Rocker Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Anyone know what the BMFA subs are for 2022. The BMFA AGM was last Saturday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2760/BMFA-Membership-Fees-2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 I can live with that, was expected after reading the proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBaron Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Whilst the amount is not large, I would just comment that with everyone just adding in a little for inflation is what makes inflation happen. It is quite possible that many of us are not getting any inflation in our income so I would like to see suppliers tightening their belts to match that of the customers. Rather than trying to get us into the frame of mind that inflation is normal and we should just work harder to pay for it. This is not intended as a specific criticism of the BMFA just a general philosophical observation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) Yes, I tend to go along with RedBaron - fingers are usually pointed at wage rises rather than prices, but I suppose if you ask half a dozen economists you'll get a broad spread of reasons and depending on politics, another set of reasons and blames as well. My view is to control personal spending where possible. so its central heating turned down by a couple of degrees, fewer car trips, hunt for better deals on domestic insurance, keep out of the big Supermarkets who encourage the 'big shop' as the norm. (BTW - £20/month saved on my Virgin Media bill when I phoned them and whinged!). BMFA subs increase is miniscule when one compares the cost of the hobby overall - even the increased cost of petrol getting to the field is way above the few coppers a week on BMFA subs. I did view the AGM as an on-line observer and what I did find a little concerning was the part about the National Centre being unsustainable without sponsorship. Possibly a pitfall waiting for us to fall into in later years - I really hope not and I say that as someone who is unlikely to use the faciltiy other than to pay a visit If I'm in that part of the country....which won't be that often. Edited November 23, 2021 by Cuban8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Thankfully the increase appears to be lower than I anticipated from the last minutes that I have seen, which gave me the impression that the increase would be £5, made up of of two components, a general increase and insurance. Neither of which would have troubled me to much. However, like others, it would seem, I am aware of other pensioners where this increase could be yet another issue, in their cost of living expenditure. Particularly where it has been suggested that energy bills (combined, are expected to increase by £400 to something much larger as the outlier) . With that in mind what is £5? Where £2 is an unexpected bonus. Personally i am more concerned with membership numbers, which the binomial distribution indicates that more members will be lost due to age (an excess of it, and I am in that group). The quads will be needed. As for the NFC, that has been a predictable issue, particularly from the previous years accounts. Yet we now have it, and initial losses are/were predicable, which previously have been avoided. The question is what is to be done, without subsidies or expenditure omissions. I guess and hope there is a long term plan, which leads to the green uplands of milk and honey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Hotel Foxtrot Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 15 hours ago, RedBaron said: Whilst the amount is not large, I would just comment that with everyone just adding in a little for inflation is what makes inflation happen. It is quite possible that many of us are not getting any inflation in our income so I would like to see suppliers tightening their belts to match that of the customers. Rather than trying to get us into the frame of mind that inflation is normal and we should just work harder to pay for it. This is not intended as a specific criticism of the BMFA just a general philosophical observation. Oh. My. God. Are you actually serious? Presumably in your world its fine for a model shop or other supplier to simply make less profit and survive as long as you don't have to pay a few extra pennies? I suppose that can be achieved by lowering their prices and then perhaps firing a member of staff or cutting wages, after all it's only someone's livelihood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 irrespective of your politics, high inflation is very painful for many. Companies have to make a profit, workers have to pay bill. Companies go bust, workers loose jobs. Some interventions meant to protect lower income sections of the community, end up with many companies going into liquidation (energy companies at present). What was meant to get the broader bill payers to pay part of the bill, has ended up in one instance in all tax payers involved. So £5 for most of us is not a lot (at present). I think Red Barons comments were highlighting the consequences of inflation which are in detail impossible to predict beyond it hurts the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Calcutt Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Falling membership will become a serious issue for BMFA and clubs,The national Centre may not be viable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBaron Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) Thanks Erfolg you interpreted my comment spot on. The last time we had a long period of inflation it went on for years even with long pay freezes and winters of discontent throughout, I was paying off my mortgage that averaged over it's life time 13.5% interest per year, compare that with the present mortgage rate. Luckily I was not living beyond my means so we just managed to scrape through. In the last week I have been very heartened to buy some of my regular products (not modelling ones) at lower prices than for sometime. Those suppliers must have figured out an improved business model. So as far as I am concerned they deserve my business for the long haul. For us modellers inflation means that the value of the pound may well drop a lot and foreign sourced products will be very expensive. But every cloud has a silver lining - it is a marvelous opportunity for UK based manufacturers and suppliers. As Andrew observes falling memberships etc - I also understood from other comments above that the BMFA has already realized that it is living beyond it's means so they do need a new think on things, not just raising prices. Edited November 23, 2021 by RedBaron spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 subs are subs,we get nothing for nothing in the times we are living in.As regards the falling numbers of BMFA members and the National centre..the only way i can imagine to make the site pay its way is to let it out for a multitude of different events...a couple of large gatherings a year of paying visitors will be the way to go...depending on model flying stuff wont pay the bills. ken anderson...ne..1..economics dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 I see that the BMFA is increasing subscription charges next year. One of the reasons being