Electric Cars.

[Learner]

2 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

To expand on my pictorial answer, it can be as simple or complicated as you want to make it.  For many people, it’s no more difficult than charging a mobile phone but Ron, Matty and others are discussing more complicated systems which can provide integration between solar charging, buying from and selling power to the grid and automating car charging at times to maximise the cost benefits.  
 

Simply plugging the car into a 13A socket will still give you much cheaper energy than an IC car’s fuel.  A dedicated 7kW charger is much faster if you need regular top ups for commuting etc. and can give access to cheaper tariffs with some power suppliers. 

How long would it take to charge a basic ev with a 13 amp plug?

[Ron Gray]

Thanks for that Matty, when on Go, to prevent battery draw I used to set the charge time for the EV to finish before charging the solar batteries. I also couldn't charge both at the same time as the Zappi would reduce the EV charge to 1.4kW. I've since sorted that out but now that I've changed to IOGo I really do need to automate charging!

39 minutes ago, MattyB said:

Going on a.n.other device to a Pi (like the green) is I think the right option. Pi's are very clever little things, but if you start running a lot on one they can start to get hot and unreliable apparently. It was cheaper and simpler for me to just buy a secondhand mini PC for ~£70 off ebay - it was very slightly more involved to setup, but has lots more power and storage and should run HA reliably (and silently) for many years to come

My Pi is housed an Argon case and in the 4 years that I've been running it it doesn't get hot, but to be fair it's not really taxed that much! My son's setup is also on Pi and he too hasn't got overheating problems (good cooling!) despite it being pushed quite hard and no reliability problems either. 

[Ron Gray]

2 minutes ago, Learner said:

How long would it take to charge a basic ev with a 13 amp plug?

Depends how much charge you put in (obvs) but as a rough guide, my EV would take 30+ hours to take it from 20% to 80%. So top up charges each day using cheap leccy (overnight) would be the way to go (well that's what I did before I had my charger installed.

[Learner]

3 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Depends how much charge you put in (obvs) but as a rough guide, my EV would take 30+ hours to take it from 20% to 80%. So top up charges each day using cheap leccy (overnight) would be the way to go (well that's what I did before I had my charger installed.

So if say I did 3 days at 20 miles a day and 1 day of 60 miles, top up charging every night through a 13 amp plug would suffice.

What wattage would that pull, just a bit concerned my aged fuse box wouldnt cope!

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Interesting report from Renault, their new R 5 electric 'should' come out with a special program so that you can use its battery to stock electric

 that can also be reversed to power your house when needed, 😇

 

That will save £££ of stocking useless expensive battery's in your garage.

[MattyB]

21 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Thanks for that Matty, when on Go, to prevent battery draw I used to set the charge time for the EV to finish before charging the solar batteries. I also couldn't charge both at the same time as the Zappi would reduce the EV charge to 1.4kW. I've since sorted that out but now that I've changed to IOGo I really do need to automate charging!

 

For me the key is to avoid discharging the home battery in high amp situations like EV charging, as a) it msut stress the battery and inverter more, b) it's inefficient, and c) it puts cycles on the battery. I know some will disagree, but I have always been sceptical of those who said "get a bigger home battery, force chafre it off-peak then discharge it back to the grid at peak times". When I saw this guys maths it was enough for me, so we don't do any forced discharge now - the battery is jsut a pure backup to the house at peak times and during the night.

 

 

[MattyB]

17 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Interesting report from Renault, their new R 5 electric 'should' come out with a special program so that you can use its battery to stock electric that can also be reversed to power your house when needed, 😇

 

That will save £££ of stocking useless expensive battery's in your garage.

 

V2L is great in concept, but it does rather rely on a having an EV on the drive and plugged in at all the times you need it. It also doesn't enable those of us with solar to capture that excess generated to use later. Sure, with tariffs as they are right now the financiasl for a home battery may not be quite as compelling as 12 months ago, but in terms of energy independance they are great, and I personally have't paid for a single kwh of peak time electricity in over a year which feels pretty damn good to me. YMMV.

