FCC proposes $2.8m fine against Hobbyking for marketing non-compliant drone transmitters

[Geoff S]

Posted by Steve J on 24/07/2020 14:00:50:

Posted by Graham Davies 3 on 24/07/2020 12:30:04:

In my experience, even upstanding Chinese companies can fall foul of less upstanding compliance agencies!

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt!

I have worked in the PRC and elsewhere in Asia. I have seen the attitude of some companies to IP and QA/QC. I think that the time for giving them the benefit of the doubt has long gone.

Edited By Steve J on 24/07/2020 14:01:11

I don't doubt what you say but are you also implying that no companies in Europe/USA/UK have similar attitudes?

A friend of mine was largely responsible for setting up a manufacturing facility for Rolls-Royce in Xian and lived in China for several years. He had great respect for their abilities and maintained contact with Chinese managers and engineers. Sadly he died a couple of years ago but the emails from his former Chinese colleagues read out at his funeral spoke volumes for the mutual respect.

Geoff

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Test Pilot]

Probably won't be a popular point of view on here, but I hope this signals the end of Hobbyking.

They have flooded the model market with cheap, often poor quality products (not all I'll concede) and been instrumental in sending many UK (and other - think Robbe and Graupner) model suppliers to the wall. Their customer service by all accounts is pretty shocking, unlike my local shop who like most UK shops are great.

If all the cheap rubbish disappears from the market, the UK model trade - shops, manufacturers and distributors may have the future they deserve. We may even see some new ones appear.

[KiwiKid]

I would expect that HK had the USA operation "ring fenced" to contain the damage to those companies. Anthony Hand fled USA some time ago and stated that the USA operation did not have funds to pay the fine. The USA warehouse closed yesterday and people with orders pending are scrambling to get their money back. HK USA will probably go Chapter 11 and any incoming deliveries will be seized by customs.

[Test Pilot]

Posted by KiwiKid on 24/07/2020 22:45:43:

I would expect that HK had the USA operation "ring fenced" to contain the damage to those companies. Anthony Hand fled USA some time ago and stated that the USA operation did not have funds to pay the fine. The USA warehouse closed yesterday and people with orders pending are scrambling to get their money back. HK USA will probably go Chapter 11 and any incoming deliveries will be seized by customs.

Hopefully then with the loss of the US market, which let's face it is Huge, the whole operation ceases to be viable.

[Jesus Cardin]

Do you think it is just a coincidence that HobbyKing suffers from low stock and bad service to customers just since it all started in 2018?

Probably it will be the end of HobbyKing as "Test Pilot" suggests but in no way it will be the start of a new era to old models shops and distributors. I am sure that just in a few days a new firm -HobbyQueen, perhaps?- will surface with, oh!, those same products and prices offered now but just rebranded.....

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Brian Cooper]

A decent lawyer will get Hobbyking off the hook by explaining HK's business model, which is: Whenever anyone wants something, it is HK policy to be out of stock. . . Therefore they cannot possibly have sold any of the dodgy equipment.

B.C.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 25/07/2020 00:23:24:

Posted by Test Pilot on 24/07/2020 22:35:13:

Probably won't be a popular point of view on here, but I hope this signals the end of Hobbyking.

They have flooded the model market with cheap, often poor quality products (not all I'll concede) and been instrumental in sending many UK (and other - think Robbe and Graupner) model suppliers to the wall. Their customer service by all accounts is pretty shocking, unlike my local shop who like most UK shops are great.

If all the cheap rubbish disappears from the market, the UK model trade - shops, manufacturers and distributors may have the future they deserve. We may even see some new ones appear.

Despite what some people think, Hobbyking and ASP have done very little good for the hobby of model aviation.

Yes people have been spoilt with cheap product but on too many occasions it was of poor quality (not always), but whilst this was taking place the established manufacturers having to pay taxes, pensions, sick pay and holiday pay and with little or no government support just packed up and went off to do something else.

Now we are seeing that some Chinese manufacturers like ASP have lost interest in this drive to the bottom and stopped trading. Hobbyking are in a spot of bother as a court has decided that they broke certain FCC regulations and have hit HK with a punitive heavy fine, which could rock them to the core.

So we can now say with no fear of contradiction that Hobbyking broke laws in their biggest market, now all we need to know is how many laws they broke and in how small a market !!

 

In this hobby quality has gone entirely out the window. more than any other hobby I know.

Where is Oliver, Eta, K&B, OPS, Veco, Super Tigre?

