PatMc Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Loose fit the wing holding dowels to the fuselage then before applying any epoxy fit the wings in position held there with a couple of bands. Check that the LE & TE line up accurately. If they do, join the wings with the epoxy & masking tape then fit them on the fus with the bands, check everything is lined up as it should be & leave for the epoxy to cure overnight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Now that ........ sounds like the way to go. Thanks good Sir Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, toto said: Hi Leccyflyer, I thought as much myself with reference to the side cheek. That's why I mentioned potential issues with the models integrity. I spoke with my instructor yesterday whilst at the club and he informed me that he has the same model .... guess what ..... it only happens to be up for sale fully kitted out ( handy mentioned that before of course ). Anyway I can ask him about his experiences with the engine etc as he is a very experienced flyer as well. I suspect as already suggested that if it were an issue , it would have been highlighted and discussed to death by now given the numbers sold. Having said that, I still want to thank Cuban8 for bringing this up as it us interesting how it seems to " fly in the face of convention ". Excuse the pun. Always worth knowing about. Cheers Toto Carry on with the build as designed. Any issues with the engine install will soon make themselves apparent but chances are you'll be fine. At least forewarned is forearmed. I suppose the next thing that'll throw up some talk will be running in your new engine and which fuel to use. Plenty of work to do before we cross that bridge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 TBH masking tape to hold the wings together whist they dry is fine. After bringing the wings together you can put some masking tape across the joint, stick to one half first then pull it and stick it down on the other half, 3 strips top and bottom will be enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Bowers Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 3 hours ago, J D 8 said: Not familiar with Force engine's but would be interesting to know the size of the intake in the throttle barrel. 7.9mm with my vernier stuffed up it's chuff, so probably 8mm. It's been bench run for about 4 tanks with the needle on the tank centreline and silencer pressure to the tank. No running issues, once the leak on the remote needle fuel banjo* was fixed and one of the silencer screws replaced because the thread wasn't formed correctly. *I note Toto's engine doesn't have that needle arrangement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Hi Graham, I can post up pictures of the engine in more detail if you want. I'm not the hottest on technical details so a few pictures may give you a better idea. Al, good stuff for when the time comes to fit it and run it. My instructor said to take it up to the v Ub when it's ready and he will assist in setting it up correctly for its first run in. We have a dedicated bench in a sort of secluded part of our club site just for that. It helps reduce any nuisance noise. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 OK .... a new shift begins ...... popcorn at the ready ...... First of all ....... this arrived today ..... So no prizes for guessing whats coming next then. Meanwhile ..... for the benefit of Graham Bowers ...... some images of how things sit on the engine being used .... and .... and .... and .... in-situ ...... and the last one for now .... I hope this explains things better than I could vocally graham. Now ....... moving on ..... I'm about to do another dry fit of the two wing halves prior to going anywhere near it with the epoxy ..... I'll be back ... toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 I'm back ..... geezo ..... that was quick. OK ...here is what we have so far ..... and and .... The last one is to show that I have masked both edges of each of the wing roots so that when I apply the epoxy and push together, any squeeze out hits the masking tape and not the covering. I will have a cloth dampened with Isopropyl Alcohol to wipe any surplus off. I will then , once happy alignment has been reached, secure with some more strips of masking tapa and store this up on my storage racks out of harms way. Thats the plan ....... and I'm going for it as of now. more to come once thats done. toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Bob Smith epoxy is a favorite of mine, not as smelly as some other makes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Hi JD8 I ordered this one and another Z-poxy ( the correct one this time ) both delivery times were crap so i figured ok surley one of them will beat their ETOD. The Bob Smith Industries version won. One thing is for sure ..... you sure notice the difference in viscosity between this and the Finishing epoxy I used on the first half of the wing. Anyway .... I digress .... here is what we now have now ..... plenty epoxy applied to both wing roots and the wing stabiliser ..... and sandwiched together ..... I know when you look at the second image, it looks like there is possibly a mis-alignment of the two halves ....... not the case. the covering is out a bit. I applied masking tape to both ends and a strip down the entire length of the middle on both surfaces. Its now resting on a box where it shall be left undistrurbed to cure until tomorrow. I was impressed with PatMc 's idea of attaching to the fuselage but decided against it as it was going to