James Middleton Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 With retirement fast-approaching I'm planning a return to R/C flying. I cut-my-teeth back in the '70's on a pretty standard route...a rugged "slope-soarer" hand launched on a flat field, "throw it with your left hand, keep your right thumb on the elevator-stick with the aerial between you fingers...therefore mode-1, by default!!!" You get the picture? On to POWER..."Super 60". "Kamco Kadett", "Gangster 52", "Trueline Tiger",...then a few "Warbirds". "Grounded" on health grounds in the late '90's...ready, now, for a return! WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED? I have a brand new JR x388s (never touched). A brand new "Topflite P40" (never touched). A brand new "Saito FS-120" (never touched)....and a couple of brand new "Super-Tigre '51's" (never touched). ALL OF THIS APPEARS USELESS, NOW!!! I am toying with the idea of putting a 2.4 GHz module in the x388...NOW I'M LOST!!! I need some help... Would this work? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231403635873?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331404942885?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Now I have QUESTIONS...what's a digital servo?, what's an analogue servo? where do I find a wiring harness?...there's no mention of them, anywhere!!! Are the servo/receiver/battery plugs/sockets different from in the "old-Days"?... ALSO, I'm thinking of going electric...this presents a whole new can-of-worms...what's "kV"?...it was easy back-in-the-day when engines were in cubic inches and horsepower. I really hope someone can set me on the right heading, here. I feel i'm on the localiser, and I just reached the outer-marker... but I don't have the runway in sight, just yet!!! For information...I'm thinking of going small/lightweight...30-40 inch upto a couple of pounds weight. I like the look of some of the "Guillows" kits...converted to R/C...I'm not keen on "foamies"!!! Any comments/suggestions most welcome. [PS anybody interested in a P40 Warhawk and a 20cc four-stroke...both mint/boxed/unused/as new] James Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 21/02/2015 11:16:08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Shailer Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Hi James, Welcome back to the hobby, where are you based, as well as great advice you would get from here, is there any local flying clubs in your area you could join for more advice. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I had a 2.4 module in my JR PCM9,but recently sold both as the radio was full and only did the DSM2 protocol. Your models and engines aren't useless - especially the 120 Saito - if it is, I can buy it off you for a tenner if you want... The 388, just sell it and get a Spektrum DX6 or DX7, which will be more than enough. Also, as terminology, start buying model magazines such as RCM&E and RCMW, as the knowledge will build up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yes James, A lot certainly has happened. Many now use electrics, for greater reliability, and ease of use. I'd certainly get some good leccy reading material. Gibbs guides that you can find on the net are very good. He also writes in our favourite magazine A low KV means that the motor revs more slowly, with more torque (like a four stroke) A high KV will rev much faster, like a wee cox Ready to fly kits are everywhere. many fliers have never built an airframe . What a shame. I sense that you're an avid builder. 2.4 radios are pretty well standard. No more peg boards, very little if any interference. Now that is a very good thing On board radio has shrunk. Servos are tiny, as are recievers. Digital servos are faster, more accurate, and more expensive. I still often use standard Futaba analogue ones, but beware fakes from the web. Gullows kits are a wee bit ambitious, it depends how well you can fly. They are nice though, there's one beckoning me in the LMS. Re wiring harness, all you will need are the leads attached to the servos, and perhaps extensions, if you are going to put aileron servos out in each wing. A harness usually refers to a Y connector that allows you to join two sero leads, and only use only one plug on your reciever Also, your saito sounds lovely, and I'm sure you'll find a home for your Warhawk keep us informed ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 James, if you are looking at updating your JR tx to 2.4 (and there's no reason why you can't use it on 35 mhz) then have a look at the Frsky kit, available from various UK suppliers with back up support e.g. T9 Hobbysport Your Topfilte P40 would probably fetch a good price as well, the older quality kits are often sought after Welcome back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I have a few JR receivers left over and some xtals. Sold most of them, but if you intend to keep using the 388 and need some JR rx's,pm me and I'll see what I've got left in some of the planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Welcome back.... Digital V Analogue Servos - Analogue are the "old" style type, digital use a more modern method of positioning the movement more accurately but tend to use more power - you probably don't need them for sports flying Electric Power - Motors have vaious ratings - the important ones KV - Revolutions per Volt - ie a 800KV motor running on 11.1 Volts would in theory turn at 800x11.1 = 8880 Rpm (this is determined by the windings each motor have a designed in "prefered rpm" - note that a brushless motor will try to reach that speed regardless of what prop you put on, so it you put a over sized prop it will simply try and draw more current and might cook your speed controlled Watts - The power output, note this will vary with a) Voltage b) Prop size - and you will only get the stated watts on the correcy combo - it doesnt matter if you run them below the stated wattage but may harm them if above Voltage - Max volts they are designed for - over volts = over current - Magic Smoke usually LiPo's the "S" rating (1S, 2S, 3S etc) tells you how many cells of a nominal 3.7v there are - so a 3S LiPo gives 11.1v nominal (this will vary depending on the state of charge from 12.6 to 10.4 ish) The "C" rating is how much current you can draw without harming them ie 40C = 40amp I would be very carefull buying RX's of ebay - there are a lot of fakes out there that are VERY dodgy, if you want to use orange I would suggest getting them direct from Hobbyking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Welcome back James! Lots of good advice already given above. I'd suggest finding your local club(s) and go along to see them - contact them first if you can - so you can see at first hand what you've been reading about. Electric motors behave rather differently to ic. As already stated they will try their hardest to run at the theoretical speed determined by the battery voltage and the kv rating. If you put a bigger prop on the motor wil just draw more current trying to reach that speed. And it's the current that is the limiting factor - draw too much current and the motor will burn out. (Often referred to as letting out the magic smoke!) If you put a very small prop on then the motor will easily reach it's theoretical speed whilst drawing little current and producing little thrust. Slight clarification to the 'C' rating of batteries. 