Kevin 216 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I hold an A certificate but decided out of curiosity to do both the CAA and BMFA competency tests. They are not difficult and take very little time to complete. Its so easy to remain compliant, but its an individual's choice. I have not however registered as an Operator and will follow BMFA advice to use the exemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 20/11/2019 19:20:34: What principle exactly? A law has been passed and I need to obey that law to pursue my hobby lawfully. And that makes me a sheeple with no principles? Okay, before I say anything, let me state that I am going to do the test and pay my £9. So trying to take a neutral view I can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand the law is pretty trivial and it doesn’t take much in terms or money for most of us to comply with it. And for most of us, paying the fee and taking the test will be the end of it, we will carry on as if nothing has happened and plod will never visit our flying fields. On the other hand it is a stupid law, one that is practically unenforcible and serves no real purpose. And remember that laws can be wrong. I’m not going to name any because you will say that they are not comparable, which is true because this is such a trivial pathetic law. But it doesn’t take much effort to look back in history, at our country and other countries or even in the news today, to find laws which are wrong, enforced, but wrong. But as to this silly pathetic law I can only see two real issues 1) that the CAA have produced a system that is unaffordable and at the end of the first year they come back and say, sorry we are going to have to raise the fee to £25 and then £50 and so on 2) I’m not an FPV pilot but I can see their hobby being deeply impacted. For most of us, we won’t even notice anything different, but an FPV pilot who abides with the law is going to lose a lot of what makes the hobby enjoyable for them. Maybe one other minor concern. Does this law require me to police it. If I am at my club or out and about and I see someone flying in breach of the regulations, am I supposed to tackle them, am I supposed to report it to the Police or is it okay for me to mind my own business. Cheers, Nigel Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 10:43:05 Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 10:47:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 In terms of the fees rising. The CAA have secured funding to enable the cost to remain low. Originally they had to have it self funding but it seems the DFT have given in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 10:41:36: Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 20/11/2019 19:20:34: What principle exactly? A law has been passed and I need to obey that law to pursue my hobby lawfully. And that makes me a sheeple with no principles? Okay, before I say anything, let me state that I am going to do the test and pay my £9. So trying to take a neutral view I can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand the law is pretty trivial and it doesn’t take much in terms or money for most of us to comply with it. And for most of us, paying the fee and taking the test will be the end of it, we will carry on as if nothing has happened and plod will never visit our flying fields. On the other hand it is a stupid law, one that is practically unenforcible and serves no real purpose. And remember that laws can be wrong. I’m not going to name any because you will say that they are not comparable, which is true because this is such a trivial pathetic law. But it doesn’t take much effort to look back in history, at our country and other countries or even in the news today, to find laws which are wrong, enforced, but wrong. But as to this silly pathetic law I can only see two real issues 1) that the CAA have produced a system that is unaffordable and at the end of the first year they come back and say, sorry we are going to have to raise the fee to £25 and then £50 and so on 2) I’m not an FPV pilot but I can see their hobby being deeply impacted. For most of us, we won’t even notice anything different, but an FPV pilot who abides with the law is going to lose a lot of what makes the hobby enjoyable for them. Maybe one other minor concern. Does this law require me to police it. If I am at my club or out and about and I see someone flying in breach of the regulations, am I supposed to tackle them, am I supposed to report it to the Police or is it okay for me to mind my own business. Cheers, Nigel Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 10:43:05 Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 10:47:49 None of what you wrote prevents simple compliance, so by not complying you either give up model flying or break the law when you fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 It's the fact that the goverment have made our hobby, as was, illegal and then charge us £9 and give us a hoop to jump through in order for us to be legal again that gets me. Suppose the governemnt had said "use of mobile phones while driving will be illegal and everybody who drives must pay £9 and pass an awareness test to comply with the law" can you imagine the uproar there would have been? We are just being done down and stamped on by this government because we are inconsequential nobodies as far as they are concerned. Is it any surprise that people are throwing their toys out of the pram? I'll just have to pay up and play their game spitting feathers 'cos I've got no real choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly boy3 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just a thought. I am wondering if the test and the £9 is just the final reason to give up the hobby. Is it possible that the op has many more reasons, age, sickness, failing eye sight, transport problems etc, that they were on the brink of giving up this great hobby anyway by no fault of their own ? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 10:41:36:................ 