My Next Assembly ..... The Arising Star.

[toto]

Thanks Guys,

 

I'm just getting set up in the shed as we speak so thanks for the speedy responses.

 

I'll be back.

 

toto

[toto]

OK I'm back ......... let the lesson begin.

 

if you ever wanted to see how the Seagull Arising Star is built .... erm ..... assembled ..... by an expert ...... then turn away now.

 

This will be my version.

 

here is todays victim .....

 

 

complete with destructions .....

 

 

and the implements of torture for this lesson are as follows .......

 

 

namely .....

 

1.       some hot rocket glue ( CA ) which I have witnessed being of a sufficient type for similar purposes to todays ( gluing of hinges )

2.      some thin CA applicators to try and be a bit more accurate with the dispersal of the above

3.      A scalpel for clearing out the preformed hinge slots of residual leftovers from the manufacturing process

4.      A Dubro hinge slotter ....... although not likely required ........ handy to have.

 

So includes the armoury that I can foresee for the task ahead.

 

Now that I have the above looked out and ready to cripple the victim with ....... I'll go and drag the various components ...... kicking and screaming ..... to the work area.

 

get the popcorn out and I'll see you soon.

 

toto.  

 

[Cuban8]

A few tips on fuel tanks. Just my takes on things that work for me, of course.

Most come with the clunk weight attached to the tank's outlet pipe via a long length of softer fuel tubing. The clunk follows the fuel around the rear of the tank, even to when almost empty......no problem. However, one day, the model will have a rough  landing and an abrupt stop which will cause the clunk weight to double back on itself and stay there. Chances are, it'll get caught so it'll only be able to pick up a fraction of the tank's full capacity - you won't notice anything's wrong until your next flight and the unexpected early dead stick, which you may or may not get way with. Have cured many a mates' engine trouble by giving the model a shake and not hearing the clunk rattling........or rattling when it shouldn't.

Having been caught out by this many, many years ago, I now always a install a suitable length of metal fuel tube between the clunk and outlet and just rely on a short length of flexible tube at the outlet end. The clunk will never be able to turn back on itself even in the roughest landings and in something like forty years of installing tank plumbing in this manner, I've never had a problem. Use another bit of silicon tube cut very short but enough to attach the clunk to the other end of the metal pipe.

BTW, always round off any sharp external edges at the end of metal fuel pipes to stop the silicon tube cutting into itself over time, and I find it useful to lightly abrade the area where the silicon slides over the metal tube with fine abrasive paper. Gives a very strong grip, but make sure not to introduce any dust or swarf. Always worth filling and flushing through a newly installed tank setup a couple of times to get rid of any crud or flash that might be hanging around from the tank's manufacturing and installation  process.

I always seal and bubble test them in the kitchen sink as well. Avoid round tanks, I've seen them make a quarter turn in a fuz due to vibration and cause all sorts of problems.

I've never been keen on the SLEC square tanks either (opaque, poor pipe connections to fill and pressure and rather crude screw in outlet nipple IMHO)  but I know many folks swear by them.

Don't fit an in-line filter in the model - more trouble than they're worth - thoroughly filter fuel as you fill up and keep the fill tubing off the  ground where it'll attract dirt like a magnet.

Edit.....just remembered - fuel tanks are not fit and forget, sometimes metal pipes do corrode and fail and silicon tube can split, as can the tank body itself. Worth keeping a check on things as part of regular maintenance.

Hope this is of help.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Cuban8

[toto]

OK .....

 

I'm back and things are moving nicely.

 

I forgot to mention ..... these little fellows ....... pins ....

 

 

now ... believe it or not, I bought T pins ... but .... put them somewhere safe so had to rumage around for these.

 

I took the elevator apart from the horizontal stabiliser ..... and inserted two pins roughly in the centra of each hinge ..... yes .... I know .... i'm getting rough already ....the shame of it all.

 

 

then .... bunged them back in the stabilser where I had marked lightly with a pencil where they had previously been ..... brain wave or wot.

 

 

bunged on the elevator surface .....

 

 

removed the pins ...... and glued them in place using CS.

 

 

simples ...... now ..... on to the ruddery thing .......

 

I'll be back

 

toto

 

 

 

[toto]

OK ..... I'm back ..... and first of all .....thanks Cuban 8 for your response that has been caught in the crossfire. I'll be reading through that and responding later tonight once I have my " current duties " out of the way. 😀

 

so .... its the rudder ..... and here it is .....