Where is Pete Russell, Tuthill/Walker, Bob Palmer, John O'Donnell, Ken Willard, H J Towner, Eric Coasby?

Where is the Graupner Cirrus,  the Ta 152, Contest Kits, the Multiplex Alpina, the Kwik-flii?

Where is Orbit, Flight Link, Sampey, Kraft or Pro Line? (I still fly a Pro Line Competition 7, modified to 2.4)

Now planes are made out of washing machine packing material or splintery over-fertiliised supposed 'balsa wood' stuck loosely together by children using some ineffective glue. And 'giants' of the hobby no longer exist, just a few sponsored previously unknown nonentities  with a very short life.

It's not just nostalgia, it is getting very difficult to find good stuff and  designers/modellers you can truly respect and who's efforts you can aspire to.  'Good' modelling is now  mostly  "Mine's bigger than yours".

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 25/07/2020 02:30:07

[ken anderson.]

I'm afraid we cant go back to "the good old days".....all the mentioned companies will never come back, they were from a different era ….and like it or lump it ,hobbyking is a part of the new world...the instant gratification modern world....ok H/K get complaints but they also get a lot of praise, and I'm one of the happy customers of there's....and I hope they don't go under or whatever

ken anderson...ne...1.hobbyking dept.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Cuban8]

The big UK distributors of Far Eastern modelling goods i.e the middle men, held sway over the modelling market for many years and did very nicely in the past thank you very much. As soon as they had the chance to ditch home-grown manufactured radios and engines and other bits (in the UK and USA in particular) they couldn't wait to send their (our) money to Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam and mainland China and charge us handsomely for the cheap goods. But we sucked it up. Shopping around for the best prices was a waste of time.

Before Hobby King and prior to the internet, a few well known retailers that us oldies will remember from the 1970's and 80's who had the temerity to offer discounts or would circumvent the usual import channels and offer the same stuff but cheaper (have a look in some old magazines of the time) upset that little party and naturally those who had seen their markets totally under their control previously, were (are?) not happy. No change really, with the internet, just a much bigger scale of operation.

[Erfolg]

I do not see any difference between purchasing from HK or from many UK retailers other than the sticky label. Oh, that is one has a sticky label with Turnigy, another has a different brand name, ah, that is other than the price.

I just do not recognise the time when the UK trade supplied fine kits, that went together well, or that all the accessories were of the finest quality.

If HK disappears, and another similar company emerges in Hong Kong and or the UK, please let me know. Another very satisfied HK customer.

It is not just the USA that is protectionist, Michel Barnier threatened the UK with Tariffs, if the UK does not accept EU terms. The observations with respect to the USA pursuing non USA business via the courts has been widely reported and noted as our earlier poster identified. On that basis I do not have any rose tinted glasses about any one.

I take the view, it is up to the competition to do better than HK.

[brokenenglish]

Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 25/07/2020 02:09:14:
Where is Pete Russell, Tuthill/Walker, Bob Palmer, John O'Donnell, Ken Willard, H J Towner, Eric Coasby?

Or even John Coasby...

I have to say I'm a very satisfied HK Europe customer.

Living out in the sticks, I started teaching myself to fly 8 years ago. The results have exceeded my most optimistic hopes, and I don't think I would have made that progress without HK. 

Edited By brokenenglish on 03/08/2020 21:52:38

Edited By brokenenglish on 03/08/2020 21:53:27

[Tony Richardson]

I have to agree with Erfolg on some points, much of the product sold by HK was manufactured by the same company that supplied some of the more higher priced well known brands,. Price is not always an indicator of quality, FrSky produce some good transmitters for a reasonable price - not a HK specific product I know - just an example.

As for the US being protectionist, you have to look at the President and his administrations trade war with china to understand where this is coming from, this to will most likely pass with the passage of time. I hope so as a lot of product from HK usa was good quality and available relatively quickly.

[Edgeflyer]

Is it me, or has our hobby fallen foul of the buy it ready made, use it, break it, throw it away culture?

Quote from BMFA Classifieds:

"Acro wot ,must be all up ,and in mint condition,local if poss ,west mids" (should have said must be less than hundred quid and be delivered to the door)!

I have 2 Acrowots, but this guy won't want them as they were just both bought for nowt from someone who had flown them to death. Both needing total rebuild (see my fuel soaked ply thread)

Apparently some of us can't even be bothered to put artfs together now. Oh well it must be the dope fumes getting to me.

