New 16iz transmitter - not compatible with FASST

[Ian Perry]

I have been thinking about a new Futaba transmitter. I had been thinking about the 16sz, but I have just seen the announcement for the brand new 16iz. This looks like a really nice transmitter, with the benefit that the aerial is embedded in the handle, rather than the normal position, that easily gets broken.

Looking at a forum post and then looking at the manual download, the 16iz WILL NOT work in the UK (EU) if you are using FASST or FASST7CH. So do not purchase this transmitter if using older receivers. I have 12 !!

The EU has changed the rules, and Futaba do not have grandfather rights to work with old FASST receivers. The newer gear works like Spektrum with unique model memory allocated to each receiver to prevent 'the wrong model' being flown in error.

The transmitter DOES support FASST but not within the EU !! Seems we are still included !

 

Looks like a 16sz for me, with a twig that's likely to get broken over time !

 

 

 

Edited By Ian Perry on 03/02/2021 19:59:38

Edited By Ian Perry on 03/02/2021 20:01:48

[Pete Collins]

Thanks for the heads up. I was also trying to decide between the SZ and the IZ. I also have lots of FASST Rx's. It seems that the EU is still screwing us up even though we've supposedly left!

[cymaz]

Thanks, it seems I will be with my old 9 cap for a while yet

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by Ian Perry on 03/02/2021 19:52:01:

I have been thinking about a new Futaba transmitter. I had been thinking about the 16sz, but I have just seen the announcement for the brand new 16iz. This looks like a really nice transmitter, with the benefit that the aerial is embedded in the handle, rather than the normal position, that easily gets broken.

Looking at a forum post and then looking at the manual download, the 16iz WILL NOT work in the UK (EU) if you are using FASST or FASST7CH. So do not purchase this transmitter if using older receivers. I have 12 !!

The EU has changed the rules, and Futaba do not have grandfather rights to work with old FASST receivers. The newer gear works like Spektrum with unique model memory allocated to each receiver to prevent 'the wrong model' being flown in error.

The transmitter DOES support FASST but not within the EU !! Seems we are still included !

 

Looks like a 16sz for me, with a twig that's likely to get broken over time !

 

 

 

 

Not the EU screwing us as Pete said, more likely that Ripmax, being the Futaba 'hub' for the entire EU, is not bothering to import the 'world' one for the UK.

It also means that if you want more than eight channels you are now forced to use the pointless and expensive S-Bus as the FHSS receivers only support a maximum of eight 'regular' channels.

Oh well, I was going to buy some Futaba gear as an alternative to the Multiplex stuff I use now so I don't have all my eggs in one basket.

That's the end of that idea. I'm glad I caught your post before spending the money. Thanks.

 

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 03/02/2021 23:13:54

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by Ian Perry on 03/02/2021 19:52:01:

I have been thinking about a new Futaba transmitter. I had been thinking about the 16sz, but I have just seen the announcement for the brand new 16iz. This looks like a really nice transmitter, with the benefit that the aerial is embedded in the handle, rather than the normal position, that easily gets broken.

Looking at a forum post and then looking at the manual download, the 16iz WILL NOT work in the UK (EU) if you are using FASST or FASST7CH. So do not purchase this transmitter if using older receivers. I have 12 !!

The EU has changed the rules, and Futaba do not have grandfather rights to work with old FASST receivers. The newer gear works like Spektrum with unique model memory allocated to each receiver to prevent 'the wrong model' being flown in error.

The transmitter DOES support FASST but not within the EU !! Seems we are still included !

 

Looks like a 16sz for me, with a twig that's likely to get broken over time !

 

 

 

Edited By Ian Perry on 03/02/2021 19:59:38

Edited By Ian Perry on 03/02/2021 20:01:48

I just checked the Ripmax site. Both the announcement on the front page and the list of transmitters.

The 16IZ does support FASSTest. FASST is not mentioned.

Futaba's idiotic "Let's confuse 'em with our pointless protocol soup" strikes again!!

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 04/02/2021 07:59:34

[Frank Skilbeck]

I can't understand why the new IZ16 doesn't support the older receivers, the 16SZ, 18SZ, 32MZ, all launched since the latest standard was introduced all do. Maybe it's more to stop the cloned receivers, or due to the £100 price difference to the 16SZ.

Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 04/02/2021 08:36:05

Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 04/02/2021 08:38:46

[Tim Flyer]

I would still buy the 16iz any day rather than the 16sz as the dreadful antenna breaks so easily as you mentioned . On my 14SG i have had three replacement antennas so far.