stop me from progressing the servos and push rods etc. Otherwise I would have ..... thanks for the idea anyway. ok ..... back later with more progress ..... the parts in the box are getting fewer ..... hurrah ..... toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Don’t forget Toto, golden rule, what folk don’t see, they don’t know about. You only need to wipe the upper surface. Saves moving that joint. Saves time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Hi Toto, well done so far, looks like you're getting there! If I was you I'd give the epoxy around 30 minutes for the initial set. Ensure with a finger test that it has begun to harden and then remove the masking tape. If you don't there's a chance that by tomorrow the epoxy in contact with the masking tape edges will be nigh-on impossible to remove and look unsightly, and I would stand the wing on end to minimise the stress on the joint. GDB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 The discussion about the height of the engine in the Arising Star got me thinking. When I started in model flying I bought a Ripmax Nova trainer and an Irvine 46 two-stroke engine - a very similar setup to yours. As it was the first plane I'd built/assembled I merely followed the instruction manual, ticked off items as they were completed and eventually the model was complete. It seems that the manufacturers knew what they were doing because it flew well and continues to fly well 14 years later. I looked at the engine height this afternoon, and like the Arising Star it is installed such that the needle valve clears the top of the side cheek. The centre-line of the tank is in line with the centre of the engine crankcase, i.e. well below the carburettor, but nevertheless it functions flawlessly. I hope you can get some idea of the relative heights from these photos. I also have a Seagull Jumper 25 (fitted with an ASP40, hence it looks a little too large for the engine bay!) and the relationship of tank and carburettor is the same. Again it works without any problems. So, carry on as you are, follow the instructions and you will have a an excellent trainer. GDB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Thanks Don, I'm a bit of a warts and all type of poster. if I screw up, I can't help but admit it ..... 🙄 Caveman ..... literally just took your advice there as I did wonder and have the same concern myself ..... so ..... hot of the press ..... and ..... the join did still move a little but was easy enough to get it aligned again. You can feel the tackiness in the join so hopefully by tomorrow morning, it should be rock solid. So I decided after reading Nigel R's post to have a look at the servos and their various fitments etc. Now these servos come with a multitude of fitments and you cant use them all ..... so ..... explain please. come on now ...... whats these all about ....😄 I am presuming ..... these are the grommets that go over each of the servo fixing hole to dampen the vibration coming up through the air frame .... these are simply the fixing screw for fixing down onto the servo tray ... I'm assuming that the next picture is for a different type of fixing elsewhere unless you prefer to just drill and bolt down onto the same servo tray positions .... But these ..... top hats ..... are they simply to line the drill holes if you are using the nut and bolt method and of course ....last ..... an assortment of servo turny things ..... Now as far as the screw against nut and bolt option goes ..... what and why ? cheers toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Thanks Caveman, thanks for taking the time to post up your models as these make good reference photo's and give me a bit more confidence. When I look at the images ..... the levels etc look very similar. I still appreciate the technical " theory " but the important thing to take away from this is ... 1. the manufacturers do seem to know what they are doing , even if bucking the technical trend / theory and 2. this seems to have been bourne out and proven by modelers themselves showing that in practice .... all is well. thanks you again kind Sir and I shall try and take some time to illustrate / demonstrate that installing " as is " is having on this assembly. cheers toto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 I've always used screws to fix servos. The little top hat things probably fit inside the grommets, with the wider end down. This means that when you screw the servos in place, the grommets are not compressed too much. Re the engine, the carb seems to be supplied quite loose so you can move it out of the way when attaching the silencer bolts. Once that's done, twist the cab so it's at 90 degrees to the main fore and aft plane, and nip up the little nut on the engine, under the carb on the right - don't go too wild and strip it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Bowers Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Ref engine pics, I can see clearly the needle on yours is in a different place to mine, and in my opinion yours is better. See my pic. My engine was bought new a few months ago. A minor detail, however I suggest you put the silencer on at some point, just to check there are no surprises and that the screws go in. I imagine the issue I had was an isolated incident, however I only found it at the field and was fortunate enough to have another engine in a model with me that I could borrow a screw from. Higher up in this thread, I recall somebody suggesting your carburettor needs to be turned, and it looks like it's still the case. Not urgent and it'll