CAA Operator Identity

[Mike Etheridge 1]

I have just received an E-mail from the CAA stating that my Operator ID needs to be renewed costing £9.00. I went model flying yesterday for the first time this year and got three flights in. My flying like I assume many others has been restricted at both my flying clubs by the Coved 19 virus, and I can only assume that this additional need to pay out extra money could be a 'last straw' so that people may drop the hobby?.

Surely the pirate Drone flyers will not apply for a CAA Identity anyway.

Anyone got any thoughts?

[leccyflyer]

Despite applying for my CAA Operator Registration Number in November, I didn't receive the number until 28th February - well after the deadline. Are the CAA sending these out a year after the number is issued? I read here that if you don;t renew by January you wiill get an entirely new number - which means changing the label on 40-50 models.

However, if anyone is going to stop the hobby for the sake of not paying £9, they really needs to take a long hard look at that - I know you could buy three cheap servos, or half a tube of Stabilit Express, but it's less than the price of two fish suppers (or two copies of RCM&E) and shouldn't be a factor to make folks pack it all in.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Renewals will only be due for those that rushed to register directly with the CAA last November, nobody's registration for those who registered through the BMFA will expire before 17th Feb 2021.

[leccyflyer]

Thanks Andy - that does sound like we won;t have the option of keeping our original numbers though- if what has been posted here is correct.

[kc]

Only 3 flights for your 9 pounds sounds a bit steep but it's cheaper than golf etc etc!

I have managed 270 flights for my 9 pounds worth so that's about 3 pence per flight.

It's like TV licences - easy to get away without one but if they catch you they probably clobber you hard. But it could also be dealt with like TV licences could - work out the annual licence fee as a percentage of Income Tax received, abolish the licence fee and just add that percentage to income tax and save all the administration. Everybody wins except the rich!

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by leccyflyer on 19/10/2020 18:01:46:

Thanks Andy - that does sound like we won;t have the option of keeping our original numbers though- if what has been posted here is correct.

For those that renew before 1st Jan they will have the same number, but only for 1 more year, those that renew after will get a new number that will then stay with you.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Having checked my current Operator ID and flyer ID it would seem that my Operator ID will be different in the next year as detailed in the CAA E-mail. I will make my application and see what happens to my Flyer ID.

Having applied, both my Flyer ID and Operator ID have changed.

Thanks for the responses, I have not given up the hobby yet but it was a close thing !

[MattyB]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 19/10/2020 21:14:39:

Having checked my current Operator ID and flyer ID it would seem that my Operator ID will be different in the next year as detailed in the CAA E-mail. I will make my application and see what happens to my Flyer ID.

Having applied, both my Flyer ID and Operator ID have changed.

Thanks for the responses, I have not given up the hobby yet but it was a close thing !

Why did you reapply for the Flyer ID? They last 3 years! Doh...

Edited By MattyB on 19/10/2020 22:01:16

[Bob Cotsford]

Mike, did you use the Renew option? I renewed my OpID this morning and my ID remains the same as last year.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

All I did was respond to the E-mail sent to me and followed the instructions. I get the impression there is inconsistency somewhere in the operations / procedures. I did not apply initially through my clubs or the BMFA. I did the online CAA test and passed and then applied through the CAA. Why any changes in identity are necessary I have not got a clue so perhaps I can be enlightened? I bet I am not the only one that is subjected to identity changes.

I will have another look at the CAA E-mail. Fortunately I have only one plane to alter the flyer identity on, thankfully not the 30 or 40 planes in my loft.

Having looked at  the E-mail sent to me by the CAA it shows my details that expire in 2020 different to what I was sent last year and marked on my plane. 

I will attempt to confirm the above statement but cannot copy and paste the details at present.

 

** item removed by moderator to respect poster's privacy **

 

 

Edited By David Ashby - Moderator on 20/10/2020 10:50:47

[Simon Chaddock]

I am pretty certain the CAA 'renew' bit was not working up to a few days ago, it is 'Beta' software. After left feed back on their site I got an email from the CAA suggesting I renew my Operators ID.