Regarding lots of channels without S BUS . On my larger models I use their excellent 14 channel receiver. 
Expensive but very good kit. 
https://www.nexusmodels.co.uk/p-r7014sb-futaba-r7014sb-fasst-fasstest-rx-2-4ghz-receiver.html?

Edited By Tim Flyer on 04/02/2021 08:55:35

[Tim Flyer]

From what I remember Fasst only goes up to 7 channels? Fasstest is by my default setting. Fasstest also allows you to change the receiver battery failsafe voltage and has full telemetry.

[i12fly]

For someone like me with 9 FASST receivers including half of them compatibles not original Futaba on a limited budget I guess I'd be best to start again on a new system with Radio master or Radio link or Spectrum? Futaba don't seem to be looking after me.

[Ian Perry]

Its not directly a Futaba (or Ripmax) issue as in the company, its the good old EU where ETSI has changed the transmitted power ruling meaning less power is allowed to be pumped out of the transmitter and that is not compatible with FASST receivers.

FASST is still a valid protocol / modulation technique in countries outside the EU, so if you read the manual for the 16iz, it shows up as a valid configuration selection. Which is where you could get confused!

If you read the 'specifications' section towards the front of the manual, it states 'not working in EU' in fairly small print.

The 16iz is compatible with -S-FHSS, T-FHSS and FASSTest modulation but for a lot of people to use it, that would mean purchasing new receivers as the 16iz is not backward compatible within the EU

I really want the advantages of the 16iz, but I cannot afford to purchase £600-1000 of replacement receivers!

[Frank Skilbeck]

How does FASSTest get round this, I thought it was only FASST with telemetry?

Seems strange that you can buy other recent transmitters from Futaba that do FASST, or is it that once those are sold then there will be no new FASST compatible transmitters.

When did these very latest regulations come into place.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Makes you wonder how Futaba got into this mess in the first place. I went to 2.4 GHz in 2009 after finding a system that provided telemetry which persuaded me to move on from my Futaba 35 MHz receivers (I used a plug in module in my FF10).

My original receivers and telemetry sensors are still in current use (Covid permitting) and work as well as the day I bought them with both my old transmitter module (kept for wireless buddy boxing) and a dedicated transmitter bought after a few years. Newer receivers offer more options but despite EU compliant transmitting standards changes and numerous enhancements, the manufacturer has offered backwardly compatible support for all its older equipment right back to the system's launch in 2009.

[kc]

The writing was on the wall years ago - I realised that Futaba no longer made a reasonable price FAAST Tx that could replace my 6EX 2.4 if it ever became unreliable or suffered physical damage. So there was no point in buying more FAAST Rx six or more years ago. I started buying Spektrum ......

[Dickw]

Futaba updated FASST to comply with the new regs when they came into force back in 2015, and all existing Futaba FASST Rx continued to work OK, although I believe there were some problems with some of the "FASST compatible" Rx from other manufacturers.

I am not aware of any recent regulatory changes that could cause the demise of FASST, but am ready to be educated.

Dick

[MattyB]

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 04/02/2021 08:33:06:

I can't understand why the new IZ16 doesn't support the older receivers, the 16SZ, 18SZ, 32MZ, all launched since the latest standard was introduced all do. Maybe it's more to stop the cloned receivers, or due to the £100 price difference to the 16SZ.

Almost certainly a commercial decision. The "new" FASST has been complaint since 2015 and remains so, they just want to cycle it out of their range as a) they have too many confusing protocols at this point, and b) they'd rather sell people more of their enormously expensive FASSTest and (lower priced) S-FHSS receivers.

Edited By MattyB on 04/02/2021 13:57:49

[MattyB]

Posted by Ian Perry on 04/02/2021 11:44:15:

Its not directly a Futaba (or Ripmax) issue as in the company, its the good old EU where ETSI has changed the transmitted power ruling meaning less power is allowed to be pumped out of the transmitter and that is not compatible with FASST receivers.

FASST is still a valid protocol / modulation technique in countries outside the EU, so if you read the manual for the 16iz, it shows up as a valid configuration selection. Which is where you could get confused!

If you read the 'specifications' section towards the front of the manual, it states 'not working in EU' in fairly small print.

Sorry, but the section highlighted in bold isn't correct - Futaba modified FASST when the ETSI regs changed in 2015, and it remains compliant to this day - they wouldn't be able to sell their legacy FASST sets here if it were not the case. If they have turned it off in EU 16IZs that is for commercial reasons not regulatory ones.

