Got bitten today :-(

[martin collins 1]

One of my recent buys was a lovely Precedent Bi-Fly 25 which was fitted with a Thunder Tiger Pro 36 glow engine, it also came with a nearly new container of fuel. Now i haven`t flown a glow engined plane for 20+ years, preferring the cleanliness and ease of operation of electric, but hey ho it came with the fuel, i had a pump and glow stick that came with another model which i had since converted to electric, why not give it a go and fly as is i thought. I got it started pretty much straight away but after warm up it wouldn`t throttle up without trying to die so i went to tweak the needle and WALLOP i stuck my fingers in the prop I guess that comes from unfamiliarity with this type of propulsion, after finger repairs and a cup of cha i went out again and ran it, but the needle tweaking with the plane vertical and the general mess from the exhaust and clean up afterwards reminded me why i fly electric. Anyone want to buy the motor? It means cutting a battery hatch etc but it`s a lovely little plane and i am looking forward to fling it..............Martin

 

 

 

Edited By martin collins 1 on 28/02/2019 18:52:46

[Don Fry]

But from another viewpoint, I once read, of a leccy lad, who shorted his Lipo out, on a gold ring similar to the one on your finger. It caused an effective weld to the wires and inflicted serious burns.

I once worked with a lad with nine fingers. The tenth was lost when he climbed some wrought iron railings, slipped, and ended up caught by his wedding ring, dangling on the top of the railings. He related it was a relief when the finger parted.

Take care in life.

[Wihtgar]

Reminds me of when I was a teenager - stuck my finger through the prop to adjust the needle valve bench running a McCoy 35. Had been used to an ED Bee with rear needle valve! Still got the scars and that was 50+ years ago. At least I didn't lose any fingers though. My Dad wasn't too pleased as he was milking the cows and had to take me to casualty but at least I was dealt with almost immediately as it was in the sixties.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

It doesn't really matter if it's Watts or burning methanol driving them.... spinning props hurt & are best kept away from fingers or indeed any soft fleshy parts....

[brokenenglish]

We've all done it...

[Chris Walby]

In my youth I had a single cylinder 350cc Bultaco 2 stroke with a kick start on the left, so you stood to the left of the bike and kicked it with you right leg.

This thing had static ignition timing at +40 degrees before top dead centre and quite aggressive porting to give it top end.

I just wanted to start it and make sure it was okay at home and was giving it my best effort with the limited throw of the kick start lever until it fired.....then fired backwards and sent my knee into the underside of the handlebars. I was lying on the floor with a numb leg wondering if I hand don something permanent when my Dad came out of the garage with a DTI and some tools and we backed off the ignition.

My mate and me took to bump starting it in 3rd gear and when it started it would leave a 10ft black line off the rear tyre when it fired up if it didn't lift the front wheel!

Absolute animal with a power band of nothing and then everything in one hit once you could get it going!

PS as an electrician I never worn rings or watches with metal straps, 72V DC forklift truck batteries don't take any prisoners.

[Geoff S]

Posted by Don Fry on 28/02/2019 19:04:11:

But from another viewpoint, I once read, of a leccy lad, who shorted his Lipo out, on a gold ring similar to the one on your finger. It caused an effective weld to the wires and inflicted serious burns.

I once worked with a lad with nine fingers. The tenth was lost when he climbed some wrought iron railings, slipped, and ended up caught by his wedding ring, dangling on the top of the railings. He related it was a relief when the finger parted.

Take care in life.

I never wear rings for those very reasons. #A work colleague back in the early 60s shorted out the low voltage but very high current DC busbars of an ICT 1301 computer and the burns on his fingers (a ring on each hand0 were horrible. There was also a heakth and safety exhibition at the tech college and one described how a lorry driver had caught his ring on the door handle as he jumped out and pulled his finger off.

As a teen I worked on TVs with 7 to 10kv EHT supplies to the CRT which could give you a bit of a jolt so no metal watch straps either.

Geoff

[Daithi O Buitigh]

On a slightly more bizarre note, we had a very exuberant border collie who always jumped up to greet. One day, he managed to snag a tooth in my wedding ring - it HURT (and left a dent in the rim of the ring for years after).

btw Geoff, monochrome TVs had the EHT at 15 KV (colour ones are round 25 KV) but the problem with watches wasn't the straps  - it was the magnetic field from the scan coils that had me getting a replacement hair spring (in mechanical watches) on average every 6 months if I forgot to take it off . I did get a few zaps from EHT but never due to a ring or watch: one day I had it shoot thropugh from a knuckle on the small finger to the knuckle on the index fingerr (leaving a pinhole sized callous). The standard safety rule was to work with one hand in your pocket so that any discharge would go down one side and not across the chest

 

Edited By Daithi O Buitigh on 28/02/2019 23:35:46

[David Davis]

On a similar note we once had a club secretary Tony Salisbury who was an inexperienced pilot and who only flew electric powered models but he was a prolific builder, an excellent secretary and everybody loved him. He had built a 1/4 scale Piper Cub which he gave to a more experienced pilot, Ken Davies, for the maiden flight. The flight itself was a success but as the model was in the landing circuit it started to trail smoke! Tony was a good builder but perhaps like many of us, his soldering was not his strong suit. Whatever the case, the substantial LiPo had started to brew up well and truely but fortunately for Tony, he had built a door into the side of the model so as soon as the model stopped rolling he was able to open the door and remove the LiPo, burning his hands in the process, otherwise the model would certainly have caught fire. What was ironic was that Tony was a Senior Officer in the Fire Brigade at the time!