Logged onto the site and, low and behold, there was a 'renew' button that I swear was not there before.

Renewed for £9 no problem and it tells you to keep the same OP number till next year's renewal.

Edited By Simon Chaddock on 19/10/2020 23:41:57

[Dickw]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 19/10/2020 23:19:25:

.................... Why any changes in identity are necessary I have not got a clue so perhaps I can be enlightened? I bet I am not the only one that is subjected to identity changes.

...........................................

Having looked at the E-mail sent to me by the CAA it shows my details that expire in 2020 different to what I was sent last year and marked on my plane.

...................

 

 

 

Mike

For some reason you appear to have two completely separate registrations (OP IDs) both expiring in ~2 weeks time on the 8th November. Which one have you been trying to renew, or have you renewed both?

re "change of identity". The current IDs are UK only, but from 1st Jan the plan is for them to be Europe wide - hence the need for a different, and probably longer, numbering system. Makes sense to me, as it will avoid people who travel having to register in lots of different countries.

Dick

Edited By David Ashby - Moderator on 20/10/2020 10:51:04

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Sorry Mike, but I think your registration details are best kept private, hence the pic removal.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Thanks David, I was in two minds whether to include details of my identities on this site, but neither that I indicated are relevant to 2020-2021, they are different references to the new references I have been allocated.

Dickw, I have only made one registration in the past but in life I have met at least two other Mike Etheridges. One was a Quantty Surveyor working on the same building scheme as me. The other quite by chance was standing in the same lift car as me at a local hospital. A nurse called out ''Mike Etheridge'' and we both answered ''Yes''-she wanted him!--I wonder if either or both are aeromodellers?

[MattyB]

Mike, I'm not trying to be pedantic but there are a few things in your previous post that are worth clarifying...

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 19/10/2020 23:19:25:

All I did was respond to the E-mail sent to me and followed the instructions. I get the impression there is inconsistency somewhere in the operations / procedures. I did not apply initially through my clubs or the BMFA. I did the online CAA test and passed and then applied through the CAA. Why any changes in identity are necessary I have not got a clue so perhaps I can be enlightened? I bet I am not the only one that is subjected to identity changes.

...Having looked at the E-mail sent to me by the CAA it shows my details that expire in 2020 different to what I was sent last year and marked on my plane.

Are you saying that the CAA emailed you and specifically requested you renew your Flyer ID in addition to your Operator ID? Or did you just interpret their email to renew the Op ID as you having to renew both? If the CAA are requesting Flyer ID tests be retaken after a year they need to have it pointed out to them that is an error on their part.

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 19/10/2020 23:19:25:

...I will have another look at the CAA E-mail. Fortunately I have only one plane to alter the flyer identity on, thankfully not the 30 or 40 planes in my loft.

Key point - It's the Operator ID that goes on the plane, not the Flyer ID. Remember it is the Operator who is legally responsible for the model, not the flyer (who for instance could be a junior under 13 so cannot be an Operator, or just another pilot borrowing a model). If you have put the Flyer ID on it, you need to change that asap. If in any doubt as to what to do follow the CAAs instructions that I posted above...

Edited By MattyB on 20/10/2020 12:57:38

[MattyB]

Another facepalm moment coming courtesy of our friends at the CAA...

This thread reminded me I needed to update my address as I've moved house since I registered my Flyer ID. I went to the CAA site to log into their portal... except you can't! That's right, you have to email or phone them with any changes, and the details they want on email would in aggregate be considered as Personally Identifiable Information (PII) by the GDPR regs:

Utterly ridiculous, and I have fed back to that effect. What did that £9 pay for? Certainly not anyone who'd ever had anything to do with a website that allows the creation and management of PI...

[Peter Christy]

I keep saying this, but no-one listens!

Just do it through the BMFA.

End of problems!

--

Pete

[MattyB]

Posted by Peter Christy on 20/10/2020 15:00:25:

I keep saying this, but no-one listens!

Just do it through the BMFA.