[Callsign Tarnish]

Wow, that's unbelievably lazy.

[MattyB]

Posted by Erfolg on 03/08/2020 20:56:17:

I do not see any difference between purchasing from HK or from many UK retailers other than the sticky label. Oh, that is one has a sticky label with Turnigy, another has a different brand name, ah, that is other than the price.

I just do not recognise the time when the UK trade supplied fine kits, that went together well, or that all the accessories were of the finest quality.

Agreed. I also can’t say I recognise all these incredible model shops that several people have nostalgically remembered in this thread. Yes there are absolutely a few great independent UK retailers now, but that’s survival of the fittest - many of those that have gone under in the last 30 years were pretty awful. The owners of several my old “locals” would rather chat to his mates than sell you anything, and some of the advise given put to beginners was completely abysmal - they’d rather sell you whatever they had in stock that day than something suitable which gave the buyer a shot at success.

They have thankfully all gone now, and tbh I don’t miss them a jot - I simply buy from the best UK suppliers (T9, Hyperflight, Bondaero etc) when I need the more specialist, high quality stuff, and HK (never had a CS issue there tbh though they did ask me for a photo of an missing item once...!) Banggood and EBay for the rest. Works for me...

Ps - Let’s not forget for many people if there were only the “high quality” options of old they wouldn’t be flying. The likes of HK and others have made electric flight in particular truly accessible, and my overall experience with these retailers has been positive. YMMV...

Edited By MattyB on 03/08/2020 22:29:58

[i12fly]

+1 as a satisfied HK customer. Have only bought items in stock, with decent reviews, and (touch wood) had good quality.

But I don't run planes for hundreds of hours so maybe high quality is not so important, as by the time I get to 20+ hrs the model is replaced by something new. I also fly different models on different times so it takes a while to get to 20+

Sorry if it offends but are any of the people named by Richard Clark 2 still alive? We've now got new 'heroes'- PM, TN to name a couple, and 'the lords of scale' as Alex Whittaker describes them. Many of the manufacturers mentioned disappeared before HK appeared. They were quality in their time, but life moves on and if you keep up (like say Laser) you will survive.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[KiwiKid]

From an e-mail sent out to customers HK seems to be taking a somewhat flippant view of their predicament.

Quite where all this sale stock is coming from I am not sure. But, the clock is running and HK has only 30 days from the judgement date to front with the bucks or the heavies (Justice Dept) will be brought in to start banging heads. Tweaking the nose of your judgement creditor is not really good business practice.

[cymaz]

I’m sure HK send them the cheque. The only caveat is is HK’s p&p....$2.8m

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Tony Richardson on 03/08/2020 21:51:51:

I have to agree with Erfolg on some points, much of the product sold by HK was manufactured by the same company that supplied some of the more higher priced well known brands,. Price is not always an indicator of quality, FrSky produce some good transmitters for a reasonable price - not a HK specific product I know - just an example.

As for the US being protectionist, you have to look at the President and his administrations trade war with china to understand where this is coming from, this to will most likely pass with the passage of time. I hope so as a lot of product from HK usa was good quality and available relatively quickly.

Personally I have never used HK, mostly because of the bad reports about delivery and orders not being complete. It seems to be entirely a matter of luck whether the stuff arrives in a reasonable time or not. But I would not automatically exclude their stuff.

As for price I don't much care as I have never considered rc model planes as a low-cost hobby. But OTOH I don't automatically buy 'expensive'.

ARTF's? I only have two, my other approx twently planes are my own designs, plans, or kits.. One ARTF is a Graupner Bolkow Monsun, which is a Black horse plane under another name. It's quality is just about acceptable but then it was a heavily discounted spur of the moment purchase at my LMS and I never expected much. Some might think it an odd choice but all scale low wing light aircraft look and fly much the same so it doesn't matter which one you choose.

Do I care about HK? No. I happily built model planes for many years before they existed and can cope without them now.

[Pete Collins]

Lots of discussion about the relative merits of HK but you have to admit that if they HAVE been selling non-compliant gear then it's right that someone does something about it. Compare that with the attitude of the British Government during the 27Mhz CB scandal (if you're old enough to remember that far back!) Their stance was that it's not illegal to sell or buy the equipment - only to use it.

[ken anderson.]

Erfolg(Carl)...I still have you down as an intelligent lad...I thought that hobbyking was an either an Australian owned or run company?

ken anderson...ne..1...hobbyking dept.