They're both dead now, Tony long before his time after an operation to remove a tumour on his brain. Rest in peace Tony and Ken.

Carpe diem gentlemen. Sieze the day.

[Peter Miller]

I never wear rings. Especially since I saw an engine fitter slip while working on and engine and he ended up hanging by his ring.

AS for prop cuts, well I only count the ones that needed A&E treatment I think that is only four in some 68 years of modelling.

Seen some other nasty ones too...Eleven stitches to put a forefinger together? The victim also broke my beautiful, hand carved pusher prop at the same time...Now THAT hurt me!!!

One thing I have learned, the most likely models to have accidents with props are those with pusher props or props in unusual places. I refuse to even touch those models

Edited By Peter Miller on 01/03/2019 08:28:20

[Nigel R]

IC and electric both bite in different ways.

[ken anderson.]

hello martin,looking at your photo I would say you have got off pretty lightly. Over the years I've seen a few mangled up carol singers......some a lot worse than yours...funny how most of us are extra careful around the majority of things and then when we play with our toys we forget that they have the potential to do us harm.....c/w a large sprinkle of the Red stuff for good luck....take care...

ken anderson...ne..1..carol singers/fingers dept.

[Don Fry]

Posted by Nigel R on 01/03/2019 08:27:15:

IC and electric both bite in different ways.

As a crocodile and a tiger. Both hurt. And Peter, I also don't do pushers of any size. From the motor side, a pusher prop draws your hand in, hence the nastier nature of the injuries.

[Nigel R]

Nail, head, Don

I see a lot of complacency with electric at the field. Plug in, reach through prop arc, fiddling with TX, everything live. Carry it to strip with prop resting in stomach, everything live. All on big 6S models. Just one accidental tweak of the throttle stick away from casualty. Toasty, just flown packs, chucked straight into cars, not in a tin / ammo box / etc.

IC make noise and you know they're running.

Chap I worked with, had a great story about a mate who stuck a 12" King Dick spanner across two busbars. Spanner was in his back pocket, contacted when he leant forward. Painful. Left an embarrassing scar, lucky it was easy to cover up!

[Cuban8]

Never had a model engine draw blood from me in 50 years of the hobby, maybe the odd scraped knuckle from tuning two strokes when I ran them back in the day (tempting fate now) .........................but a few years ago I badly cut my inner forearm on glass after reaching down to pick up the last pane of our then new greenhouse that I was building - (the pointed apex bit above the door). A moment's inattention was all it took. Looked like a bullet flesh wound, but luckily missed any arteries or veins that were visibly close by. Very little blood, so cleaned it up, dressed it regularly, no signs of infection and as it was from new and packaged glass considered risk of tetanus to be minimal. Healed within a week or so. Got a nice Y shaped scar as a reminder.

Amazed at what trivial things some people turn up at A&E with, a generational thing perhaps? I'd have seeked help if I'd been bleeding to death though

 

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 01/03/2019 10:03:19

[Tim Flyer]

Another thing that I have observed with some flyers that increases risk on IC is poor idle tuning. Some people never bother to adjust idle settings properly and end up needing to start their engines on relatively high throttle settings. That means when starting, the engines “burst into life” at relatively high rpm which increases risk. It’s important to tune the engine so it will run with minimal carb opening and able to hold low rpm. Properly tuned non racing engines can all be tuned to idle at low rpm and will start perfectly on idle.

[Jon H]

I have to shut my eyes and walk away sometimes when i see some guys operating their models. I just look at them and think they are an accident waiting to happen and i really dont want to have to deal with it.

One chap at my old club had a clip on glow lead that was so shot it wouldnt hang on to the plug on his inverted engine. No problem he says, hand under the prop to hold the glow on and hit it with the starter in the other hand. I dont know how many times he cut his wrists with the prop but it didnt seem to stop him.

I have also seen blokes virtually straddle the prop when starting which does nothing more than put the wedding tackle in real peril! Not to mention that beefy old artery in their leg.

It makes me shudder just thinking about it.

I agree with Tim's point about high throttle settings when starting. I have made that mistake once or twice and its not a fun experience. The worst was my La7 and its 300v. I slapped the throttle closed after priming and didnt realise the stick had bounced off the low end stop and come up to about 1/3 throttle. When the engine finally burst into life it was a bit of a shock to say the least and i didnt trust the restraint enough at that throttle setting to let go of the model and throttle back. A club mate saw it all and came to my rescue!

