The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Richard Acland on 01/12/2019 11:56:43:

How do we get our insurance certificates and membership cards. I hope that they do not expect me to use my paper and ink to print off everyones paperwork. If it is up to each individual how does it work for our three members that do not have a computer.

Like it or not, the world is moving on and from being a minority interest 20 years ago, internet access is now an integral part of life and those who choose not to get access are in a tiny minority. Even without owning computers or smartphones, most people will have relatives or friends who would hopefully download and print off anything necessary.

Failing this, there is also the option of ordering a printed card for the price of a pint...

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by ken anderson. on 01/12/2019 10:35:28:

too late now but I wouldn't be broadcasting that the on line test is very easy etc,maybe when the powers to be have a look at some feedback they will be thinking "maybe" we need to change the format/toughen it up...roll on this time next year when all of this is forgot about (probably)…

ken anderson...ne..1..... forgot dept.

The way I read it, the primary purpose of the test is not to confirm your competence, but to serve as evidence that you are aware of the rules and therefore, have no defence if you are caught doing something wrong.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by ken anderson. on 01/12/2019 10:35:28:

too late now but I wouldn't be broadcasting that the on line test is very easy etc,maybe when the powers to be have a look at some feedback they will be thinking "maybe" we need to change the format/toughen it up...roll on this time next year when all of this is forgot about (probably)…

ken anderson...ne..1..... forgot dept.

The way I read it, the primary purpose of the test is not to confirm your competence, but to serve as evidence that you are aware of the rules and therefore, have no defence if you are caught doing something wrong.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Cuban8]

Re the dropping of hard copy insurance certs and BMFA membership cards - from 100 members I've not had one single request for hard copy of either and I know many of our members are active in the comp scene and go to fly-ins etc. so they're managing OK.

I have all my own details on my phone - if anyone did want a printout of their stuff from the Portal it's hardly an onerous task and TBH the cost to the club is minute compared to posting out all the old bumph that for most people just got chucked to the back of the work bench or in the drawer and forgotten about.

[AndyD]

tried login in to pay the BMFA and pay but it wont accept my password,it didn't work last year and still wont work now,as last year ive tried resetting pass word which says its done but still wont accept it.does this mean I don't have to pay.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I think it means you need to call their office.

Perhaps they have the wrong email address on file?

[Cuban8]

According to the Drone Code................."Keep the right distance from people and property. People and properties – 150ft (50m)"

So, this effectively precludes any testing of a >250g helicopter in your garden? (unless you have a huge garden). Would it be OK to hover the machine below the level of your boundary fence, so you're not directly within 50M of your neighbour's house?

[AndyD]

Posted by Martin Harris on 01/12/2019 14:47:13:

I think it means you need to call their office.

Perhaps they have the wrong email address on file?

they send me emails so it cant be that plus I went through all this last year and ended up doing it through our club which they trying to stop,

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Cuban8 on 01/12/2019 14:56:10:

According to the Drone Code................."Keep the right distance from people and property. People and properties – 150ft (50m)"

So, this effectively precludes any testing of a >250g helicopter in your garden? (unless you have a huge garden). Would it be OK to hover the machine below the level of your boundary fence, so you're not directly within 50M of your neighbour's house?

If you cover the garden with a net...yes!

[Cuban8]

Cheers Martin.............

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by AndyD on 01/12/2019 15:00:47:

Posted by Martin Harris on 01/12/2019 14:47:13:

I think it means you need to call their office.

Perhaps they have the wrong email address on file?

they send me emails so it cant be that plus I went through all this last year and ended up doing it through our club which they trying to stop,

Who is trying to stop you doing it through the club? Drop an email to [email protected] and I am sure it will be easily sorted.

You are trying to login at https://bmfa.azolve.com I assume? Renewals are available from tomorrow.

[MattyB]

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 01/12/2019 09:49:20:

It is interesting to see how different clubs are taking this on board.

I am in two clubs, with wildly differing approaches...

Club 1 insists that the duty man must check any members without an A for proof of competency before they fly. Mind you, this basically means that all club ID will have to be checked on the field to see who has an A, and nobody is allowed to fly solo without an A anyway. Thus: No numbers, no fly. This is the club that will only let you fly if your TX/RX are the same brand. They sure do love some pettifogging faffing around in that club.

Club 2 is working on the basis that it is the individual flyers responsibility (club sec spoke to BMFA re this, so it's gold), the club has is not there to police on behalf of the CAA, and that if you can take-off, fly a circuit and land without being obviously dangerous go and fly.

Guess which field I go to more often...

The committee of Club 1 may want to consider whether they still want the club to exist in 10 years - I can’t imagine many new meme era sticking around with an attitude like that.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

The policing comments confuse me, all clubs police to some extent, seems mountains are being made of molehills to me.