 

 

took it apart and made sure the hinges were centrally placed .....

 

 

and bunged in some pins to keep them there .....

 

 

there we have it .......

 

then I took out the pins and snugged the two surfaces closer together as the destructions shout out for 

 

 

and flooded the hinges with CA ......

 

Now ..... things were going far to well and .....my threads tend to be " warts and all " so ....... here is the clanger .......

 

 

some CA had managed to get onto my finger without me realising it and ...................... well ..... you see the result. it is only a small mark and I should be able to cover it with a well thought out sticker or some other disguise ....... gutted .... but lets not dwell on it ........ move on ...... its happened.

 

be back soon ...... the wings are trembling in the box awaiting their deportation to the bench.

 

cheers

 

toto

 

 

 

 

[toto]

Alright ....... the ailerons .....

 

 

here we are ...... out of the box ... and very fine looking it is too.

 

I whipped the aileron off as I was keen to see this control rod arrangement .....

 

 

and here is what we get .......

 

 

so ..... I have taken a risk. the rod fits in the premade hole / slat very snuggly and I took a gamble ( which i may live to regret ) that it did not need any epoxy ...... after all ..... its not going anywhere ...... is it ?

 

So I crashed on and turned my attention to the hinges ..... or as benny Hill would say ...... Inges. 😄

 

 

tried them out for depth on both surfaces and they were fine ..... no crap in the way.

 

 

pinned and centred them .......

 

 

then once this was done and I was satisfied that they were evenly installed between the two surfaces ....... glued them in place ......

 

 

Terraaaaaa.

 

i've done the wiggle etc and i'm satisfied that they are moving freely without getting stuck anywhere they shouldn't and I am .... happy the man.

 

Now I could have proceeded to complete the hinges on wing number two but my old mate ( John Smith ) has decided that we've had enough for the night so ..... guess where I will be carrying on from tomorrow night. its time to just check tonights work to see that everything is all still free moving and then close the shed up and go back indoors to see what I've missed in posts since i've been gone.

 

Goodnight all and thanks again.

 

until tomorrow

 

toto.

 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Ah torque rods are already glued in, one tip is run cyano into the hole rod fits in, hardens it up a tad.

[toto]

Hi Cuban8 ,

 

Just got around to reading your post re fuel tank fitting etc. Very good comments that I would never have thought of. Especially the metal tube for the clunk with short silicone extension. I bet that's caught a few folks out and had them puzzled. 

 

As you say, the fuel tank, like other elements of the model is not a " fit and forget " item. I think trying to adopt a rigourous periodic maintainence regime could avoid a load of potential issues.

 

Many thanks for your comments. Invaluable.

 

Toto

[toto]

John,

 

I had thought about that and probably should have. I dont think it would have done any harm. I'm too late but I'll catch it on the second wing tomorrow night. ....... only one aileron will fall off. 

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[toto]

So, tomorrow,

 

Second wing to hinge and then on to joining the two together.

 

I have read ahead in the destructions and must admit .... I have a few issues that I will need to question. I haven't brought the destructions back in from the shed with me or I would have had them up asking now .... ahead of the game and letting me get the understanding into my head.

 

Nevermind. So fair warning has been given of what's to come ...... feel free to switch off if I get a bit too much. 

 

Things are moving ..... happy.

 

Toto

[Philip Lewis 3]

To remove errant CA fingerprints drips and runs then use this stuff, it works very well.

 

To remove epoxy just apply heat, a decent hairdryer is hot enough or a heat gun on quite a low setting.

[toto]

Thank you kind Sir..... it will be on order shortly.

 

Toto

[PDB]

I got drips and epoxy finger prints all over my first trainer however they were soon forgotten about as it looked used very quickly. 🤪

 

Regarding joining the wings, as a fellow newbie a tip which will be obvious to the more experienced but helped me.

 

Prepare the work space and run through the process you're going to use in a dry run before getting the epoxy out.

 

Have kitchen paper to hand to wipe any oozing epoxy off, a bag on hand to put the rags in and test whatever method you're going to use to hold the wings together (I used 2 inch masking tape across the wing tips) and clamps at the front and rear of the join. I used a slow setting epoxy so I could take my time lining the join up and disposable gloves for me really helped.

