The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Good post Matty.

[i12fly]

Matty

[Nigel Heather]

Just received the latest BMFA magazine and it is accompanied by some very useful leaflets about registration.

It also has a set of test questions.

I’ve read through them and have some questions myself

1. Are these the actual questions that you will be asked
2. The questions are in two sections, non-camera equipped (13 questions) and camera equipped (7 questions). I notice that when opening the BMFA test you are asked whether your aircraft is camera equipped. Does that mean if you say ‘No’ then you are only asked the first 13 questions.
3. There are a few question that I admit that I’m not 100% sure of. For example, Q4 asks whether there are any restriction that apply at a particular place (select all that apply). Answers are BBC Website, drone app and dronesafe.uk. Now I pretty sure it is the second two (though they have misspelt the address from the dronesafe website so technically that is wrong too) but I’m not sure about the BBC website - does it have links, maybe, I don’t no, I assume mot but not 100% certain.
4. Other question that I feel it would easy to slip up on are Q14, Q16, Q17, Q18 in that I think I can answer them but I also think I can spin some of the options to be incorrect or correct.

Cheers,

Nigel

[John Bisset]

(Good post yesterday Matty - thanks)

Nigel, I wondered about Qu 4 too. I suspect the BBC option as a source of info is a red herring & having checked I can see no sign of anything relevant. The snag with multiple choice is that the wrong answers must be ~believable, Well, that is one of the snags with multiple choice...

I presumed the dronesafe website was correct when spelt correctly (!) and that the 'app' would also be correct, though I have not seen such a beast.  (Late addendum : A 'drone app' might be about other drone related matters, so possibly a wrong option. Hmm.) 

Like you I thought Qus 16-19 were potentially awkward and since I don't use camera equipped machines, personally irrelevant. Hopefully the apparently commonsense answers will be correct.

Well done the BMFA for issuing this so promptly in a clear easy to understand way. Now to find out if my 'common sense' thinking works!

Edited By John Bisset on 07/12/2019 14:56:12

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nick Cripps]

On behalf of the Long Eaton & District Model Aircraft Club, I would just like to say thank you to Andy Symons for making the trip to our club meeting last night and giving a very informative talk on DMARES.

We are fortunate to have people like Andy and BMFA CEO Dave Phipps fighting our corner on this matter.

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by John Bisset on 07/12/2019 14:52:01:

(Good post yesterday Matty - thanks)

Nigel, I wondered about Qu 4 too. I suspect the BBC option as a source of info is a red herring & having checked I can see no sign of anything relevant. The snag with multiple choice is that the wrong answers must be ~believable, Well, that is one of the snags with multiple choice...

I presumed the dronesafe website was correct when spelt correctly (!) and that the 'app' would also be correct, though I have not seen such a beast. (Late addendum : A 'drone app' might be about other drone related matters, so possibly a wrong option. Hmm.)

Like you I thought Qus 16-19 were potentially awkward and since I don't use camera equipped machines, personally irrelevant. Hopefully the apparently commonsense answers will be correct.

Well done the BMFA for issuing this so promptly in a clear easy to understand way. Now to find out if my 'common sense' thinking works!

Edited By John Bisset on 07/12/2019 14:56:12

Yes, take question 16. This is about flying a drone using FPV. Gives, four options (select all that apply). They are

• You are using a buddy box, and one pilot with the master TX maintains line of site.
• If you are flying under a current CAA exemption and comply with that
• Okay to use googles if outside an airfield’s restriction zone
• Okay to use goggles if there is no one else nearby

So analysing these

1. This is definitely okay even though it is going much further than the legislation requires
2. Who knows, depends on which exemption you are flying under. For example you could be complying with exemption E4973 but that is nothing to do with FPV
3. Depends, if you are complying with the FPV rules then yes, otherwise no
4. No as this suggests that you don’t have a spotter maintaining line of site

So if it were me, I’d say that (1) is the only one that is definitely correct. (2) and (3) might be okay but depends on circumstances, you can’t say for sure. And (4) is definitely wrong.

But would that give me the mark, depends on what the thought process of the question setter is for (2) and (3) is.

There are a handful like that.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Dickw]

Posted by Nigel Heather on 07/12/2019 17:20:58:.......................

• You are using a buddy box, and one pilot with the master TX maintains line of site.
• If you are flying under a current CAA exemption and comply with that
• Okay to use googles if outside an airfield’s restriction zone
• Okay to use goggles if there is no one else nearby

So analysing these

1. This is definitely okay even though it is going much further than the legislation requires
2. Who knows, depends on which exemption you are flying under. For example you could be complying with exemption E4973 but that is nothing to do with FPV
3. Depends, if you are complying with the FPV rules then yes, otherwise no
4. No as this suggests that you don’t have a spotter maintaining line of site

So if it were me, I’d say that (1) is the only one that is definitely correct. (2) and (3) might be okay but depends on circumstances, you can’t say for sure. And (4) is definitely wrong.