Our members will know the rules and the law of the land, will we be checking all and sundry ? Nope, we don't do for all the other rules that have been in place for years, so why change.

Would/will we address anyone breaking the law deliberately ? Clubs well being comes first, as it always has. So what's changed ?

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by MattyB on 01/12/2019 19:02:51:

 

The committee of Club 1 may want to consider whether they still want the club to exist in 10 years - I can’t imagine many new meme era sticking around with an attitude like that.

...or the members might consider whether they need a new committee!

Edited By Martin Harris on 01/12/2019 19:18:36

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Cuban8]

Posted by Steve J on 01/12/2019 19:24:43:

Posted by Cuban8 on 01/12/2019 14:56:10:

According to the Drone Code................."Keep the right distance from people and property. People and properties – 150ft (50m)"

Did you read the first few sentences of that section of the drone code?

Yes I have read it and understand the statement no closer than 50M.Top of the page points 3-7. What I'm saying is does that mean an unobstucted 50M or as I suggest in one's garden with a fence covering all paths to a close neighbouring property? What about hovering a drone/heli inside a clearing within clump of trees thats <50M of a property?

I know a model shop where they test hover customers' machines after repair in the fenced off area at the back of the shop - how will they get on?

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 01/12/2019 20:06:13

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Cuban8]

Posted by Steve J on 01/12/2019 20:10:18:

"The distances in point 4 apply to drones and model aircraft fitted with cameras. Even if you don’t have a camera, you must still fly safely, so following these points will help you do this."

(Drone Code, point 4, para 2)

To sum up then.......providing your model is not equipped with a camera, the 50M rule doesn't apply but should instead be used as a guide to ensure safe flying.

Q. Providing I'm happy that I can hover my non-camera equipped heli within 50M of adjoining properties safely, I and anyone else in a similar situation is good to go.

[Keith Berriman]

What a great point here there has been all this talk about Drone and Aircraft and no mention of Helicopters looks like I need to ammend my Xmas pressy list

[John Tee]

Our club will check for Competency certificate at our AGM and renewal night, to cover the club in case of any incidents from "illegal" fliers. No certificate - no flying renewal only associate membership.

John

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by RC Plane Flyer on 02/12/2019 10:18:02:

What a great point here there has been all this talk about Drone and Aircraft and no mention of Helicopters looks like I need to ammend my Xmas pressy list

I know the comment was tongue in cheek but last time I looked, helicopters were aircraft!

As for John's club checking competency certificates, luckily all our pilots except those under training have A certs. so making such a decision is irrelevant but wouldn't a simple rule requiring members to adhere to current legislation cover it now - and in the future when [most likely not if] legislation and/or exemptions change.

It seems to me that by doing these checks, your club is taking on a responsibility to continuously police the regulations unnecessarily and in the event of any official investigation the committee might find themselves answering questions in court.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Martin Harris on 02/12/2019 18:45:24:

Posted by RC Plane Flyer on 02/12/2019 10:18:02:

What a great point here there has been all this talk about Drone and Aircraft and no mention of Helicopters looks like I need to ammend my Xmas pressy list

I know the comment was tongue in cheek but last time I looked, helicopters were aircraft!

As for John's club checking competency certificates, luckily all our pilots except those under training have A certs. so making such a decision is irrelevant but wouldn't a simple rule requiring members to adhere to current legislation cover it now - and in the future when [most likely not if] legislation and/or exemptions change.

It seems to me that by doing these checks, your club is taking on a responsibility to continuously police the regulations unnecessarily and in the event of any official investigation the committee might find themselves answering questions in court.

Anyone like me out there ?

I haven't a clue what the score is with these policing comments, do yous check flyers are insured ?

Has the BMFA said insurance could be invalid if you fly not legal ?

I am genuinely puzzled as to what's being said.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I understand that the BMFA have said that insurance may be invalidated depending on the exact circumstances - but they have also stated that individual members are responsible for their own compliance and that the element of insurance pertaining to the club and committee will not be affected by such a person having an accident at the club.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Yep, Individuals have always had the responsibility Martin, Not sure if a non registered flyer hits a car is he's insured.

Or to put it another way, Who pays ?

It being said it doesn't matter at clubs ?

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

My interpretation?

The insurer might not pay out if I'm held to blame for damaging property - or worse, personal injury and it's up to me to decide whether it's worth jeopardising my home and savings for the sake of a yearly £9 payment [and if I didn't hold a BMFA qualification, 3 yearly test], whether I agree with the effectiveness of the legislation or not.

As a responsible committee member, instructor and examiner, I will encourage compliance and give guidance. I will not be nominating myself as a policeman but equally, if club rules are broken I won't ignore them.