrange to insure the car before driving it. Now you will also have to arrange to tax it at the same time - no big deal AFAICS.

You can buy 1 day insurance if you just wanted to drive the car home, as I did with my last car, it had tax on but as I was selling my van at the time I bought the car, drove it home and then stored it off road until I sold my van and swapped the insurance around properly ( couldn't afford to insure 2 vehicles separately )

With the new system, you would have to tax it for at least a month just to drive it home if you needed too, and if you don't and are caught then you face having your car seized and crushed if you don't pay the extortionate fine / towing fee. There is no grace period, you are liable for taxing the vehicle from the day you transfer ownership, if you don't pay it or declare SORN, an automatic fine is issued, £80 I last heard

[Phil Claridge]

the dvla now have a contract with a company to check cars with out tax, they have 200 vans on the road in every county

[Bob Cotsford]

The easy answer in that situation - most insurance will cover you to drive a vehicle not belonging to you and not on hire, so you just agree with the seller that the point of sale is on completion of a successful test drive which is to your home. Up to that point the tax is still the responsibility of the seller and he is paid up for that month.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Surely these matters aren't timed to the second? The seller will have to notify the DVLA of the sale at some point reasonably soon after the transaction has been completed but you will have arranged your insurance from a nominal time on the day of sale. It would be nice to think that there would be some room for managing a transaction and that as long as the notifications were received on the same day, common sense would prevail.

But this is the DVLA we're talking about...

I know from bitter experience that their databases don't have a great record of being updated quickly and accurately, which cost me almost all of my treasured 1968 Bonneville after they happily taxed it for the thief (or his mythical friend) for some years...mind you, now that they will benefit financially, perhaps they will improve their efficiency in this regard?

Edited By Martin Harris on 03/10/2014 13:55:39

[Bob Cotsford]

I do agree these arguments are largely academic but when systems are computerised the only thing you can be sure of is a lack of common sense in the application of rules.

[Codename-John]

 

Posted by Bob Cotsford on 03/10/2014 11:32:27:

The easy answer in that situation - most insurance will cover you to drive a vehicle not belonging to you and not on hire, so you just agree with the seller that the point of sale is on completion of a successful test drive which is to your home. Up to that point the tax is still the responsibility of the seller and he is paid up for that month.

If you were the seller, would you lie to the DVLA etc for someone you may never have met before they turned up at your house to buy your car though ? what happens if they have an accident or get a ticket for something on the way home ? you have no way of checking their insurance and its still your responsibility until the change of owner, letting someone drive your car without insurance is an offence, and for tickets they could just turn around and say see, it says there on the V5 I didn't buy the car until after, the points / fine isn't mine

 

And you`re both still paying the tax for a full month when you wont be using the vehicle for part of it

Edited By Codename-John on 03/10/2014 17:27:18

[kc]

Surely the advantages of a tax disc are

a. we get something as a receipt for our money - proof that we have paid if the computer goes wrong.

b. members of the public can spot tax dodgers which will help prevent untaxed cars being parked on public roads. This can prevent those amatuer car dealers cluttering up our roads with their untaxed parked vehicles.

c. there is proof that it is any particular vehicle if a traffic warden notes the tax disc number as well as the reg no.

 

 

Don't forget to keep your old tax disc - it seems there are people who collect them.   Rarity value just increased!

Edited By kc on 03/10/2014 17:59:25