Servos for classic pattern planes

[JEdmunds]

Hi Folks,

 

 Currently building my first pattern plane (Wolfgang Matt Arrow) and am wondering what servos you folks would recommend. Is it worth splurging out on the latest and greatest brushless monster or would something like a Futaba 3003 suffice ? I have seen that Futaba produces low profile servos specifically for pattern planes, are they worth the additional cost ?

 

 Cheers

 

 John

[kc]

No, the original would have been built with standard servos like Futaba 128 or 148 so 3003 would be the equivalent.

Possibly worth putting 2 servos on the ailerons though.  If the wings are foam and the wires cannot be inserted out to the servos then 2 servos in the centre should work with torque rods if you leave enough space.

Edited May 14, 2023 by kc

[Martin Dance 1]

I suspect that Matt used what today would be classed as a standard servo,  therwfore agreeing with kc. what is probably more important is to have minimal slop in the linkages from servo to surface control horn. Even a little skop will negate the benefits of digital high power servos.

[Stuart Z]

I had a Joker which is probably slightly younger but I used 128 servos I think, certainly nothing complex.  Wing servos were I believe also standard, taking care to not cut right through the wing.  (Used a calliper to assess how much I could cut in) Cutting through the foam was a slow process involving a wood drill bit glued and taped on a dowel.  Frequently clearing the hole.  Finished with wing servos with servo leads through the foam. ( Nowadays some firms bore the foam for you, not so in those days.)

S

[MattyB]

You won’t need the latest and greatest, but given how servo performance has improved you can probably go down at least one size to reduce rolling inertia and auw slightly without having to spend out too much. Even if you stick with an analogue you will still have more torque and speed than the original standard servos of the day.

[Brian Cooper]

Buy cheap, buy twice.

 

Just because you can use standard servos doesn't necessarily mean you should. 

 

Bog standard "sloppy" servos are fine on lightweight, basic trainers, but aeroplanes with higher performance and greater capabilities will be far more rewarding to fly with better servos. 

[J D 8 - Moderator]

         The standard of some so called standard servos today is not good a situation made worse by the fakes of well known makes.

  As standard's are fine for what I fly have been hording original Futaba 3003 and 3001's and

some Multiplex standard size along with Hitec micros.

[Peter Jenkins]

17 hours ago, JEdmunds said:

Hi Folks,

 

 Currently building my first pattern plane (Wolfgang Matt Arrow) and am wondering what servos you folks would recommend. Is it worth splurging out on the latest and greatest brushless monster or would something like a Futaba 3003 suffice ? I have seen that Futaba produces low profile servos specifically for pattern planes, are they worth the additional cost ?

 

 Cheers

 

 John

The biggest issue with servos in aerobatic aircraft is their ability to centre accurately.  I found the small Hitec servos much better in this respect than there more expensive servos I used on a 2 mtr aerobatic aircraft.  In those days, 2011/12 I was told to use only Futaba or JR servos but these days there are others that are as good and cheaper e.g. Align, MKS to name but 2 others.  You may not notice a wandering centre on a standard sport model but you will with an aerobatic model that is designed to fly very accurately.  A poorly centring servo ruins that performance.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

I also would go with std 'real' Futaba 3003, 3001 or the new Su-300's well that's what I put in my newly built Kwik Fly,,,,

[Stuart Z]

1 minute ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

I also would go with std 'real' Futaba 3003, 3001 or the new Su-300's well that's what I put in my newly built Kwik Fly,,,,

I bought some 3003 servos seller that were not genuine.  Make sure you don’t make the same mistake. They wouldn’t centre at all well.  Go to a Futaba dealer if you are buying Futaba (or for that matter any other make) and I would recommend Steve Webb.  His web site is a brilliant place to hunt out what you want

 

S

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Standards will without doubt do, however we are not limited on choice these days, there are servos out there now that are lighter, quicker, stronger and smaller, give em a try you may be in for a nice surprise, contrary to somes belief you will notice a difference.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 hour ago, Stuart Z said:

I bought some 3003 servos seller that were not genuine.  Make sure you don’t make the same mistake. They wouldn’t centre at all well.  Go to a Futaba dealer if you are buying Futaba (or for that matter any other make) and I would recommend Steve Webb.  His web site is a brilliant place to hunt out what you want

 

S

I owned my own Model Shop for 20 years and I know where to shop, just get the address of the shops from the Futaba distributor,,,

[JEdmunds]

Thank you for the replies. Sadly there are no 3003s left in the shops, only 2nd hand. For £8 they were great and a lot cheaper than their replacement 😃. I will have a butchers about and see what is in the offering in the "reasonable price" range of digi servos. 