 

Having done it a few times now I have minimal problems, the first time was a mare due to a lack of preparation.

 

Also dry fit the wings together and test the servo fit, my hitec servo was too deep and I had to Dremel out a bit of the wing internal so the servo would fully drop in. This is easier to sort before you glue the wings together.

[toto]

First class Good Sir.

 

Generally speaking I do try to be prepared. I think of the tools and materials I will be using and try and have things looked out in advance.

 

I will look at doing a dry run with the wings and also ensure that the area of work surface I intend to use does create problems in terms of size for laying things out ..... especially for a suitable drying area.

 

I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the hinges were but I put that down to having the procedure worked out in advance. It would be so easy to end up " all fingers and thumbs " with no planning.

 

Ok , I ended up with a slight blemish due to a bit carelessness with the CA but many would not even notice it and as you say ...... it will see more than that once in use..... you still want to try your best though.

 

The dry run is a definite though. There are a few " terms " that are used in the destructions that refer to parts that require to be dealt with in a certain order. I will re-aquaint myself with those and post these up to ensure that I am getting it all correct. Once I am beyond this section, things get clearer again. It's probably no more than terminology so I'm not overly concerned but as I said ......... I'd rather confirm my understanding anyway. ...... measure twice ...... cut once.

 

Thanks again.

 

Toto

[GrumpyGnome]

@totoone of the purposes of epoxying the torque rod into the aileron is so that the hole does not get enlarged over time, which would introduce slop (poor control response) - as you say, the hinges will stop the aileron falling off! So, as John says, try to get some glue into that hole.

 

For your first builds/constructions/assemblies, I'd recommend asking here, or at your club, before deviating from any instructions. In time, you'll find your own way of doing things.

 

Maybe even go as far as telling us what's next, and asking for some 'hints, tips, tricks, and traps'........ as PDB has offered.  My own tips here would be to make sure you leave the glue to full harden before moving the joined wing (at least 24h), and not to rest it directly on your work surface......

[Ron Gray]

10 hours ago, toto said:

that it did not need any epoxy ...... after all ..... its not going anywhere ...... is it ?

The torque rods should really be epoxied to the ailerons. They may be a snug fit now but over time the ailerons may develop slop due to the torque rods elongating the holes. CA in the hole would harden it but not as good as epoxy! I know it’s a pain but personally I’d cut through the hinges and start again or drill a hole in the aileron through to the torque rod and then, using a syringe, pump some epoxy into the torque rod.

 

GG beat me to it!

Edited July 6, 2023 by Ron Gray

[toto]

Hi Guys,

 

I took a gamble based on the post by PDB earlier in the thread. I thought the mechanical fit would be enough. I'll state here before I go any further that I dont infer the PDB is responsible for the decision I took as the thought was already in my head.

 

It was a decision based partially on laziness if I'm being honest. I didn't want to break open a new tube of epoxy for one little application that I thought was not 100 % necessary.

 

What I could have done was delay the aileron fit until I was ready to use the epoxy for the main wing joint. Lesson learned.

 

I will apply the epoxy to the second aileron that will hopefully be getting done tonight. Ron / Grumpy ..... I get your points about the hole possibly slackening out over time. I never considered that at all. I dont fancy the idea of cutting through the hinges to start again as I believe the results from any corrective surgery may cause greater weaknesses than leaving it how it is. Maybe if I had a little more experience, I'd be up for that.

 

As far as posting up in advance to discuss my next move goes...... that is exactly what I have done above re .... the main wing joint as I have openly stated that I think the destructions are a little vague ( for me ). I will look up the destructions prior to making a start tonight and shall be either asking questions or trying to confirm my current understanding of what I think the destructions are asking of me.

 

Ideally, I'd like to build up an action by action understanding of the wing joining process in the correct order. Where exactly the epoxy is applied and at what stage etc. I notice some kind of tape that goes down the centre line of the wing join ..... is this permanent or temporary. 

I'm assuming that the wing can be joined, glued and left to dry prior to wiring in servo leads etc and the installation of the servo.

 

I will be revisiting the destructions again but meanwhile, if anybody wants to chime in ....... feel free. 

 

Thanks for your input gents

 

Toto 

[Don Fry]

One bodge might work, clamp the work so the joint is vertical. Then wick thin superglue into the joint. Dont flood it, if it cures in a rush, makes a weak mess. Don’t use accelerators, ditto. Might need a couple of wicks to do it, hence the clamp. 
Don’t kick yourself. Learning curve. Experts look good cos they know all the bodges. 