insurance costs. It is interesting that these have gone up, considering that for the last 2 years we have not been able to fly anywhere near as often, so theoretically claims should be down. I have an involvement in the car repair industry and the experience is somewhat similar. Over the same period motor claims have been down at least 25% but premiums are increasing. Also the throughput of work through our business is down approximately 40% on what it was pre-Covid. Another example of the financial industries taking advantage of a bad situation ? (over the last 50 years, this is not the first time I have seen this happen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 I understand that the Insurance provider that has been previously used, has decided that they no longer wanted to continue the service. As I understand the situation the BMFA had to find another insurance provider. I probably do not know anything like the full story and could be wrong. I do take your general point with respect to many charges for services, due to covid. With respect to NFC, it is almost certain that the BMFA will continue to find a way to fund the facility. Immediately it will be required for the bid for the "Scale Model World Championship" and for the event if awarded. The great danger could be encouraging a BMFA service providers to support the NFC via something like sponsorship, rather the sum going into the BMFA directly. In addition any BMFA employees time spent in support of the NFC need to be charged appropriately, and seen in the accounts. Any support needs to be transparent, in the Annual Accounts. What could disastrous in the longer run, is disguising the true situation what ever it will be. Non the less, I hope that the facility can successfully support itself . Is there any evidence that Quad flyers/clubs are being integrated into the Areas, particularly as clubs or individuals, by participating in the meetings? Or are they a parallel grouping? I expect that they will change the emphasis of the BMFA if there numbers become significant, as when RC did with FF in the 70s. That is life in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Bertram Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Wow, that is almost 3.85 pence a week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Bob Bertram said: Wow, that is almost 3.85 pence a week! I didn't think it was bad either, but would have preferred it to all have gone to the BMFA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 (edited) Interesting point about insurance premiums increasing albeit a small increase even with the lowered risks involved due to the lockdown last year and earlier this year . It seems to me that insurance companies jus make it up so as to provide a better return for their sharholders "Names" who can make or loose a fortune by insuring high risks. although our hobby can hardly be caled a high risk if past incidents compared to the annual number of flights are anything to go by. Similarly my car insures increaserd my premium this year even though my car sat on the drive for most of the early part of the year only venturing out for essential journes . Annual milage down from just under 6k to just over 800 ! . Needless to say they got the boot and I moved on to another insurer. Its a pity that the BMFA cant shop around for better premiums or can they ? Edited November 27, 2021 by Engine Doctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 They do, but as our hobby is a niche market the insurance companies just rub their hands together. You may have noticed over the last few years (excluding Covid) that the number of steam engine events has drastically reduced. This is not down to the reduction of steam enthusiasts, but the cost of insurance for the exhibitors, as well as the organizers. Particularly those who use high pressure steam. Maybe the BMFA might be better trying BetFred. After all, it is all down to gambling at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Engine Doctor said: Its a pity that the BMFA cant shop around for better premiums or can they ? Can and do, in fact there is a change of insurer for 2022. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Hi Andy. I never knew that and it's good to hear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Imformation was there for us all to read, maybe in the proposals to the AGM ? Sure I read it. ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Subs seem pretty good value to me. More power to the bmfa. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 I see that there are the usual complaints about a £2 increase - the first for a couple of years. And how much more are you paying for your aeromodelling stuff what with global shortages and having to pay handling charges for stuff bought from the EU? The National Centre made a £5k profit last year and a small one this year. However, that hasn't stopped people posting that the Centre is making a loss and will need external usage to break even. The perennial "we're doomed" as regards falling membership also continues. Yes, membership has dropped from 36,000 a few years ago to just over 30,000 this year. We are still the largest air sports element in the Royal Aero Club by a long way and no body goes around saying that their air sport is doomed. Folks, things go up and down, a bit like inflation really, so just enjoy your hobby or sport and do your best to bring in new recruits to keep the numbers as stable as possible. Just accept that there isn't going to be the sort of following there was in the mid 50s and 60s as there are so many more restrictions on what under 18s can get up to in this day and age. Oh and talking of inflation, it is generally a good thing if it's in the 2-3% range albeit we're going through a spike at the moment given the peculiarities of the pandemic's effect on world trade. We are blessed with amazing radio control equipment that is better and more reliable than its ever been and more affordable as well. True IC seems to be in decline but future advances in battery technology will come along, thanks to the work being done in the motor industry, that will give us even better electric power options. Finally, without Dave Phipps outstanding efforts over the gestation period of the drone laws we would all be hugely restricted in how we can fly. So, a big thank you to Dave and the BMFA for allowing our sport to proceed with only a few minor inconveniences. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said: The National Centre made a £5k profit last year and a small one this year. However, that hasn't stopped people posting that the Centre is making a loss and will need external usage to break even. Perhaps I misheard or misunderstood, but at the BMFA AGM a question from the floor asked whether the Nat Centre was currently viable without outside support or sponsorship. The answer was that it wasn't. See the exchange at 55min 20sec on YouTube. I do support the notion of the National Centre BTW. Edited November 28, 2021 by Cuban8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 The business case for the NC always included an element of sponsorship. That's what made it a viable concern. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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