Posted by Ian Perry on 04/02/2021 11:44:15:

...The 16iz is compatible with -S-FHSS, T-FHSS and FASSTest modulation but for a lot of people to use it, that would mean purchasing new receivers as the 16iz is not backward compatible within the EU

I really want the advantages of the 16iz, but I cannot afford to purchase £600-1000 of replacement receivers!

You need to consider some alternative options...

• Buy the 16IZ, sell your old FASST RXs and replace them with S-FHSS clones from Frsky, Corona etc. They are ~£15-20 a receiver and you might get £5-10 each for your old FASST ones, so much cheaper than replacing with Futaba originals. Those RXs have a good rep, though still no telemetry.
• Go with another brand. There are plenty of options you could choose that would give you full telemetry features and 12 new RXs for a the same or less than the outlay for the 16IZ alone, and that is before you sell your Futaba TX and receivers. Yes you have to learn a new Tx logic, but unless you want to be locked into Futabas crazy pricing for receivers and telemetry add-ons then you don't really have another choice.

Probably the best option for you (assuming you want to stay with Futaba) would have been to buy a cheap MPM based TX to run your old receivers for the next few years, buy the 16IZ, and invest only in S-FHSS and FASSTest RXs moving forward. The unfortunate barrier to that is that FASST is one of only two mainstream protocols that are not available from MPM based transmitters (Mpx M-Link being the other).

Edited By MattyB on 04/02/2021 14:20:22

[MattyB]

Posted by Martin Harris - Moderator on 04/02/2021 12:51:27:

Makes you wonder how Futaba got into this mess in the first place. I went to 2.4 GHz in 2009 after finding a system that provided telemetry which persuaded me to move on from my Futaba 35 MHz receivers (I used a plug in module in my FF10).

My original receivers and telemetry sensors are still in current use (Covid permitting) and work as well as the day I bought them with both my old transmitter module (kept for wireless buddy boxing) and a dedicated transmitter bought after a few years. Newer receivers offer more options but despite EU compliant transmitting standards changes and numerous enhancements, the manufacturer has offered backwardly compatible support for all its older equipment right back to the system's launch in 2009.

You are right that Jeti are probably the only manufacturer not to have made false steps in their 2.4Ghz journey down the years. However there is a certain amount of luck in that - there is no way they could know their protocol would be compliant with the 2015 changes when they implemented it. I had doubts they would survive the Chinese onslaught to be honest, but they seem to have diversified their product line pretty effectively and snaffled enough of the high margin top end market to be sitting relatively pretty at this point. They have certainly hurt the likes of Futaba and JR in the last 10 years!

Multiplex also traversed the 2015 ETSI change pretty well, but they were so late to the 2.4 party that they wee able to design wit the 2015 regulations in mind. Unfortunately for them their TX launches since have been a commercial flop, so the future of M-Link does look a little hazy. I understand they are now partnering with Powerbox to add M-Link compatibility into the ultra high end Core TX, so maybe that is their future. It's certainly difficult to see a great future for their existing Tx line up with so much competition around from Open source and MPM based TXs.

[i12fly]

Up to now I've always stayed with Futaba, 5 Tx over the years, but my next will not be Futaba. Simple. So, what next without built in obsolescence.

[MattyB]

Posted by i12fly on 04/02/2021 14:41:51:

Up to now I've always stayed with Futaba, 5 Tx over the years, but my next will not be Futaba. Simple. So, what next without built in obsolescence.

I'm not sure that you can choose a manufacturer that guarantees that - they are all vulnerable to a change in regs or commercial strategies that mean they ditch a protocol and orphan receivers. Of the big brands probably Jeti would be the least likely to leave youup a cul de sac, but they are premium priced too.

The only cast iron option re: obsolescence are the MPM based TXs that do 95% of existing protocols; as it's an open source project there should always be a selection of them available into the future. I have just bought a Radiomaster T16SE and though it is plasticky it looks very well built inside and feels good in the hands. I can understand that anyone coming from a premium brand might be wary, but given my previous two TXs were a Mpx Evo and a Taranis X9D (neither of which had top end physical quality) I am very comfortable flying with this TX. The other advantage is if you don't like it you've not wasted much money (they are cheap to start with, very powerful and you can use them with most existing receivers other than FASST and M-Link). YMMV.

Edited By MattyB on 04/02/2021 15:47:02

[i12fly]

Thanks for the sound advice Matty, I guess with MPM I could have a mix of Rx to suit either cheapy rough models or more expensive to improve sophistication and include telemetry. I'll keep an eye on Radiomaster, whatever it will be bought through a UK site in case of needing support.