Covid Vax......club passports?.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Paul C.]

'Smallpox outbreak caused by vaccination ' don't recall that event , could you post a link to the info I would be interested researching that incident in view of the current events.

[GONZO]

Stu, disparaging remarks do not make legitimate argument. I'm not an 'anti-vaxxer'. But, I am anti this new vaccine for the reasons set out in my explanatory post.

[Braddock, VC]

Posted by Martin Harris on 04/12/2020 19:08:04:

I'm thinking of developing paranoia but would people talk about me if I did?

One person mentions an idea that clubs might require vaccination passports - and we have people giving up on BMFA/club membership because of a rather nebulous suggestion which just appears to have been put out as an idea for discussion!

Is there any suggestion that this idea has any basis in fact - from the BMFA, government or any other organisation - it's certainly the first I've heard of it.

I think this is symptomatic of this forum, to quote the press it's woke.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Braddock, VC on 04/12/2020 19:39:29:

Posted by Martin Harris on 04/12/2020 19:08:04:

I'm thinking of developing paranoia but would people talk about me if I did?

One person mentions an idea that clubs might require vaccination passports - and we have people giving up on BMFA/club membership because of a rather nebulous suggestion which just appears to have been put out as an idea for discussion!

Is there any suggestion that this idea has any basis in fact - from the BMFA, government or any other organisation - it's certainly the first I've heard of it.

 

I think this is symptomatic of this forum, to quote the press it's woke.

Time it had a Nap.

 

Edited By john stones 1 on 04/12/2020 19:43:24

[GONZO]

Paul. No it's something I read last year and as the search algorithms have been hard at work covering up any negative comments about vaccines you'll have to do your own research. It was however, I'm sure, back in the last century.

[Paul C.]

Ok Gonzo 👍 was just interested in seeing what had transpired , will dig around see if I can find some info.

[GONZO]

As an additional bit of info there was many children in India crippled by a polio vaccine program this century. I'll try to get a link. But, it's commonly accepted that some people will always be damaged by a vaccine, any vaccine. It's the cost benefit equation.

Edited By GONZO on 04/12/2020 19:56:57

Edited By GONZO on 04/12/2020 20:18:55

[Gary Manuel]

I though the Oxford vaccine, which is the one that most of us will receive was based on more tried and tested methods than the mRNA ones.

[SIMON CRAGG]

Latest BMFA update suggests we can have more than six at the flying patch, as long as they adhere to the "Covid Secure" guidelines.

Having read them, don't think we will be increasing our numbers anytime soon .For starters, I think it would be virtually impossible to get a so called "Track & Trace" member, to keep tabs on all the movements.

Probably best stick to six am, and six pm as we have done in the past.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by GONZO on 04/12/2020 19:55:20:

As an additional bit of info there was many children in India crippled by a polio vaccine program this century. I'll try to get a link. But, it's commonly accepted that some people will always be damaged by a vaccine, any vaccine. It's the cost benefit equation.

Edited By GONZO on 04/12/2020 19:56:57

Edited By GONZO on 04/12/2020 20:18:55

Choice is yours Gonzo, no wish to influence anyone myself.

India ? Reads like the Oral vaccine may be at fault there, as opposed to the jab given numbers ?

[GONZO]

Gary, don't know much about that one but will investigate fully when imminent for deployment. But, since I was made very ill, 18 months under the chest dept of the hospital, by a flu jab I had in late 2014 I'm very cagey about any vaccine. I've never had another flu jab nor do I ever intend to. Unfortunately I have NO faith in the medical profession anymore as they have nearly killed me 4 times in the past 15 years and I do not exaggerate.

Paul, here's a link to a video that is 45 min long, just give it a chance. Bear in mind that this guy provides a transcript of the show with links to the official documents to back up his comments.

Polio and Tetanus vaccine

You may wish to look at a few of his other video's, they will also have transcripts with links to documents to back up his comments.

[Paul C.]

Cheers Gonzo will check it out tomorrow, early start in the morning it's a travelling day.

[J D 8]

You do what you want GONZO. Not playing on your emotions, just telling what happened to me.

[GONZO]

Unfortunately, I suspect the government will play sneaky. It'll be voluntary and 'they' will not use coercion. Compulsion and coercion would mean they fall foul of the Nuremburg Code. But, behind the scenes I think they may persuade employers, shops, theatres, stadiums, airlines, hotels, etc to require this vaccine/health passport. Thus, private companies would be using coercion and I don't believe they fall under the remit of the Nuremburg Code (glad to be corrected if I'm wrong).

[Piers Bowlan]

Fact:- Polio has been eradicated in India since 2014 due to vaccination (The last case was 2011 - Source; W.H.O.) There have been problems with the oral version of the vaccine in India but historically that has been 1 in 2.7 million vaccinations (source; W.H.O.) In fact the only countries in the world where polio hasn't been eradicated are Pakistan, Nigeria and Afghanistan. (Source; WHO) Polio used to kill and cripple millions globally prior to the vaccination .