[GrumpyGnome]

Indeed you did mention what's next toto. I meant be a bit more explicit and actually ask for tips - people who may have done things dozens of times may well do things automatically.

 

Looking at the manual, if you follow the instructions you'll get a nice solid joint.  Read them twice, with the pieces in front of you, do a dry-run to ensure you fully understand, then off you go!  PDBs suggestions re servo is spot on.  The tape you mention is cosmetic and will hide the joint.

[GrumpyGnome]

P.S. if the dihedral brace is a tight fit in either wing, do not force it in as they are the very devil to get back out!  We've all made mistakes - that's one of mine.

[Cuban8]

11 hours ago, Philip Lewis 3 said:

To remove errant CA fingerprints drips and runs then use this stuff, it works very well.

 

To remove epoxy just apply heat, a decent hairdryer is hot enough or a heat gun on quite a low setting.

Using thin cyano to drip into hinge slots works very well and I've used 'hairy hinges' for years and found them to be fine. The problem with using them with pre-decorated AFTFs is that the cyano fumes, even when the glue is carefully applied, will often leave a horrible white bloom or show up finger prints on the covering. This usually turns up overnight. I remember a top tip that was published ages ago in one of the Mags that suggested moistening a piece of kitchen towel with WD40 and lightly wiping the area surrounding the hinge with a thin coat of the WD. Once the hinges have been fitted and the cyano has completely cured (i.e. no more fumes) simply wipe over where the WD was applied and you'll never have a mark appear.

It really does work.

[Don Fry]

Arrr happy days, fume cupboard, superglue boiler to get fumes, and raising latent fingerprints off plastic surfaces. I once sheared off a section of Venetian blinds for this process. Owner moaned, as the house was fitted with matching blinds to all windows. Mind, old owner was dead. 

[Philip Lewis 3]

4 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

Using thin cyano to drip into hinge slots works very well and I've used 'hairy hinges' for years and found them to be fine. The problem with using them with pre-decorated AFTFs is that the cyano fumes, even when the glue is carefully applied, will often leave a horrible white bloom or show up finger prints on the covering. This usually turns up overnight. I remember a top tip that was published ages ago in one of the Mags that suggested moistening a piece of kitchen towel with WD40 and lightly wiping the area surrounding the hinge with a thin coat of the WD. Once the hinges have been fitted and the cyano has completely cured (i.e. no more fumes) simply wipe over where the WD was applied and you'll never have a mark appear.

It really does work.

Or you can just leave them outside leant against a wall where any kind of breeze prevents the bloom from forming.

 

Alternatively use aliphatic glue instead, much more time to get the alignment right and just as strong.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Philip Lewis 3
Spelling

[Peter Jenkins]

7 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

Using thin cyano to drip into hinge slots works very well and I've used 'hairy hinges' for years and found them to be fine. The problem with using them with pre-decorated AFTFs is that the cyano fumes, even when the glue is carefully applied, will often leave a horrible white bloom or show up finger prints on the covering. This usually turns up overnight. I remember a top tip that was published ages ago in one of the Mags that suggested moistening a piece of kitchen towel with WD40 and lightly wiping the area surrounding the hinge with a thin coat of the WD. Once the hinges have been fitted and the cyano has completely cured (i.e. no more fumes) simply wipe over where the WD was applied and you'll never have a mark appear.

It really does work.

I use super glue debonder to clean up.  Very useful also when replacing canopy locks when they have been glued with cyano and break.  One drop is sufficient to clean up the bloom that's sometimes left behind.

[toto]

Good evening,

 

back in the shed for round 2.

 

I inspected the hinging works that i did last night on the rudder and the elevator and all is good. free movement in both directions and the hinged joints are holding well.

 

the aileron / Wing however ...... Hinges have glued ok but they are a bit tight when moving. they flex ok but you need to put a bit of effort in in order to reach full throw ... both ways. 

 

Do the hinges usually go a bit tight until they have been used a bit ?

 

The Aileron / Wing that has not yet been glued has easier movement and a further throw distance. ..... Noiw I am worried >

 

any comments ..... words of comfort ...... or should I run for the hills ?

 

cheers

 

toto