run OK, however the throttle linkage may be at an odd angle. Your instructor will advise - take it to the field in advance of the bench run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Thanks GrumpGnome ..... I will revisit this post once I get to the point of the engine which will not be that far from now. I wanted to do a bit of test fitting beginning with the servo rods as they are an easier start for me. Once I am happy with their landing positions, I can commit myself to permanently fitting the servos. I am glad I did because there " may " be an issue with an interference fit between the steering pull rod and the fuel tank bed. More on that later. however for now ...... the throttle servos and push rod seem to be generally in place .... maybe a little bending within the engine bay required ( is this normal ) ? The pull rod for the steering , again there or there abouts. I really need to think of installing the landing gear now. the rudder horn connection ..... sound. the elevator horn connection ...... happy with that ..... and they all come together. however ..... lets check that fuel tank bay .... back soon. toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Carbs just loose to package better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Graham ..... thanks a million for you input there. I will look into the carburator turning element as I get a little closer to the engine install and will be posting as I go ( as usual ) I'm sure with all the available advice here it will go like a dream ..... 😄 I checked the fuel tank bay as I had this ..... now on revisiting it and dropping the tank in ...... I shouldn't have worried .... but ..... better to check and understand the relationship between the different parts of the install. I think I will call it a night in the shed and go and have a coffee. I'll be about if anyone posts up as I am devouring all the information and advice that I can ahead of my next set of tasks. Tomorrow .... a big day ..... my wing joints should be dry and bang on. that will release the installation of the servo bay and servo into the mix. I'm off to try and decide my next steps forward for tomorrow night. A huge thanks for everyone who has babysat me throughout this thread. It is truly appreciated and gives me the confidence that I am not about to commit and massive unreversable mistakes. cheers for now toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Back in the hoose, Thinking about tomorrow's list of tasks. I'm going to work from the rear of the fuselage forward. 1. Fit the rudder and elevator control horns. 2. Take the servos out and fit the grommets. Make any adjustments that maybe needed in the servo tray to take the additional space required for the grommets. 3. Temporarily connect control rods 4. Dont forget to use my servo centering gizmo. 5. Check the wings ( done that on the way out if the shed ... all us good ) 6. Fit the servo mount etc to the aileron servo mount. 7. Fit the aileron control horns and linkages 8. Start looking at the battery location, isolation switch and receiver. That should keep me busy. I think its logical as it's all the electrics which I can then test for throw distances etc. The next step will be testing the seal on the fuel tank and start the install along with the installation of the engine .... Does that lot make sense ????? Cheers for now. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Hi Toto, Ref item 2 above, I don’t know what you mean about making additional space to fit the grommets to the servo. If the servos fit now then no extra work is needed. First thing tomorrow morning I’ll take a photo of a Savox servo to illustrate the fitting, which should clarify what’s needed. I too have some surplus fixings (nuts and bolts, for want of a more accurate term) which come with the servos, but for fixing to wood you only need the rubber grommets, metal buckets and screws. GDB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) Hi Caveman, The servos are fitted as such at this present time but I thought that when you insert the grommets. It might need further enlarging of the hole in the servo tray. I think you have helped to clear that up as I now understand that the grommets look like they sit on top of the tray. If you get the time though ..... photos are always good. The assembly is really starting to come together now and I'm chuffed at the way its heading , even if a tad slow. I'm sure other members would probably have had it wiped out and flying by now so maybe the thread us a little less interesting watch me do each stage of the build to death but for other newbies I'm hopefully providing some further clarity ...... and enjoying every minute along the way. Cheers kind Sir Toto Edited July 10, 2023 by toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Good progress Toto. The servo grommets fit into the holes in theb moulded servo case and you then insert the wee top hats from underneath, the flange sits under the grommet - you'll note that the servo fixing screws have a matching flange and the two flanges help prevent the grommet from being over compressed. I'm enjoying the thread - your pictures are very clear and will be very helpful to other beginners when they come to read the thread in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 A great little invention. Stay tuned to see them go in ........ oh boy ...... I'm sure there must be something more deserving of your time Until tomorrow ... or is that later today now. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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