I did for Op ID, but the Flyer ID was done before there was an online BMFA Registration Competency Test available (I don't have an A and took the test more out of inquisitiveness to see how easy or difficult it was). I also felt (and still do) that it is easier to hold the official CAA "qualification" that gives you a Flyer ID than carry and have to explain to law enforcement all the exemptions that allow BMFA members to operate without a Flyer ID.

Anyway that is fundamentally irrelevant to the update piece - any registered person should be able to update their details online if they change address, irrelevant of how they registered in the first place. It's bad design which over time will lead to poor quality data.

Edited By MattyB on 20/10/2020 16:01:57

[MattyB]

Why am I not surprised...

"Thank you for contacting the Drone and Model Aircraft Registration Team. We have received your email, and our support team will be in touch with you soon.

Emails received are acknowledged and responded to within five working days.

Where we can't resolve your enquiry at the first point of contact, it'll be passed on to the relevant department. You should usually expect a response within ten working days."

[Peter Christy]

I hear what you are saying, Matty, but my point is that the CAA are clearly struggling to get this to work properly - probably done by the same people as the original (disastrous!) "Track & Trace" stuff.

By doing it through the BMFA, it is they who have to sort out issues with the CAA, and not you, the individual!

Life is too short to try and teach the government how to write proper software.....!

--

Pete

[MattyB]

Posted by Peter Christy on 20/10/2020 16:20:14:

By doing it through the BMFA, it is they who have to sort out issues with the CAA, and not you, the individual!

You cannot create a Flyer ID through the BMFA. To allow them to handle this for me I would have to take their version of the CAA test to acquire the BMFA competency certificate. I'd then have to carry that and the exemptions around with me at all times when flying, and potentially have to explain them on a cold hillside to a law enforcement officer, none of which I need to do if I use my existing Flyer ID. Even if I did take the BMFA's test we don't actually know that changes of address will be handled by the BMFA's periodic transfers to the CAA(if it is only incremental dbase updates for new joiners it won't be). Perhaps Andy S can clarify that point.

Anyway, fundamentally this is basic functionality - anybody who has registered should be able to go into CAA systems and update their info, irrelevant of the way that info was originally placed there. Constantly telling me to use the BMFA (which I have done, as far as I was able to do so given I don't have an A) doesn't change that fact and isn't helpful. The fact they have off the shelf functionality the could have reused from no end of other systems served via the Gov website is all the more baffling.

Edited By MattyB on 20/10/2020 18:15:41

[Martin_K]

Posted by MattyB on 20/10/2020 17:50:44:

.... The fact they have off the shelf functionality the could have reused from no end of other systems served via the Gov website is all the more baffling.

A couple of weeks ago I received a letter from TV Licensing to my correct address (where I have lived about 30 years) but to a person I have never heard of. It was a No Licence Needed confirmation, thanking the other person for telling TV Licensing that no licence was needed at my address.

I Emailed TV licencing saying there is no such person at my address and questioning what data validation they do when a current licence already exists for a specific address in their database?

I have had a second letter from TV Licensing, to the other person, confirming that no licence is needed at my address.

Resistance is useless.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I'm going call lol on that one Matty, we've spent the last 20 years (I know it seems longer) writing ream upon ream on this topic, but a quick chat with plod is onerous, to be stood on a Cold hill chatting to plod, you'd have to be out on a Cold hill already, wrap up warm folks.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

In conclusion from my point of view if I had lost a model plane or been responsible for drone crime over the last year the registration reference on my model/drone may well have not been identified by the CAA,.so this system has not worked for me and to date has cost me £18.00. I had no idea this was the case when I started this blog.

As has been pointed out anyone without an A certificate had to pass the CAA exam first before applying for registration, so application through the BMFA was not an option.

[MattyB]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 21/10/2020 09:41:09:

In conclusion from my point of view if I had lost a model plane or been responsible for drone crime over the last year the registration reference on my model/drone may well have not been identified by the CAA,.so this system has not worked for me and to date has cost me £18.00. I had no idea this was the case when I started this blog.

As has been pointed out anyone without an A certificate had to pass the CAA exam first before applying for registration, so application through the BMFA was not an option.

PM sent Mike...