Step into an aeroplane or car, walk down a flight of stairs, light up a fag or pour a glass of wine. With all these things there is risk but it is so small that we all do them. With life there is risk. You talk about a 'cost benefit equation' Gonzo, exactly right, the 'risk' of vaccination is vanishingly small compared with the benefit.

As for 'the government playing sneaky'... Once a Covid 19 vaccination is widely available, no one should have the right to risk other peoples health/life by traveling in an aeroplane un-vaccinated. I think that is fair.

[GrumpyGnome]

Assuming the vaccine works (obviously all reports say it is), I will certainly take the risk of having it. In my opinion that risk far outweighs the cost, in many ways, of this pandemic.

I will then be protected from those that exercise their right to choose not to be vaccinated. So, those who do not get vaccinated can only affect me in 2 ways:

a) financially - the cost of the NHS treating those that choose to opt out and get infected (same argument for any self-inflicted health issue of course!)

b) if there are enough opting out to result in a continued impact from the virus.

Paradoxically, it is better for everyone (including Gonzo) for Gonzo to be part of as small a majority as possible as that naturally reduces the risk of infection.

I can see that some organisations may choose to try and 'force' vaccinations, but my simplistic brain thinks this would be a violation of human rights. And even though the current government maintains the ability to surprise in their decision making (before any debate starts, I am not posing any political bias), I would be astonished if they ever tried to make it mandatory. Of course, some organisations may choose to make vaccination a rule of entry to membership, but I personally doubt it due to potential legal challenges and associated costs.

Just my two-pennurth with no deprecating comments so hopefully no offence caused....

GG

[Piers Bowlan]

Any UK airline and specifically the Captain, can refuse carriage to any passenger provided it is not on the grounds of race, sex, gender or age. An individual is at liberty to make a legal challenge but unless a law is passed in the UK to prohibit discrimination against unvaccinated persons they will be wasting their time and money as far as airline travel is concerned.

Just my two-pennurth!

PS. The main driver for the international spread of the Covid19 virus is airline travel, so having a travel ban on unvaccinated persons makes quite a bit of sense. To me, at any rate.

[Gary Murphy 1]

Posted by GONZO on 04/12/2020 18:05:20:

I have no intention of having it ever. From official stats there is a 99% recovery and for some one like me, a 73 year old diabetic, it's 95%. If and it's a big if I put my position in writing, as it is still voluntary, and got a written guarantee from the BMFA and club that they would refund all my money in the event of a change of rules that would require me to take the vaccine to continue to use the field(coercion) then I may consider it.

I am with you regards no wanting OR having the jab. I have also have heard talk of some sort of card system to show if you have had it! think this is totally wrong.

If people are worried about getting covid then get the jab,dont make everyone have to have it.

Aso all the people who are fretting about waiting for the jab have most likely had covid with no symptons AND yes I know the "experts" say you can get it multiple times.

That huge "overflow"/ "crisis" temporary covid hospital that was set up in London docklands, is that full or even being used does anyone know? do not see much activity when I go past it several times a week.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Gary Murphy 1 on 05/12/2020 11:11:37:

Posted by GONZO on 04/12/2020 18:05:20:

I have no intention of having it ever. From official stats there is a 99% recovery and for some one like me, a 73 year old diabetic, it's 95%. If and it's a big if I put my position in writing, as it is still voluntary, and got a written guarantee from the BMFA and club that they would refund all my money in the event of a change of rules that would require me to take the vaccine to continue to use the field(coercion) then I may consider it.

I am with you regards no wanting OR having the jab. I have also have heard talk of some sort of card system to show if you have had it! think this is totally wrong.

If people are worried about getting covid then get the jab,dont make everyone have to have it.

Aso all the people who are fretting about waiting for the jab have most likely had covid with no symptons AND yes I know the "experts" say you can get it multiple times.

That huge "overflow"/ "crisis" temporary covid hospital that was set up in London docklands, is that full or even being used does anyone know? do not see much activity when I go past it several times a week.

Plan for the worst, hope for it not to happen Gary, Hospitals coped, and also did we have the staff numbers ?

[Engine Doctor]

What has happened to the "NIGHTINGALE HOSPITALS" that we heard so much about a the beginning of this outbreak ?

Our Hospitals are full of Covid patients and other who are seriously ill with other illnesses like cancer who cant get there treatment. will they be marked as Covid deaths , probably not.

So why cant the Covid patients be moved to the Nightingale hospitals so that mainstream Hospitals can carry on treating other illnesses ? .

Simple really , due to previous governments of any party removing funding from the NHS by stealth, we now have a staff shortage of doctors and qualified nurses by the thousands. So no one to man the Nightingale Hospitals . Yes all kept very quiet as it usually is when a government is embarrassed.