But would that give me the mark, depends on what the thought process of the question setter is for (2) and (3) is.

There are a handful like that.

Cheers,

Nigel

Are you sure about (1) going further than the legislation? Have a look at the 2nd bullet point on the CAA site here.

2) I think you can assume the exemption has to be relevant to what you are doing!

3) now you are adding conditions which are not in the question - just making heavy weather of an easy test.

Take the test - if you don't pass first time you will certainly pass a few minutes later when you do it again. Think of it as an education process rather than a test.

Dick

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Nick Cripps on 07/12/2019 16:26:41:

On behalf of the Long Eaton & District Model Aircraft Club, I would just like to say thank you to Andy Symons for making the trip to our club meeting last night and giving a very informative talk on DMARES.

We are fortunate to have people like Andy and BMFA CEO Dave Phipps fighting our corner on this matter.

Aww thank you.

Was good to come along to chat to you all. Quite enjoyed myself.

Major plaudits should go to Dave though. We are lucky to have him spearheading things.

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by Dickw on 07/12/2019 17:45:43:

Posted by Nigel Heather on 07/12/2019 17:20:58:.......................

Are you sure about (1) going further than the legislation? Have a look at the 2nd bullet point on the CAA site here.

That is the vanilla CAA requirement without the FPV amendment. The additional legislation requires that you have a companion who maintains line of sight at all times to comply with the main CAA requirement. However, the legislation does not require that the ‘spotter’ has any control of the drone.

So yes, I maintain that the first option does comply with the legislation but goes further than the legislation requires.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Isn't it simply outlining a compliant situation rather than specifying the minimum?

[cymaz]

I've tried to renew my membership but I'm having problems. Every time I click on renew it comes up with nothing in the box......any one else had this? Am I doing something wrong??

[Bobby]

Hi cymaz, just did mine including the CAA bit about five minutes ago no problems, but my non primary one renewed me to the same end date Dec 2019 that is covered by my membership already to Dec 2019 Emailed BMFA for help Bobby

Edited By Bobby on 07/12/2019 19:56:52

[cymaz]

When I press renew, I get this !

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by cymaz on 07/12/2019 21:09:00:

When I press renew, I get this !

Can you try now please.

[AndyD]

I kept getting the same but after 3 or 4 attemps it worked.

[cymaz]

Andy S is an utter star......all paid now. Thank you

[Dickw]

Posted by Nigel Heather on 07/12/2019 18:19:43:

Posted by Dickw on 07/12/2019 17:45:43:

Posted by Nigel Heather on 07/12/2019 17:20:58:.......................

...

Are you sure about (1) going further than the legislation? Have a look at the 2nd bullet point on the CAA site here.

That is the vanilla CAA requirement without the FPV amendment. The additional legislation requires that you have a companion who maintains line of sight at all times to comply with the main CAA requirement. However, the legislation does not require that the ‘spotter’ has any control of the drone.

So yes, I maintain that the first option does comply with the legislation but goes further than the legislation requires.

Cheers,

Nigel

There isn't actually an FPV amendment - it's an exemption which is slightly different. Have a look under "Permissions and Exemptions" in the left hand column of that link I posted.

The legislation is as described in my link, so I believe that test question option 1) is correct. The exemption allows a variation in some circumstances and is the exemption that option 2) in the test is referring to.

It all seems fairly straight forward to me.

The answer to a similar question in the actual CAA test asking if it is safe to fly behind a line of trees is - "No, because he must be able to see his drone at all times.". There is nothing in the CAA test that allows for FPV, at least the BMFA version allows for the exemption,

Dick

[Nigel Heather]

Been looking through the BMFA questions this afternoon, and as many have said most are pretty straight-forward and I will have no trouble achieving the 16/20 passmark. But I want to get 20/20.

There are two questions that I could answer but am not 100% confident, because I don’t think they are specifically covered in the ANO, exemptions and drone code.

The questions are

Q9 - You’re out flying your model aircraft or drone when it starts to snow. What do you need to consider? (select all that apply)

• That you’re not getting too cold to be able to use your controller
• That your aircraft will work in cold temperatures
• That you can still see your aircraft through the snow.

My first thoughts were (1) and (2) and probably (3). But then I started to think whether there was a trick to this. The question says that you are already flying. Now when it starts snowing it doesn’t just get cold all of a sudden, it would have been cold before you started to fly. So you should have considered 1) and 2) then not waited until it started to snow. So I wonder whether the correct answer is just 3). What do you think?

