john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I've got nothing to add, all been said many times over. Many thanks to the BMFA and others who've been fighting our corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Well, I've written (and complained following their reponses) to the DFT, the CAA and my MP Jess Phillips so that should sort things out , and now I've added my name to the petition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Posted by Peter Christy on 05/06/2019 19:37:02: Someone has started a petition about this: **LINK** May not do any good, but if it reaches 10,000 they are obliged to respond. We ought to be able to reach that easily. -- Pete I have just signed this petition somewhat under duress. The petition is not very well written, and is basically just calling for registration to be scrapped without really justifying the full reasons for this. I have nothing against registration as such, but object more to the complete and utter waste of our money the scheme represents. Badly written or not, we should all sign it - not that it will make a jot of difference. Their minds have been made up, contracts have been signed and the whole obscene waste of money system will plough ahead despite what any of us 'user pays scum' think about it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I've read the BMFA report and as it says the government is prepared to ride rough shod over us and ignore its previous undertakings. I know that there are those that just cant bear to miss flying, even in the depths of a UK winter, but we have only one option of protest left. That option is to do neither the test or register and pay the fee until March/April 2020. A nation wide unobtrusive organised withholding of our compliance seemingly is the only form of protest left to us. Further to the fees now and in the future. A contributor to another forum I visit was requested to attend a trial of the registration and test system. Whilst there in London he reports that he got the distinct impression that the fee would soon go up to £50/y. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Posted by Peter Christy on 05/06/2019 18:45:36: Not good news: BMFA report on meeting with Baroness Vere -- Pete Completely disgusting how she describes it as an 'insignificant fee', when she is paid a vast salary funded by us, the taxpayer. Despicable is not a strong enough word for this woman. Edited By Jason Inskip on 05/06/2019 20:35:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Posted by GONZO on 05/06/2019 20:05:24: I've read the BMFA report and as it says the government is prepared to ride rough shod over us and ignore its previous undertakings. I know that there are those that just cant bear to miss flying, even in the depths of a UK winter, but we have only one option of protest left. That option is to do neither the test or register and pay the fee until March/April 2020. A nation wide unobtrusive organised withholding of our compliance seemingly is the only form of protest left to us. Further to the fees now and in the future. A contributor to another forum I visit was requested to attend a trial of the registration and test system. Whilst there in London he reports that he got the distinct impression that the fee would soon go up to £50/y. I have no intention of stopping flying, nor do I have any intention of paying this model tax. I will register as a pilot only and carry on doing what I do. I have never seen plod where I fly, and don't expect to anytime soon - and if plod does turn up, then I will offer them a flight just like anybody else..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 You may not have had plod but we had fire engines and the fire chief turn up at our field a week or so back. A club member was flying aero's with his turbo prop plane with smoke and a member of the public reported a light aircraft crash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Posted by Jason-I on 05/06/2019 19:59:40: Posted by Peter Christy on 05/06/2019 19:37:02: Someone has started a petition about this: **LINK** May not do any good, but if it reaches 10,000 they are obliged to respond. We ought to be able to reach that easily. -- Pete I have just signed this petition somewhat under duress. The petition is not very well written, and is basically just calling for registration to be scrapped without really justifying the full reasons for this. I have nothing against registration as such, but object more to the complete and utter waste of our money the scheme represents. Badly written or not, we should all sign it - not that it will make a jot of difference. Their minds have been made up, contracts have been signed and the whole obscene waste of money system will plough ahead despite what any of us 'user pays scum' think about it.... My thoughts too, poorly written. I don't wholly agree with it either. I'm fine with the scheme, I just think the fee should be £5. It's a shame that the petition doesn't explain what is wrong with the proposal and the fears that the fee which is already too high is likely to rocket in future years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 I wonder if the BMFA might start (or sanction) a better worded petition now that the consultation with the Baroness has proved to be so disappointing? I'd certainly support a well considered call for debate in Parliament. Like many others here, I have no objection to registration but I do find it absolutely intolerable to be asked to finance a complex system that can only be of benefit to commercial exploiters of lower airspace. Edited By Martin Harris on 05/06/2019 22:07:31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Posted by GONZO on 05/06/2019 20:05:24: I've read the BMFA report and as it says the government is prepared to ride rough shod over us and ignore its previous undertakings. I know that there are those that just cant bear to miss flying, even in the depths of a UK winter, but we have only one option of protest left. That option is to do neither the test or register and pay the fee until March/April 2020. A nation wide unobtrusive organised withholding of our compliance seemingly is the only form of protest left to us. Further to the fees now and in the future. A contributor to another forum I visit was requested to attend a trial of the registration and test system. Whilst there in London he reports that he got the distinct impression that the fee would soon go up to £50/y. My answer to you is NO. There may be some jack in, it will put our club/associations/businesses under pressure, I have no intention of adding to it, there'll be no illegal flying at our club, and certainly none by myself, I can't take the risk of a big fine I wouldn't be able to pay. If the BMFA asks for support it'll be considered, acting like those we've been condemning for the last X number of years is a NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 To be fair to Gonzo, he isn't suggesting lawbreaking but refraining from flying until sometime in the New Year as a protest. Possibly a futile gesture but not one that makes him part of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I don't know how to cut and paste posts, there have been comments stating they will break the law. So apologies to Gonzo, my comment on that issue is unfair. We will not be refraining for a year either, we may as well hand in the club lease. In my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I'm with Gonzo on this one. I'll quite happily forego flying in the depths of winter if it helps knock this scheme on the head. Give me time to do some building instead! As others have said, I have no problem with a registration scheme, but this is a simple money grabbing operation. I will vote with my feet (and at the ballot box, come the forthcoming election!). -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I have a problem with the registration and the fee. I differ in how I'll respond to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I'm quite happy to suspend flying from November to summer 2020, maybe longer. If operator registration is only required for models over 250g then I can remove all the receivers from "illegal" models and fly my UMX and light models/quads for a bit. Plenty of time for winter building of scale static models whilst I see how this all pans out. However, if it turns out reasonable and a benefit to model flying by targeting rouge pilots then I would "happily" support registration. Could always take up RC car racing again anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I also agree with what John has said about the impact on clubs. I will still be a member of my club in 2020 even if I don't fly. I would want them to still be there if I return in 2020 or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Some would give up their Winter flying, I don't doubt it, some don't even fly in winter. How do we fit this into the club structure ? How do the bills get paid ? How do you keep the membership ? They gonna pay and not fly ? What about the BMFA come January 1st ? I appreciate you have the hump, but what will it gain us? read the numbers who emailed/wrote in support of the BMFA. The powers that be don't give a monkeys about us, the money is peanuts to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 I can't recall what the position is on control line and registration - perhaps we could dig out some Laystrate and start flying round in circles until the point is made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Against our lease, fed up with going round in circles anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Pants Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Could be unrelated but......coincidence and all that. For info, all relevant information, I found the possible implications of the last sentence interesting. https://phys.org/news/2019-06-amazon-drones-months.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I would not be surprised if the DfT/CAA place some onus on the clubs/BMFA. Such as, when it comes to membership renewal they are required to confirm that you are registered with the scheme. I don't fly over the winter - so I won't be registering until spring 2020 but I doubt they will get worried about numbers until the end of the first year. Cheers, Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Posted by Chili Pants on 06/06/2019 00:13:03: Could be unrelated but......coincidence and all that. For info, all relevant information, I found the possible implications of the last sentence interesting. https://phys.org/news/2019-06-amazon-drones-months.html That can only be talking about remote areas in the US. Personally I can't see it ever working in the UK other than in the remotest possible areas. Just imagine a drone delivery to your house - how dangerous would that be, how many laws would it be breaking. I don't believe this is months off at all, unless they are only talking about really remote and inaccessible places. Cheers, Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 With 50% of my club's members being mostly 'armchair flyers' even in high summer, a voluntary break over winter will have little effect on us. I suspect that many other clubs are the same. Not much more to mull over at the moment, time's ticking on, but I still hold out a hope for sanity to eventually prevail. Bmfa and others are doing their best although we could do with a bit of positive media coverage and support from a known aviation/modelling enthused celeb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 In my club we have a number of members who only fly FF rubber power, no need to register or take the test. I will join the club for 2020 but not register or take test until I reconsider the situation in the spring of 2020 I may then decide to just fly sub 250g for a while. There are some interesting developments in this area and I'm sure there will be more. We're and inventive lot, us aero modellers. After all it was our brethren who caused the drone to exist in the first place. CL - is currently included in this registration scheme which strikes me as totally stupid. CL is tethered flight the length of the wires. There is absolutely no way it could interfere with any drone deliveries. A solution, that is employed in other countries, is to register all model flying sites and give them a form of ATZ like full size airports/airfields. This makes eminent sense to me as:- 1/ we do not fly cross country but stay within the limited airspace confines of our club site; 2/ any commercial activity can easily programme these locations as 'no-go' areas with no consequences as by and large these sites are away from any significant population. Amazon has still not stated how they intend to overcome the actual final delivery problems, at the property, of security, registration of receipt, weather protection location at the address for the parcel etc. Where I live its 5 and 4 bed detached houses and detached bungalows all around. I've tried to envisage how 'drone deliveries' would work in this easy environment but come up with a big fail for almost all properties. With a critical eye try and envisage deliveries where you live. Then consider a more densely populated situation of semi's, terraced houses and flats. The turbulence and wind sheer around the houses in my location is considerable a lot of the time. A few well publicised crashes of drones through windows or into expensive cars will give cause to think. Any personal injuries would soon cause a cessation of operations. I've seen nothing to change my opinion that this concept has very limited use for deliveries to individual properties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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