Martin McIntosh Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Anyone else started this yet? Got as far as sourcing the retract parts and building them up, also used up most of a 4`x1` sheet of light ply making some of the formers. Need a source for the old Perkins 3 1/2" uncut spinners as I would prefer these to ABS ones. I shall be using the 14x7 three blade props, NTM prop drive 50/50 580kV motors and Zippy Compact 5800mA/h batteries. The version will be a bomber with the perspex type nose. A little astounded at the price of the recommended parts, not that I shall be using many of them. Complete pack - £259 Retracts - £215 Pilots - £10 Motors - £122 Mounts - £9.80 ESCs - £96.89 Props - £29 Batts - £95.98 UBEC - £9.99 Rx batt - £16.99 Servos and leads - £76.23 This comes to £940.88 plus postage. Ouch! My ARTF Xcaliber turbine plus posh retracts only cost about that much. You do, of course, get a `free` plan in the mag. though. Glad that I am a trad. modeller and can do it for a fraction of this. I cannot realistically see many people going down this route. Sorry Tony. Great model though and I am informed that the performance is spot on. Edited By Martin McIntosh on 04/11/2015 22:34:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think you'll be starting before me Martin so I'll be following your thread. I've got a couple of builds to finish and a couple of repairs to do before I can get started but like you I expect the build to be a fraction of the "list" price! Already got suitable LiPo's and after using them in a couple of recent models I'll be using HobbyKing retracts as I'm quite happy at the quality (and price) I plan to build the fighter version as I like lots of guns on my warbirds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve c Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I'm going to have a go at this ,it will be my first build so I will be using the complete pack ,but will also use hobbyking retracts as that is what looks like are the supplied ones anyway . Also motors and esc will be hobbyking as will the battery Just need to finish my new workshop before I can get started ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I was also very surprised with the total price. Especially when the larger Brian Taylor mossie is considerably cheaper and includes ali spinners, F/G cowls and doors etc etc. http://gb.trapletshop.com/dh98-mosquito-prxvi-81 I would love to build one, but i think its just not quite big enough. The 81'' version is more what i would be after. Edited By Jon Harper on 05/11/2015 08:50:27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Meade Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 As above - I really wanted to build this one, but just a touch too small. Taylor or Reeves for me I think. Excellent work by Tony on the plan and the look of the model by the way. I shall still be watching all of your build threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightypeesh Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Hi Martin. Could you please not do things like breaking down how much it costs to build a plane - wives may be reading!!! I like trad building because I can smuggle a whole aircraft into the house in small packages You have also forgotten the cost of coverings, adhesives, abrasives and paint, along with rods, clevices, hinges........ Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Steve c, I should pick something rather simpler if you have not built before since I anticipate some complex work. Jon, I tried the Taylor 81". It was so fiddly and flimsy that I scrapped the wing and gave up on it. Still got the mouldings and may try to cut down the nose to fit this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 BT models are very lightly built and too complex for my taste, which is why i have not bought one. However, Tony says he can scale up any of his plans but cant supply a canopy. so all we need is to ask for a scaled up version of the plans and buy the BT canopy and spinners. The cowls are the wrong shape for the FB MkVI tony did but the cowls are not to traumatic to make. Edited By Jon Harper on 05/11/2015 10:37:11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Nijhuis Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yes it certainly adds up I agree, but as the starting point is a free plan, you can't argue with that....The great thing about a free plan is doesn't preclude any one from having a go, irrespective of financial limitation....Already a number of builder are cracking on using just the free plan and no doubt they will succeed at a fraction of the price...good on em I say...the more the merrier. The Brain Taylor mossi is some what cheaper but you only get the formers and ribs and no wood stock or wing tubes so add another £100 to the Traplet price, and you'll get a comparable price.....The BT Model is also 'of its time' and never truly a production plan.....A lovely model but I gave up building one as the complexity was frustrating... Simple designs to the masses...that's my philosophy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Jones Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Martin, I agree that the prices are extortionate which is why I was going to plan build and source what I could at more sensible prices. I have several models in this price range but over £1k for one this size is, in my view, just too much. Having looked at the plan I've decided not to go ahead so if anyone wants the below then make me an offer, sold as one lot only, I will not split. RCM&E special with the plan, vac form set of canopy, nose and spinners, 2 x pilots from TND and 2 x recommended props from 4-max Tony, how much flight testing was done before the plan was published? My reason for not going ahead is that I have concerns that the main joiner doesn't go into the outer wing panels anywhere near enough, just two rib bays. For this weight of model I think it needs to be done differently, only my view you understand. Your Vulcan wing failing the same way was the nail in the coffin for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Tony, i cant argue with the simple design part! The BT plans are far too complex for most and as i bought the special eddition with your plan in it i can see that the construction is very simple by comparison. I will have to look again at my plan regarding the joining tubes but if memory serves there are some beefy old main spars in there to take the load. Its not a 3d machine so i wouldnt expect massive loads on it :\ Anyway, Tony how much would it be for a plan scaled up to 81 inches, and would you be able to provide laser cut parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 Glad to see that even Tony gave up on the BT version for the same reason I did. The short wing tubes attracted my attention too and am looking into ways to extend them a bit. I have two other models with tubes and they must be very long for a reason. Cracking on with the formers but eagerly await the arrival of the full plan so that I can get a better idea of what other bits I need before ordering the rest of the wood. Retiring fully at the end of this month so this should keep me happy for a little while. Just need a bigger house/shed/hangar or sell a lot of models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Nijhuis Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Jon, regarding the 81" plan, it would be around the £60 mark i would guess...we wouldn't be able to cut CNC part for a one off...the cost would be prohibitive!...your comments regarding the spar are spot on as i will explain to Matt Matt regarding you comments....running a wing tube through three ribs is fine as long as the outer tube is hard up and bonded against main spar and the sheer webbing to create a integral spar where the load is transferred seamlessly from the tube to the wooden spars. This is the key to load spreading...and that's exactly what has been done here if you look! If the spar was sitting free in the middle of the ribs (like some other designs) then I would agree you would need at least a four ribs span but that's not the case here....as for my prototype Vulcan you mentioned, i think that proves I test pretty thoroughly!.... Martin, If you wish to extend the outer spar tube through into W4 to give yourself reassurance, then best do it when the wing is being built, open over the plan so you can slide the tube further and mark the position on to W4 and then cut a hole accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Tony, Yes, that was the idea. I may also transfer the servos to the outer flaps to enable a longer rear tube if the section is thick enough at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Nijhuis Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Martin, just for clarity, if you extend the main spar outer phenolic tube, it will clip the bottom edge of W4...you may want to stop this tube 30mm before W4 and just extend the ali tube into W4.....its up to you...what I would say is make sure you put a good bead of epoxy where the phenolic tube butts the sheer webbing. As for the rear tube, its only job is to stop the wing rotating...believe it or not, the tube its some what overkill as I have seen other designs using just a inch long dowel (which appears to work ok). enjoy the build.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 OK, thanks for that Tony. Obviously not got as far as measuring where the tube meets W4 since I am still cutting loads of ply. I had not looked closely enough to realise that the main tube is bonded to the spar which is not the case with the other models mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Got some cutting to do for a PSS JP and a DH108 Swallow so I might start cutting parts for the Mossie too whilst the scroll saw and sander is out. No where near ready to start building it yet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Just to bore you, here are some pics of the parts cut out so far and the bits which will be fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Adams Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hi Tony and Martin, How much would you think that the Mossie bare airframe could be built for from mag plan, and equipping with motors batterys and retracts from alternative sources if shopping on a budget and how would it compare to the list above? Sorry to ask the questions about this and I know things will vary according to where people shop and price fluctuations etc,the Mossie like spit,lanc and hurricane are the sort of planes that almost all modellers want to aspire to but can often be put off buy costs. I like that Tony says that any of his models can be within most peoples budgets and of course he's right, we wouldnt have the yearly mag special otherwise and for that we are all greatful for Tonys hard work. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hi Steve, This would be an almost impossible task at this stage and I would probably not build another model if I totted up the cost each time. Some parts I happen to have kicking about anyway, such as the correct retract units, esc`s, servos, a stock of wood, paint etc. There are loads of other bits to take into consideration such as covering, a lot of c.a., aliphatic, epoxy, carbon rod, hinges: the list is never ending with any model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKade Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Posted by Martin McIntosh on 08/11/2015 10:05:23: There are loads of other bits to take into consideration such as covering, a lot of c.a., aliphatic, epoxy, carbon rod, hinges: the list is never ending with any model. Pedantic response: surely it does end? Unless you plan to crash alot!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 I think most people would have taken that as a figure of speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Now got all the wing ribs and fus. spines cut. The scroll saw has had to work overtime. Realised that my u/c is too narrow using the wheels I had to hand but it will suffice for now. Easily corrected later and from past experience the width is limited on a Mossie. Still awaiting the full plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 You're not hanging around then Martin! I might keep a running cost log when I start mine just to see what the real damage to the wallet is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Just received the full plan and vacforms. Will only use the canopy. The plan seems to be well laid out and shows both wings and a complete fus. so certainly worth having. Now I can go ahead and order the rest of the wood which I do not have in stock. Don`t like hanging about once I have started something but am in no rush. I bought the Flyingzone Publications Mosquito Explored CD rom which should help. (you also get a free Halifax one). I have added wiring holes to the outer ribs should I decide to fit navigation lights but it will have to be a homemade system since the cost of commercial ones I have looked at is ridiculous. Vacforming the lights should be, erm, interesting. From what little I have looked at on the CD, the landing light position is not obvious. Back to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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