Q15 - Which of the following should you think about when flying your model aircraft and drone? (Select all that apply)

• If you’re not in full sight, people may not realise what you’re doing and call the police.
• People may be worried about having their privacy invaded
• You could cause a serious incident if you don’t make sure you always fly safely and legally

At first I thought it was all three. Then after some thought I wonder whether the only correct answer is 3) as the very first thing the drone code and the ANO say is that it is your responsibility to fly safely and within the law. Now whilst 1) and 2) are genuine concerns, they are third party perceptions and the legislation does cover peoples opinions. What do you think?

Cheers,

Nigel

[Jason-I]

Posted by Nigel Heather on 08/12/2019 15:55:05:

Been looking through the BMFA questions this afternoon, and as many have said most are pretty straight-forward and I will have no trouble achieving the 16/20 passmark. But I want to get 20/20.

There are two questions that I could answer but am not 100% confident, because I don’t think they are specifically covered in the ANO, exemptions and drone code.

The questions are

Q9 - You’re out flying your model aircraft or drone when it starts to snow. What do you need to consider? (select all that apply)

• That you’re not getting too cold to be able to use your controller
• That your aircraft will work in cold temperatures
• That you can still see your aircraft through the snow.

My first thoughts were (1) and (2) and probably (3). But then I started to think whether there was a trick to this. The question says that you are already flying. Now when it starts snowing it doesn’t just get cold all of a sudden, it would have been cold before you started to fly. So you should have considered 1) and 2) then not waited until it started to snow. So I wonder whether the correct answer is just 3). What do you think?

 

Q15 - Which of the following should you think about when flying your model aircraft and drone? (Select all that apply)

• If you’re not in full sight, people may not realise what you’re doing and call the police.
• People may be worried about having their privacy invaded
• You could cause a serious incident if you don’t make sure you always fly safely and legally

At first I thought it was all three. Then after some thought I wonder whether the only correct answer is 3) as the very first thing the drone code and the ANO say is that it is your responsibility to fly safely and within the law. Now whilst 1) and 2) are genuine concerns, they are third party perceptions and the legislation does cover peoples opinions. What do you think?

Cheers,

Nigel

 

 

Q9: 1,2 & 3. No trick. Select ALL that apply.

Q15: Ditto, all 3. Don't overthink this stuff.

 

 

Edited By Jason-I on 08/12/2019 16:35:11

[Nigel Heather]

Thanks, yes, I probably looking for catches. Comes of working in the IT business where I know from working on both sides of the contract that requirements that are ambiguous or open to interpretation are going to be costly down the road for the customer.

So I guess I’m always looking at things to see if they could be interpreted any differently.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Peter Jenkins]

Nigel, remember that the best is the enemy of the good! I did the test just to see what it was like and scored 19/20 and I have a B and am an Examiner. The one I got wrong was just because I was over thinking the issue. Just aim to pass and if you don't you can take it again. If you pass, there is no need to take it again because you didn't get them all right. Hope that helps. You would probably have passed by now if you hadn't been hung up on getting full marks. No one will know anyway!

[Paul C.]

Hi all, just got back from hols so decided to sort my BMFA membership etc using go membership site. All went well until I tried to select by card payment, I could not get the payment screen to appear logged out several times but no joy. I was using my android galaxy tablet and Google Chrome. Fired up the trusty laptop signed in to go membership and had no problem with the card payment, membership sorted, CAA sorted and posh membership card on order 👍confirmation emails received as well 😁.

Not complaining just posting for information , suspect the site may have a few quirks with android applications. I found it a very easy operation and am sure any little issues will soon be sorted, great job BMFA 👍

Paul.

[Bill Wood]

NEED TO CARRY COPY OF CAA EXEMPTION NOTICE E4956 WHEN FLYING (if applying via BMFA):

After renewing my BMFA membership and opting for CAA registration at the same time on the azolve website, all very quick and easy, I assumed that I could just continue flying ( I have a BMFA FW(A) certificate) and wait for registration and numbers to come from CAA in February 2020. However a club member pointed out that I must carry a copy of the CAA exemption notice plus proof of BMFA membership and copy of achievement scheme certificate whenever I'm flying. The CAA Exemption Notice E4956 states this in paragraph 3. Sorry if you all know about this requirement, but I must have missed it when I renewed BMFA membership. Of course this only applies if you apply for CAA registration through the BMFA or other recognised organisation. Copies of notice E4956 can be obtained from the BMFA website under EXEMPTIONS.

[Peter Jenkins]

Bill, all the relevant exemption certificates are in your BMFA News pack for December. E4956 is not in the BMFA supplied pack as it does not specifically cover the same ground as the 3 Exemptions (E4972, 4973 and 4974) in the BMFA News pack. The only one not there is the 400 ft exemption and you do not have to carry that with you - but I do, just in case.