 

Has anybody ever fitted the spoilers to the Arrow ? I see them on the plan, but cant really think of a reason for them except some weird manoeuvres.

 

 Cheers

 

 John

[Don Fry]

3003 servos are 40 year old technology. Not great, but Ok then.

Why now?

name an airframe (power driven), that flies better, with weight added, 
loose half the servo weight, no loss off performance. No brainier. 

 

I still have a bag of Futaba servos of this era. Ok for a certain size of hack, scale models to suit. Reliable mind.

 

But not for precision flyers.

[Stuart Z]

3001s were better and available until recent times.  Steve Webb lists the updated digital versions.  Depends what you want to spend.  Ball is in your court on that. I’m using 3001s in a new Joker and Hitec 77BBs in the wings, the combo will fly better than I can pilot it.

 

 

S

[Peter Jenkins]

2 hours ago, JEdmunds said:

Thank you for the replies. Sadly there are no 3003s left in the shops, only 2nd hand. For £8 they were great and a lot cheaper than their replacement 😃. I will have a butchers about and see what is in the offering in the "reasonable price" range of digi servos. 

 

Has anybody ever fitted the spoilers to the Arrow ? I see them on the plan, but cant really think of a reason for them except some weird manoeuvres.

 

 Cheers

 

 John

Not familiar with the Arrow or any of the classic designs.  I've only been flying competition aerobatics since 2011 and all electric 2 mtrs as well.  So, my guess on spoilers is to use them in downlines to keep speed in check.  Modern F3A machines carry a lot of drag either through using spoilers or large props (22 to 23 in diameter) some with contra-rotating systems and ESCs that govern prop speed to achieve just that.

[Stuart Z]

Spoilers might be helpful for landing approaches.  Not a conventional use, usually flaps for this.  Not used them but I found pattern models to be very slippery fish. 
 

S

[Nigel R]

Arrow had spoilers and flaps. They were, in combination, air brakes for landing. 

 

Speed control was not a thing when arrow was designed. Can't recall if take off and landing were a maneuver you did points on. 

 

Servos? Accuracy over power. Centring is important. Quality brand but don't need to be mega spec.

Servos of the day were slow heavy bricks.

 

 

[MattyB]

20 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

The biggest issue with servos in aerobatic aircraft is their ability to centre accurately.  I found the small Hitec servos much better in this respect than there more expensive servos I used on a 2 mtr aerobatic aircraft.  In those days, 2011/12 I was told to use only Futaba or JR servos but these days there are others that are as good and cheaper e.g. Align, MKS to name but 2 others.  You may not notice a wandering centre on a standard sport model but you will with an aerobatic model that is designed to fly very accurately.  A poorly centring servo ruins that performance.

Interesting. I used to almost exclusively use Hitec in the 90s and noughties, but the low priced Chinese brands that came on the market in the last 15 years or so seem to have forced Hitec to cheapen their lower priced offerings. I’ve had a number of their micro and sub-micros that have exhibited poor centring and short life as a result.
 

I’m sure of you are purchasing their higher priced servos they are still very good, but I wouldn’t by their cheaper smaller ones at this point, and given a a standard sized 325HB (with the bearings in the output shaft) is now £22 I think there are going to be better options available for the OP.

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by MattyB

[MattyB]

13 hours ago, JEdmunds said:

Thank you for the replies. Sadly there are no 3003s left in the shops, only 2nd hand. For £8 they were great and a lot cheaper than their replacement 😃. I will have a butchers about and see what is in the offering in the "reasonable price" range of digi servos. 

My suggestion would be Savox - they are well established these days with at least 10 (and I suspect 15) years in the market, and I’ve had zero issues with mine, and can’t remember any others complaining either. They certainly offer more bang for buck than Futaba and Hitec at a given price point, and all mine have continued to centre well in the long term.
 

Maybe worth a look, but they have loads of models so prepare to be confuzzled!

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by MattyB

[Phil Green]

A few times I've used 1/4" dolls-house tape to connect outboard aileron servos on foam wings, its particularly effective when converting a finished wing that wasnt intended to have outboards 🙂

 

[JEdmunds]

Thanks for the responses chaps. Have a fair idea of where to go with this and will ignore the spoilers. My flying abilities are not up to making the best out of this bird, but intend to grow into it 😁. Next stop is retracts and getting the engine up and running on a test stand with the pipe.

 

 I will post a few pictures when I get 5 minutes, currently minus the tunnel as I have not made one yet. 

 

 Cheers

 

 John