[Ron Gray]

45 minutes ago, Learner said:

What wattage would that pull

My calcs were based on 1.4kW

[Don Fry]

Yea, commercial fusion power has been 5 years down the road for 50 years. Tell me more about sodium sulphur batteries?

 Solid state battery,  it may come, or might not. when the money men say build the giga factory, now. Then we can take notice.

Reality, not FUD. 
 

I also note with some pessimism, average pollution of a car produced in 2023 ( that’s all fuel sources) , is higher than in a car produced in 2013. Cos there are still getting bigger/ heavier was the opinion of the publisher. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

My MG5 charges at between 1.8 and 1.9 kW via a 13A socket. 
 

Remember Learner, a normal charge is to 80% capacity so if I run down to, typically, 50% - often a week’s worth - I’m looking at only adding 30% of @ 60kWh i.e. 18kWh so it easily charges overnight.  My weekly mileage is quite low at present but if I’m planning a longer trip then it just takes a little planning to do a full charge to terminate shortly before leaving home so that the battery doesn’t sit at 100% for very long. 

[IDD15]

15 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

Yea, commercial fusion power has been 5 years down the road for 50 years. Tell me more about sodium sulphur batteries?

 Solid state battery,  it may come, or might not. when the money men say build the giga factory, now. Then we can take notice.

Reality, not FUD. 
 

I also note with some pessimism, average pollution of a car produced in 2023 ( that’s all fuel sources) , is higher than in a car produced in 2013. Cos there are still getting bigger/ heavier was the opinion of the publisher. 

TBH I’ve not seen anything recently re sodium batteries since I posted those links a little while ago. But this is all in China for now…

 

This mob have just opened their new factory for solid state batteries and have allegedly shipped production samples to car manufacturers. So we’re getting there.

 

US solid state battery manufacturing

 

To be fair when this thread started along time ago the prediction at the time was that solid state batteries for EV’s would not be around till 2025… So patience Glasshopper 😃

hth

idd

 

 

[Don Fry]

Thanks IDD. I have read with interest that press release from the US research group. They don’t mention factory, or numbers spent on the factory, just a global 50 million dollars to cover it and the research facility. Sounds like a product development facility. 50 million does not build a factory. 
I am an old cynic I know, but as I was tought, cynics don’t get disappointed. I will continue to wait patiently. 

[Frank Skilbeck]

2 hours ago, Learner said:

How long would it take to charge a basic ev with a 13 amp plug?

You'll get around 2.2 kw, so every hour that would be around 9 miles range added every hour.

 

When we first got our Mini we charged on a 3 pin plug, one charge took 8 hours to go from 40% to 95%, but the Mini is a small battery.

[Frank Skilbeck]

BTW I would not recommend leaving an EV on charge on a standard 13amp socket overnight, they are drawing 10 amps continuous and the socket will get warm, if the socket/ wiring is not in perfect condition then it could catch fire. The standard wallbox has additional protection built in and if installed by a competent electrician will not be connected via your consumer unit but wired up with it's own breaker and protection etc and also monitor the total feed to the house and disconnect the car if the total load reaches the household limit.

[Learner]

So I've now had 3 different answers to my watts question and a yes and a no to charging by 13 amp plug.

Very straightforward.

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

In my case, I have an external IP66 socket protected by an additional 27A 30mA RCCB from the consumer unit which are both located in the outside porch.  I took the precaution of changing the socket to an unswitched version as it reduces the potential for overheating. 
 

I wouldn’t recommend slinging an extension lead out of a bedroom window!

 

The charging current differences would be due to individual car charger/battery specifications - the small difference in charge rate’s isn’t particularly significant as all are actually below the nominal 10A

[Ron Gray]

@LearnerSarcasm gets you nowhere. You’ve received answers about charging rates which vary, because they do, there is no fixed charge rate, so look back at the above and use the range 1.4kW - 2.2kW. As far as I can see no one said no to using a 13a plug to charge, just a recommendation not to leave it plugged in overnight.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Ron Gray

[Learner]

You can perceive it as sarcasm but its still a fact that its not straighforward for some without your or your sons intelligence.