2) I’m not an FPV pilot but I can see their hobby being deeply impacted. For most of us, we won’t even notice anything different, but an FPV pilot who abides with the law is going to lose a lot of what makes the hobby enjoyable for them................. I am not sure I understand that.. I don't see how anything has changed for FPV - it's just that everyone needs to be registered and competent (or have exemptions) after 30th Nov. Distances from people and property and intruding into people's privacy with cameras is not changing. Flying out of sight is not changing. If people didn't know the law before but do now, then perhaps DRES is working as intended. The registration bit may be pointless and unenforceable but the education bit seems to be working. Or have I missed something? Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Bob Cotsford on 20/11/2019 22:40:02: we really need a 'like' button on here. Some excellent responses to being called sheeple, 'order followers' - sounds a bit 1945 trials to me but I'm not a moderator - for accepting that our objections were not sufficient to stop legislation but were enough to moderate (that word again!) it's application. In the '70s I objected to being forced to wear a crash helmet. I was happy to wear one on my own initiative but being a rebellious teenager I wasn't happy accepting orders. It was the principle of the thing! Luckily I believe that I have now matured and accept that mine isn't always the only valid opinion, now I abide by the laws of the land in the hope that it will allow me to quietly carry on without uncalled for legal issues. If the law calls for me to kill or torture my Asian neighbours I may reconsider, but we haven't exactly reached that point yet. If that makes me a sheeple, if it means I say 'I'm only following orders', if it means I'm surrendering (God alone knows exactly what I'm supposed to be surrendering, whatever) then I could care less because I can go and fly my planes just as I always have. With the rise of the insults I think I really am out of here this time. It just isn't needed. Couldn't agree more, Bob. This legislation probably won't work all that well in stopping what has always been stupid and inconsiderate use of (mostly) FPV quads etc but then, legislation making theft illegal doesn't stop people stealing either. It's not as though the UK/EU are the only countries in the world to introduce legislation in an attempt to control use of RC models. It's happening over most of might be called the western world. We just have to suck it up. I have an 'A' cert and am a member of the BMFA so I'll pay my extra £9 by whatever means is advanced and carry on playing with my toys. None of the regulation will affect how or what I fly (with possible exception of the height limit when I fly an electric glider) and £9 is trivial compared with what spend anyway. I haven't (and won't) work out what my current build will cost but it will be around £400 in the air I supect and that's just one item. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Geoff Sleath on 21/11/2019 11:38:37:.................... ............None of the regulation will affect how or what I fly (with possible exception of the height limit when I fly an electric glider) .............................. Geoff If your glider weighs less than 7Kg and you are a BMFA member you have an exemption from the height limit An exemption I have been using regularly since earlier this summer. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Wingman on 21/11/2019 11:15:35: It's the fact that the goverment have made our hobby, as was, illegal and then charge us £9 and give us a hoop to jump through in order for us to be legal again that gets me. Suppose the governemnt had said "use of mobile phones while driving will be illegal and everybody who drives must pay £9 and pass an awareness test to comply with the law" can you imagine the uproar there would have been? We are just being done down and stamped on by this government because we are inconsequential nobodies as far as they are concerned. Is it any surprise that people are throwing their toys out of the pram? I'll just have to pay up and play their game spitting feathers 'cos I've got no real choice. Wouldn't the analogy be that the £9 payment would allow you to use your mobile phone? I don't want to pay a fee to enjoy my hobby but while I campaigned against it to the best of my ability, the legal and democratic process has resulted in its imposition and I see no justification for flouting what is now law, just because I consider it unnecessary and futile in its effectiveness against malicious intent - although as we probably all realise, there are other interests involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Thanks for that Dick. My Phoenix 2K is the only model I have with altitude telemetry (and that's just for my amusement) and my eyesight means that I rarely go to 200 metres - visibility has to be very good - but I do like to climb that high sometimes and see how long I can stay up before spot landing. It does, of course, weigh a lot less than 7kg. So, apart from the £9, I'll be unaffected. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Dickw on 21/11/2019 11:24:44: Posted by Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 10:41:36:................ 