'C' refers to current whilst charging or discharging and is the same number as the battery capacity. So, for example, for a 2200mAh battery 1C is 2200mA - or 2.2A. 40C for that battery would be 88A. Have a hunt around on the forum - I'm sure there are some guides to electrics on here somewhere. And keep asking questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangster Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 James. You have listed a mouth watering set of kit. It is no more useless than it was in the 90s. That 388 is a cracking set of kit and you would pay a serious amount of money to get anything that has the feel of quality that it gives. I will put my tin hat on now and suggest you probably couldn't get a better set of gear these days. 35 MHz isn't obsolete in fact it has come into its own as so many people are on 2.4 so no waiting for the peg also less chance of switch on and shoot down. Those engines are fine too especially that Saito nothing could beat that either. Just be noise aware sites are more sensitive and some of the old engines with standard silencers are not acceptable on some sites As far as digital servos are concerned, they are not compulsory, nothing has changed with your old ones they will still work as well as they did back in the day and will be comparable with most if not all modern receivers If you want to go to 2.4 then the suggestion of using an Frsky module in your 388 as already suggested by a previous member is a good plan and gives best of both worlds. OldFashioned JR quality but on 2.4 and Frsky is very highly respected don't be put off by the cheap price seems good value and so reliable. if you are going to follow the electric trend don't try to eat the whole elephant of understanding it in one go. Choose your model and speak to a reputable supplier like BRC they will recommend and supply a suitable power train set up. You have listed some of my all time favourite models. Gangster,Trueline Tiger,Super60. In fact I am Flying a Super 60, building a Gangster 63 lite and still have the Tiger plan which I look at with great nostalgia and one day will build. Never had a Kadet but flew one a few times. Nice model. Welcome back mate but don't imagine that retirement will give you endless flying time, well that's what I thought but didn't seem to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Etherton Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Posted by gangster on 21/02/2015 10:59:11: James. You have listed a mouth watering set of kit. It is no more useless than it was in the 90s. That 388 is a cracking set of kit and you would pay a serious amount of money to get anything that has the feel of quality that it gives. I will put my tin hat on now and suggest you probably couldn't get a better set of gear these days. 35 MHz isn't obsolete in fact it has come into its own as so many people are on 2.4 so no waiting for the peg also less chance of switch on and shoot down. Those engines are fine too especially that Saito nothing could beat that either. Just be noise aware sites are more sensitive and some of the old engines with standard silencers are not acceptable on some sites As far as digital servos are concerned, they are not compulsory, nothing has changed with your old ones they will still work as well as they did back in the day and will be comparable with most if not all modern receivers If you want to go to 2.4 then the suggestion of using an Frsky module in your 388 as already suggested by a previous member is a good plan and gives best of both worlds. OldFashioned JR quality but on 2.4 and Frsky is very highly respected don't be put off by the cheap price seems good value and so reliable. if you are going to follow the electric trend don't try to eat the whole elephant of understanding it in one go. Choose your model and speak to a reputable supplier like BRC they will recommend and supply a suitable power train set up. You have listed some of my all time favourite models. Gangster,Trueline Tiger,Super60. In fact I am Flying a Super 60, building a Gangster 63 lite and still have the Tiger plan which I look at with great nostalgia and one day will build. Never had a Kadet but flew one a few times. Nice model. Welcome back mate but don't imagine that retirement will give you endless flying time, well that's what I thought but didn't seem to work. Ditto everthing you have just said. Go with the advice for electrical motors,escapement and props from the manufacturer, or it will do your head in. Just finished a Gangster 63 lite myself with an irvine 40 up front. Waiting for good weather to maiden it Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 As others have already said - nothing wrong with 35 MHz! Indeed, now everyone has moved onto 2.4 GHz, you'll probably have the band pretty much to yourself! If you really feel the need to go 2.4 GHz, do look at the FrSky stuff. I've been using it for a couple of years now, and its at least as reliable as anything else I've ever used - and the receivers are as cheap as chips! Don't worry too much about the "digital" vs "analogue" servo argument. Those names are seriously misleading anyway! "Digital" servos tend to respond more quickly, but you would need to be a champion heli pilot to tell the difference in the real world! Unless you are planning to take on the elite in either fixed-wing or heli aerobatics, the extra cost of "digitals" really isn't worth it. Just make sure you have servos with enough ooomph for the job in hand! If your kit has been lying around unused for a number of years, I would strongly recommend replacing the battery packs - both Tx and Rx! Also use a good quality switch harness in the airborne side of the system. That way lies much happiness! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I don't think anyone mentioned the extra safety measures you need with electric --beware they can start instantly by just touching the throttle stick or even by going into the memory to adjust something. With battery connected the prop is always LIVE! Setting up the model is done with the prop removed. If you use 35 mhz then someone else switching on that frequency can cause your model to start up if the battery is connected and roar around the pits and cause injury! It can crash without actually flying..... Some electric motors ( often electric ducted fan) interfere with 35 Mhz but not 2.4Ghz. But electric is the way to go. In many clubs this means extra flying times for quiet electric models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will -0 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Hi, I had a few years break a while back and had a similar impression on return. However, it turns out that I can have just as much fun flying my glow models on 35mhz now as I did 10 years ago. Just because there's newer stuff doesn't make the old stuff any less fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 there's a good Electric primer here, which covers most things: **LINK** power requirements are generally based on watts/lb & desired performance: • 50-70 watts per pound; Minimum level of power for decent performance, good for lightly loaded slow flyer and park flyer models • 70-90 watts per pound; Trainer and slow flying scale models • 90-110 watts per pound; Sport aerobatic and fast flying scale models • 110-130 watts per pound; Advanced aerobatic and high-speed models • 130-150 watts per pound; Lightly loaded 3D models and ducted fans • 150-200+ watts per pound; Unlimited performance 3D and aerobatic models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myk Riley Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 James, welcome along! I too have returned after a break, and I will freely admit it seems mega daunting when you first look at it. However, as many of the above say, the info on here will sort you out. Do not worry too much where you start, though the beginners bit really helps, you will soon get the hang of it. If you can remember back to your early days of ic and flying, you must have encountered terms then that puzzled you. This is simply the same. Lots of new words and abbreviations, but think of it this way.... They still have whirly things on the front or some other launching system, and magic bits inside that convert thumb movements to control movements.... it's just confusing at first. Best of luck with the puzzling Myk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Fledermaus Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 James, There is no need to cross to the Dark Side unless you want to. IC still has its followers so why involve yourself in the extra cost of going electric. Each has it's pros and cons and there are many forum members who will take the Saito off you at the right price so that should tell you something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 If you go electric please remember the saftey precautions - as someone says as soon as the LiPo is connected its LIVE and unlike IC which will usually stall and stop when the prop hits something - even your cheap end brushless moter just see's that as a challenge and responds by drawing more current to cut through the obstruction (also known as your arm, finger, leg!) Set it up with the prop removed and make sure your XT is switched on (and on the correct model) before connecting a LiPo - an arming plug is also a damm good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 And James, Don't run your Saito without a prop ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Middleton Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thank you for all your replies; they number far beyond my expectations. At this stage I feel inclined to retain my X388s and fit a 2.4 GHz module, thanks for all the advice in that direction. (I have ordered a FrSky DJT and a D8R-11 Rx). I have to say I feel obliged to go electric...BUT I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE LOTS OF NOISE and leave "SMOKE"-TRAILS IN-THE-SKY at some time in the future! Thanks again to all of you. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatscoleymo Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 James - I did the same with my x388 - just swapped modules to change between 35meg and 2.4. Any new rx. I bought were 2.4, but still allowed me to fly my old stuff on 35meg with changover on the tx being seconds. Have fun, Fats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Happily your Saito 120 is far from obsolete & will I'm sure provide you many years of faultless service & smoke trails..... If you go down the electric route then I would suggest that a 2.4GHz set is the best option.....as others have said there is nothing wrong with 35MHz but it does seem less affected by any EMI from an electric powertrain...... Oh & welcome back to the hobby...enjoy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Posted by Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 22/02/2015 21:59:02: Happily your Saito 120 is far from obsolete & will I'm sure provide you many years of faultless service & smoke trails..... If you go down the electric route then I would suggest that a 2.4GHz set is the best option.....as others have said there is nothing wrong with 35MHz but it does seem less affected by any EMI from an electric powertrain...... Oh & welcome back to the hobby...enjoy!! In case there is any confusion - 2.4 is LESS affected (almost imune in fact) to EMI than 35 which can suffer badly fron motor/ESC interference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Good point Dave....my post reads like 35MHz is is less affected doesn't it... 35MHz can work with electric set ups bit its a bit hit & miss & some set ups just don't work on 35MHz no matter what you do.....conversely I've never had a problem with an electric set up on 2.4GHz.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaunie Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Oh my word, another returnee! Welcome James you'll be at home here with the rest of us. Enjoy learning about the technical progress. As others have said, all your gear is still as good as it ever was, just check for black wire disease and don't trust old batteries. Ps. If you don't want that old fashioned Saito, I'll take it off your hands Shaunie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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