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Hi Martin , I'm sorry for your injury ... we've all experienced less-much more, and you seem to have gone relatively well. Do not give up ...... will be better.All the best.

Jos

[Neil James]

I had a serious gash on my finger from a small diesel engine when I was 14 and one of the adults took me home to his wife who was a nurse. She patched me up and we went back to the field to carry on flying. Been very careful since and 50 years later haven’t had any more prop accidents. Loads of injuries from screwdrivers, scalpels and so on though!

Speaking of televisions, early in my working life I did a TV repair course, and one of the instructors used to fault find by licking his thumb and poking it onto various points! If he didn’t get a shock he’d found the fault 🤗. Only monochrome sets mind, colour sets were lethal!

[Nigel R]

Yup, get the idle set up properly and everything becomes less stressful.

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Cuban8 on 01/03/2019 09:55:47:

Amazed at what trivial things some people turn up at A&E with, a generational thing perhaps? I'd have seeked help if I'd been bleeding to death though

Edited By Cuban8 on 01/03/2019 10:03:19

I agree but when stitches are needed I prefer them to be done by experienced medical staff!!

One of mine, which apparently had just taken the top off a knuckle was still pouring blood 4 hours later. It had cut an small artery in the knuckle which they had to stitch up. Mind you I got a small bonus. They asked if I wanted the scissors and forceps from the medical pack that they had to open to treat it. Aappently they can't save them for another pack even if they are not used.

. Another of mine broke a nylon prop on the thumb bone. Three stitches. What really annoyed me was that I spent the second week of a fortnights leave with my thumb held up in the air. The owner of the modexl for which I was doing pit crew said "You broke my prop!!!"

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Could be worse, I used to work with an Electrical Clerk of Works / inspector Eddie,who was Boy George's uncle. One Sunday Eddie was working live on his up-stair lighting circuit at home to fit up a dressing table luminaire (Light Fitting ). His wife called out that his dinner was ready, which distracted Eddie who managed to touch a live terminal and blew one of his fingers off. He still suffered pain some years later.

[Geoff S]

Posted by Daithi O Buitigh on 28/02/2019 23:29:04:

btw Geoff, monochrome TVs had the EHT at 15 KV (colour ones are round 25 KV) but the problem with watches wasn't the straps - it was the magnetic field from the scan coils that had me getting a replacement hair spring (in mechanical watches) on average every 6 months if I forgot to take it off . I did get a few zaps from EHT but never due to a ring or watch: one day I had it shoot thropugh from a knuckle on the small finger to the knuckle on the index fingerr (leaving a pinhole sized callous). The standard safety rule was to work with one hand in your pocket so that any discharge would go down one side and not across the chest

The Murphy V240 TVs definitely had an EHT of around 7kv. One of my jobs at the factory in the 1950s was testing returned faulty line output transformers (which generated the EHT). They were oil filled aluminium cans which contained the U25 EHT rectifier diode valve which was the usual failure. My job was to connect the transformer using crocodile clips mounted on a plastic plate attached to an open TV chassis, switch on the TV and check the EHT etc. I reckon I got a belt at least once a day even though I discharged the EHT capacitor with my screwdriver.

When I think of the normal operating procedures that were accepted as commonplace in the official factory service dept I shudder! It was quite possible to have 2 receivers running on the bench with live chassis that were at full mains voltage between them if you had the 2 pin plugs connected the wrong way round! We used things ;light heartedly called 'death traps' which were a length of mains lead with a 2 pin mains plug at one end and a pair of croc clips at the other insulated with bits of rubber gas pipe. These were used to power up a receiver in for repair from a dealer which didn't have a mains plug attached!

I gave up repairing TVs in 1960 when thermionic valves were still the norm and there were were only 2 broadcast channels.

Geoff

[David Davis]

Long before the incident which I described earlier today, we had a noise complaint so we were all having our engines checked for noise. The treasurer at the time had an Acrowot, fitted with a 61 two stroke. He had been flying it earlier in the day and there was some unburned oil on the fuselage. Having started the engine and with the transmitter in one hand, he reached over to pick up the model, blipping the throttle at the same time to warm up the engine. The model slipped in his hand and the propeller cut through his forearm. Fortunately it was one of the first good flying days in the Spring of the year and there was a good turn out at the flying field. Someone got the first aid box and we put a bandage on his injury, then the man with the fastest car drove him to hospital.I drove his car back to his home. Lesson learned at his expense.

Edited By David Davis on 01/03/2019 16:20:40

[Daithi O Buitigh]

That would have been the 14" model Geoff - the 17" had a higher EHT. If memory serves the 17" version actually used a 30P4MR (the MR was a special version for Murphy as they used one of the octal base tags as a connecting tag for somewgint else as the standard 30P4 had an internal connection to that tag so the trick was to just cut the tag off and replace it with one not connected to the valve base)