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

You’re still missing the point Learner.  It’s like a home PC - you can simply browse the internet, play Solitaire and send the odd email or you can delve into the intricacies of CAD and programming languages. Your choice…
 

Similarly an electric car can just be plugged into a charger and used or you can integrate it into a complex home management system. 
 

They are really not difficult in any way.  Just different to the weekly trip to the petrol station. 

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Learner said:

You can perceive it as sarcasm but its still a fact that its not straighforward for some without your or your sons intelligence.

 

It is perfectly straightforward if you are prepared to a small amount of research - 10 seconds on Google would have got you any number of answers that are extremely comprehensive from sites dedicated to EVs (here's a good example). Instead you chose to ask the question of some well meaning EV owners on a RC flying forum, then criticised them because their answers didn't exactly align in every respect. However, Ron is absolutely right - there is nothing inaccurate about any of the posts on this page, it's just that different cars will charge at different rates off a granny plug.

 

This rather reminds me of those who who have used IC power in their models and complain that electric is "too complicated" to  understand. In reality there are only a small number of variables you have to understand to select an appropriate electric powertrain, and far, far fewer problems that would prevent it from running once it's been installed in comparison to IC. However, if you have run IC all your life and already understand the variables and techniques needed to run them effectively (carb setup, tank position, fuel type, cooling setup, mounting type, silencer setup, tank plumbing, starting technique...) then learning something new and different will seem like a faff when you could set up and operate a new IC model in your sleep. The same is true in the opposite direction - it would be far harder for me to acquire all the learning to kit out a new IC model for the first time than it would to install an electric powertrain, as I already know everything I need to do the latter.

 

The key to transitioning in either direction is accepting that a) some of your previous knowledge will no longer be applicable, and b) that you'll have to do a small amount of research and learn something new in order to be successful. There is lots of research out there that most people find a) pretty difficult to accept, especially where the established knowledge is long held (like in the case of fueling and operating an ICE vehicle). That's not really an issue though in thie case - if moving from ICE to an EV or PHEViisn't for you right now, then don't bother - no-one is forcing you to go EV. Just don't criticise those who want to maximise the potential of this technology to minimise costs, maximise efficiency and reduce carbon use - that is their choice to do so.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by MattyB

[Tim Kearsley]

Absolutely agree with what you say @MattyB.  I go back to what I said in another post - there are some individuals who, for whatever reason, have decided they don't like the concept of electric cars and seek to constantly point out any negative aspects of EV ownership and try to pull to pieces any positives.  I lost the will to keep debating with such individuals some time ago.

[Frank Skilbeck]

It's a lot simpler than some programmable transmitters 😀

[Ron Gray]

Now that's interesting (well it is to me!), my solar batteries have fully charged in today's lovely bright sunshine (no I haven't been out flying - WA 😍) and as the EV is plugged in and there is a cheap leccy slot, IOGo has decided to charge the EV. Now previously on Boost or Fast charge the Zappi has taken power from wherever it can get it, including the solar batteries but as you can see from this screen shot the Zappi is pushing 6.5kW into the EV and all from the grid (as is the house load - dehumidifier drying out part of the cottage flooded last week).

 

[Learner]

.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Learner

[Gary Manuel]

27 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Now that's interesting (well it is to me!), my solar batteries have fully charged in today's lovely bright sunshine (no I haven't been out flying - WA 😍) and as the EV is plugged in and there is a cheap leccy slot, IOGo has decided to charge the EV. Now previously on Boost or Fast charge the Zappi has taken power from wherever it can get it, including the solar batteries but as you can see from this screen shot the Zappi is pushing 6.5kW into the EV and all from the grid (as is the house load - dehumidifier drying out part of the cottage flooded last week).

 

That's the beauty of Intelligent Octopus.
 

Edit - P.S. If you want to avoid charging your EV from your house batteries, Just move where it takes its supply to the grid side of your inverter/battery current transformer (Henley Blocks). EV charger becomes invisible to the inverter.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Gary Manuel