[Gary Manuel]

Those of you who think that it is ok to not have the jab because it's your choice and will not affect anyone else are simply wrong.

 

Read THIS.

Edited By Gary Manuel on 05/12/2020 13:14:49

[GONZO]

Well it's obvious that some did not even bother to fully listen/watch the video and then went on to quote the WHO propaganda.

For a death to be classified 'covid' you have to have tested positive in the past 28 days, your corpse tests positive or 'covid' is mention somewhere in the medical notes. You can fall off a building, drown or even be run over by a steam roller and be classed as a 'covid' death if the bizarre criteria are met. There have been cases where people have died in accidents but the accident insurance will not pay out because they have been classified a 'covid' death. The PCR test goes on to support and magnify this false data. It is not 'covid' specific and responds to all corona virus genetic material, partial or even inactive. The cycle count used to boost up the genetic material under test should be limited to no more than 35 for any degree of confidence in the result. Many labs here, on the continent and in the USA use up to 45. The man who developed the test is on video record saying the test should NOT be used for screening but only as a diagnostic aid in patients that are displaying symptoms. The PCR test is grossly inaccurate giving many false positives. Information abounds on this if you care to investigate. From this it can easily be seen that the whole crisis is a pack of cards built on foundations of sand. Don't misunderstand me, I am not denying 'covid' or in any way making light of the very real tragedy of those who have died. But, there has been and continues to be a massive and contrived over exaggeration of the death rate and infection rate via the death criteria and inappropriate use of an inaccurate test. Is it coincidence that deaths from other causes fell dramatically as 'covid' deaths rose, flu especially?

This false data has been used to drive the rhetoric that has led to the actions taken. Actions that to my mind and those of many serious scientists and data analysts appear to have more to do with people and population control than disease control. I could post links but as I've found in the past people now just 'believe' as if it's become some sort of religion.

No one ever called for vaccination certificates, or even thought about such things, in the past to allow you to access/use UK facilities for diseases:- Flu (10,000 's excess deaths every winter) Winter Flu Deaths, measles, mumps, hepatitis, meningitis, diphtheria, etc. All are endemic here along with many others. The true data about 'covid' does not justify such a measure.

Nightingale in London only had 86 patients in total.

My local hospital sent nurses home on full pay back in the first 'house arrest' period because they had nothing to do.

NHS staff shortages - mainly due to use of inaccurate PCR test giving false positives causing many, and those they may have been in contact with, to self isolate. In recent weeks there was approx 70,000 off due to this.

The Astra Zeneca vaccine much the same as the other two but uses mDNA (messenger DNA). No one is messing with my DNA using a very new technology on the back of such a week reason as 'covid'.

AstraZeneca Vaccine Explained

I quite expect from the attitudes expressed here and elsewhere that I will become the modern day equivalent of the heretic/witch of the middle ages and have the 'mob' howling for my blood.

I've been disparagingly called a 'conspiracy theorist' and to put on my tin foil hat in the past. But, 12 - 15 months back if I'd have said to you next year people will willingly agree to be subjected to house arrest for 12 weeks and then for further periods, agree to not travel where they want when they want, to not associate with who they want when they want even in their own home, would not be allow to cross county boundaries(Wales) with police camera vans checking, have police chiefs state they will be checking peoples shopping baskets at supper markets to make sure they have only purchased essential items, have police rigorously enforce no entry onto the beach even in non tourist location where I am, have police drones follow walkers in the peaks, people would be convinced to wear ineffective pieces of cloth across their face in the mistaken belief that they would stop the virus, have another police chief state he would force entry into homes at Christmas if he had information the 'allowed' numbers were being exceeded, be told that pubs and restaurants can only stay open until 18:00hrs and only serve non alcoholic drinks(the virus can tell the time and if your drinking alcohol??), etc. The list goes on and on. Well guess what it would not have been a conspiracy theory although it sure would have sounded like a paranoid conspiracy theory.

But, people are easily convinced by officialdom. The main thing I can suggest is don't voluntarily sit down in front of the psychological condition equipment, the TV and soak up all the fearmongering propaganda push out at you. I've not watch broadcast TV for some time.

Disparaging condemnation coming my way in lorry loads no doubt.

[SIMON CRAGG]

For what its worth, I am keen to get my vaccinations asap.

Seventy years old, but luckily no health issues at all.

If I need a passport or some sort of "Covid Visa", no problem, just tell me where to sign.

Just hoping we can just move on, and get on with our "Fun" hobby, and leave this sorry saga in the past.

[DaveyP]

Gonzo, well said, you and I are in total agreement. People really do need to look at what is going on in their local hospitals, mine Bournemouth, is deserted.

I had an appointment there last week, a flow test and an ultrasound, I didn't have to pay for the car park as I was in and out within 20mins........