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The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

Nigel R

By Nigel R,
in All Things Model Flying

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Ben B

Ben B

Posted
Posted

How do the distance regulations (distance to property) etc relate to sub 250g models? Eg if I fly my inductrix (all 30 grams of it) round my garden am I in breach of ANO or has that actually always been the case and this registration scheme just means I can't claim ignorance. Having passed the bmfa tests I feel I should know the answer but don't! Presumably I should also have someone next to me if I'm flying fpv!

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Martin Harris - Moderator

Martin Harris - Moderator

Posted
Posted

FPV flying outdoors requires a competent observer.

As far as I can see, there are no references to minimum mass in reference to the flying regulations, as opposed to registration, relating to small unmanned aircraft:

  • Schedule 2 of the ANO defines a Small unmanned aircraft as follows:

    “any unmanned aircraft, other than a balloon or a kite, having a mass of not more than 20kg without its fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight;”

    Although not specified in the ANO, the CAA adopts the following definitions:

    ‘unmanned aircraft’ means any aircraft operating or designed to operate autonomously or to be piloted remotely without a pilot on board;

    ‘aircraft’ means any machine that can derive support in the atmosphere from the reactions of the air other than reactions of the air against the earth's surface;

    As such, we consider the following as flying ‘objects’ rather than flying ‘machines’ , and so do not fall within the definition of an unmanned aircraft, or a ‘small unmanned aircraft’:

     

    • Paper aeroplane
    • Hand launched glider, but only those with no moveable control surfaces or remote control link
    • Frisbees, darts and other thrown toys.

Edited By Martin Harris on 26/11/2019 22:31:15

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Nigel Heather

Nigel Heather

Posted
Posted
Posted by Steve J on 26/11/2019 22:19:11:

Ben, At the moment, you are OK so long as your Inductrix doesn't have a camera.

PS Unless you are in an FRZ.

Edited By Steve J on 26/11/2019 22:22:56

My understanding is that the sub-250g exclusion just means that you don’t need to register for pilot and operator IDs to own and fly one. You still have to abide by the rules in the legislation. How that would be policed and enforced is another matter.

Cheers,

Nigel

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GONZO

GONZO

Posted
Posted
Posted by Martin_K on 27/11/2019 11:32:56:

If you have upset your neighbour, and the neighbour follows CAA advice, they will make a non-emergency call to the police.

smileysmileysmileysmiley Have you ever used that? I have and you generally wait at least 4hr for a response, generally its the next day if at all. Most times now the police don't even respond to a burglary 999 call, they just give you a crime number.

Sub 250gm site/airspace/distance requirements are contained in the table on page 32 of CAP 1789 (with no agreed concessions it starts 1/7/2020)

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Jason-I

Jason-I

Posted
Posted
Posted by Steve J on 26/11/2019 22:19:11:

Ben, At the moment, you are OK so long as your Inductrix doesn't have a camera.

PS Unless you are in an FRZ.

Edited By Steve J on 26/11/2019 22:22:56

Yeah, I cannot fly my 24g inductrix even 1cm off the ground in my back garden because I am just within a FRZ.

I can however kick a 500g football as high as I like into the very same airspace, Go figure....

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Martin Harris - Moderator

Martin Harris - Moderator

Posted
Posted

Further to a much earlier post which cast doubt on the possibility of holding the exemptions and BMFA certificate on an electronic device, I received the following from our rather efficient club secretary this afternoon:

Thank you for contacting the drone and model aircraft registration team.

Please see below responses to your questions and do let us know if you have any other questions, thank you.

Flyer ID:
a) does this need to be on paper or is it sufficient to have the confirmation email or just the actual Flyer ID number saved on one's phone ?

It should be sufficient to have it on your phone.


b) regardless of if it's on paper or phone, does it have to be carried on one's person or could it be for example in one's car (assuming the the car is within sight of the pilot) or in the Clubhouse (if one were flying in flying club grounds)

In both cases, as long as it can be easily produced when requested by the police.


BMFA Certification (i.e. proof of BMFA 'A' Certificate etc):
Where someone chooses to use their BMFA Certification instead of a Flyer ID

a) does the Certification proof and the Exemption which covers it both need to be on paper or could it be saved (for example as JPG or PDF) on one's phone.


It should be sufficient to have it on your phone.


b) regardless of if they're on paper or phone, do they have to be carried on one's person or could they be for example in one's car (assuming the the car is within sight of the pilot) or in the Clubhouse (if one were flying in flying club grounds)


In both cases, as long as it can be easily produced when requested by the police.


BMFA Operator ID Exemption:
BMFA members are exempt from Registering for an Operator ID until January (so that it can be done at the same time as we all renew our BMFA memberships)
With regards to this Exemption

a) I believe this Exemption needs to be carried from 30th November if one doesn't yet have an Operator Id, is this correct?

Yes, that is correct.


b) does the Exemption need to be on paper or could it be saved (for example as JPG or PDF) on one's phone.


It should be sufficient to have it on your phone.


c) regardless of if it's on paper or phone, does it have to be carried on one's person or could it be for example in one's car (assuming the the car is within sight of the pilot) or in the Clubhouse (if one were flying in flying club grounds)


As long as it can be easily produced when requested by the police.

Waters no longer muddied, just slightly tinted by the word "should" but good enough for me!

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MattyB

MattyB

Posted
Posted
Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 27/11/2019 18:15:45:

The relevant exemptions will be in the next issue of the BMFA news to pull out and keep.

Should work perfectly for all those who tell us they throw it straight in the bin on principle... wink 2

Note - Yes the above is a slightly a cheap joke, but I have been amazed at how many of the questions posed here and in particular on FB could have been answered by members of the Associations carefully reading the materials put out by the CAA, BMFA, LMA etc. Yes the situation has been made more complicated by the number and variety of exemptions secured by the Associations, but the gist of it remains relatively simple - prove your competency by Nov 30th via the CAA test, BMFA test or one of the approved achievements, and ensure you are registered as an Operator by Jan 31st if flying models over 250g.

It won’t be a popular view, but I believe the number of these posts shows that a decent percentage of National Association members do need a brush up on the current ANO, so maybe the testing isn’t without some limited merit. I seem to remember a recent news article on the BMFA site reflecting similar views. It also demonstrates a more general phenomenon of the modern world - SMEs in any subject struggle to get across accurate information amongst the sea of inaccurate content that can be rapidly shared and magnified via social media. It’s rather nicely summed up in this meme... wink 2

Edited By MattyB on 28/11/2019 23:01:18

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Andy Symons - BMFA

Andy Symons - BMFA

Posted
Posted
Posted by Tim Flyer on 29/11/2019 08:59:39:

I have a question. Some of our members who fly multi rotors have Commercial PFCO certificates can these be uploaded to BMFA Website and used as an exemption for the competency certificate ? Help appreciated 😊

No. The exemtion for BMFA members requires a BMFA competency.

However there is an exemption for PFCO holders from the competency test anyway.

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