2) I’m not an FPV pilot but I can see their hobby being deeply impacted. For most of us, we won’t even notice anything different, but an FPV pilot who abides with the law is going to lose a lot of what makes the hobby enjoyable for them................. I am not sure I understand that.. I don't see how anything has changed for FPV - it's just that everyone needs to be registered and competent (or have exemptions) after 30th Nov. Distances from people and property and intruding into people's privacy with cameras is not changing. Flying out of sight is not changing. If people didn't know the law before but do now, then perhaps DRES is working as intended. The registration bit may be pointless and unenforceable but the education bit seems to be working. Or have I missed something? Dick Every FPV pilot I have seen flying, including the ones at the club would be breaking the law if they continue to fly as they do. Two issues immediately 1) Not flying out of sight - the ones I have seen flying are doing this all the time 2) Having a dedicated spotter to maintain line of sight at all times. Never seen one with a dedicated spotter. Also I have watched out of interest and I was not able to keep track of them even when they weren’t obstructed - too small, too fast, too erratic, too many in the air at the same time. Unless I am mistaken, I don’t think the law required this before now, so big change in the way they fly. Cheers, Nigel Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 12:34:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Steve J on 21/11/2019 11:34:03: Posted by Chris Berry on 21/11/2019 10:56:40: Originally they had to have it self funding but it seems the DFT have given in. According to CAP 1804, the DMARES is still self funding. In the response to consultation document the CAA issued it stated that they have made some revisions to the funding model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Martin Harris on 21/11/2019 12:19:31: Wouldn't the analogy be that the £9 payment would allow you to use your mobile phone?. As long as you comply with all regulations pertaining to its use(!) carry a copy of relevant exemptions and stick a ID label on the phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 12:32:59:...................... Two issues immediately 1) Not flying out of sight - the ones I have seen flying are doing this all the time 2) Having a dedicated spotter to maintain line of sight at all times. Never seen one with a dedicated spotter. Also I have watched out of interest and I was not able to keep track of them even when they weren’t obstructed - too small, too fast, too erratic, too many in the air at the same time. Unless I am mistaken, I don’t think the law required this before now, so big change in the way they fly. Cheers, Nigel Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 12:34:53 Nigel Those requirements have been in force for several years, and have been part of the Mandatory questions in the BMFA Achievement scheme tests for several years. If people have been ignorant of this, or ignoring it, that just supports the CAA's case for DRES. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 "flouting what is now law, just because I consider it unnecessary and futile in its effectiveness against malicious intent" At the risk of repeating what has been said a huge number of times already, the prime intent is to support commercialisation of 400-1000ft region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Dickw on 21/11/2019 12:47:31: Posted by Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 12:32:59:...................... Two issues immediately 1) Not flying out of sight - the ones I have seen flying are doing this all the time 2) Having a dedicated spotter to maintain line of sight at all times. Never seen one with a dedicated spotter. Also I have watched out of interest and I was not able to keep track of them even when they weren’t obstructed - too small, too fast, too erratic, too many in the air at the same time. Unless I am mistaken, I don’t think the law required this before now, so big change in the way they fly. Cheers, Nigel Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 12:34:53 Nigel Those requirements have been in force for several years, and have been part of the Mandatory questions in the BMFA Achievement scheme tests for several years. If people have been ignorant of this, or ignoring it, that just supports the CAA's case for DRES. Dick I wasn’t aware of that. In that case virtually every FPV pilot I have seen, and most of the UK drone videos that get uploaded has been breaking the law. Cheers, Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 If only there was some kind of national education, proof of competence and registration scheme to stop such behaviour.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_K Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Arrest for FPV offence, 7 May 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Well, I think the whole thread is now going around in circles and getting nowhere. We all know the rules and what’s involved. Like it or lump it........I’m off this thread , goodbye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 21/11/2019 16:26:10: If only there was some kind of national education, proof of competence and registration scheme to stop such behaviour.... If only the authorities had enforced it in the first place. If you are saying the legislation already existed what is the need for a registration system. There should have been arrests all over place. As I said, most of the FPV flying I have seen and most of the UK drone videos I have seen uploaded has apparently been done illegally and yet the Police have done nothing about it. Cheers, Nigel Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 16:44:18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I think what I'm really saying is that you didn't know the rules Nigel. Perhaps some good may yet come out of this scheme... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_K Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Posted by Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 16:43:57: As I said, most of the FPV flying I have seen and most of the UK drone videos I have seen uploaded has apparently been done illegally and yet the Police have done nothing about it. Cheers, Nigel Edited By Nigel Heather on 21/11/2019 16:44:18 Nothing? Maybe not at your flying field. I just posted a link referring to the UAV team at Lincolnshire Police. I have previously posted about the Met Police arriving at flying sites. (Proximity to Heathrow and the London Helicopter Lanes may mean the law is more 'on the case' in my district). As has been said umpteen times in these threads, pilots with a Flyer ID will no longer be able to claim ignorance of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.