A new worry for me- are Lipos safe?

[GrumpyGnome]

6 hours ago, paul devereux said:

Club flying is all about rules and safety. It would bore me and annoy them.

 

Club flying is all about having fun, with the added bonus of the company of others who share a common interest. And help and advice is easily available, face to face, without misinterpretation of the written word.

 

Generally, rules are to safeguard fliers and others, and to ensure continued use of the site.  No different to your 'park flying' really.

[Nigel R]

7 hours ago, paul devereux said:

Club flying is all about rules and safety

Surely that's very difficult to conclude if you are not part of a club?

 

Also, I've never been in a club like you describe. 

[Graham Bowers]

19 minutes ago, Nigel R said:

Surely that's very difficult to conclude if you are not part of a club?

 

Also, I've never been in a club like you describe. 

How conclusions are reached often has very little to do with facts and data. Not knocking the OP, that's just how it is.

[David perry 1]

8 hours ago, paul devereux said:

 Club flying is all about rules and safety. 

Frankly, just not true.  

However, if your attitude to safety is as blase as you suggest, perhaps take up boules.  Model aviation is not inherently dangerous but it does deserve respect, as do your fellow fliers.

 

Theres clubs and theres clubs.  If youve never given club flying a chance you are missing out.

[J D 8 - Moderator]

Yesterday this thread was about lipo safety and usage, now a discussion of the ins and outs of club membership and should go where I store my lipoos.😁

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

 

Club flying is all about having fun, with the added bonus of the company of others who share a common interest. And help and advice is easily available, face to face, without misinterpretation of the written word.

 

Generally, rules are to safeguard fliers and others, and to ensure continued use of the site.  No different to your 'park flying' really.

Yep - being part of a club and enjoying flying in the company of others is a vital part of the hobby for me. I could fly at home, but very rarely do so. If I turn up at the club field and there is nobody there I might have a couple of flights, but I'll pretty quickly head back home. Through the years, at a number of different clubs I've made very good modelling pals, with whom to share the joys of the hobby. In fact most of the time at the field is spent blethering, rather than flying and I enjoy every minute of it. I make a three and a half hour round trip to my old club site and I might have 4-6 flights in total, but I wouldn't change that- meeting up with my pals is worth every minute of that trip. Likewise, the eight minute drive to my local club is a boon and my newer pals there have made me so welcome that I enjoy every minute. I don't tend to go if there's going to be no one there, as that takes away much of the enjoyment.

 

Clubs do vary in the degree of regulation that is required and implemented. In some cases a substantial number of rules are required to operate safely on a particular site, but the folks who make those clubs work try their best to not let it interfere with the prime aim of having fun.

 

Other clubs can have a much lighter touch and generally fewer rules, if their site permits. Having seen how the hobby has evolved and incorporated the various safety concerns over the years I think we're in a pretty good place and the number of accidents is down. I've visited clubs which had almost no rules -or no rules which were actually implemented -on sites that really needed to have them and it wasn't a pleasant experience.

 

Moving from club sites which did require quite a lot of rules - specifically no-fly zones, noise limits, logging in, a formal risk assessment and regular mandatory safety meetings due to being in an industrial facility- to what are much more informally run, lighter touch clubs up here in Scotland, I've enjoyed very much that increased informality. I know though, from visiting other clubs in England, that such "light touch" clubs are also available down there. It's well worthwhile visiting a number of clubs and seeing which type you prefer, which type suits the models that you want to fly and how you want to fly them. None of my current clubs have provision for flying turbines or large models, but that is fine, because I'm not wanting to fly those. A few of my clubmates are in other local clubs where that is possible, as that is within the types of models that they like to fly.

[leccyflyer]

1 minute ago, J D 8 said:

Yesterday this thread was about lipo safety and usage, now a discussion of the ins and outs of club membership and should go where I store my lipoos.😁

Are you implying that the thread has gone down the toilet? 😉

[paul devereux]

14 hours ago, Graham Bowers said:

How conclusions are reached often has very little to do with facts and data. Not knocking the OP, that's just how it is.

Well, yes, facts often get in the way of opinions. It's true that when I rode regularly it was more fun going out with other people. I remember once cantering close to a gallop with a mixed group of us (a New Forest Pony, an ex-hunter, and three cobs) on the Downs near the coast, SS Waverly was steaming along towards Weymouth, it was a lovely evening, absolute magic! 

People have said some kind and encouraging things since I mentioned a club in this thread but I have a couple of reservations:

One is that it may be a sense of failure- I set out to learn to fly, I can now do it without crashing, in fact I can whizz about without worrying about crashing and I study YouTube tutorials to learn how to do stall turns,etc. Joining a club would feel a little bit like I failed to make it on my own.

But the major thing is, like @toto as a beginner in a club I'd be dependent on someone available to tutor me- I'd never pass Part A, I have no interest in learning how to programme an ESC, for example. So I'd drive 75 mins to a club hoping someone could tutor me, and they may not turn up or be too busy. While I can just use my own field in complete safety away from everyone. Not to say I neglect safety- I make sure the throttle stops on loss of signal and that I do the range check. And I am insured with the BMFA and done the CAA test. But flying in 2 acres, in the middle of 10 acres, is pretty safe.

 

[paul devereux]

14 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

Are you implying that the thread has gone down the toilet? 😉

Like most of us, we are all getting older, things aren't getting better for us personally are they?

[toto]

Paul,

 

From what you say, If you can fly circuits, do loops, rolls and stalls etc .... you would not be tethered to anyone.... I'm sure you would attain instant solo flying status. 

 

Get joining

 

Toto

 

 

[GrumpyGnome]

@paul devereuxNot all clubs require an A test to fly solo - some just ask you to demonstrate that you are competent and safe.  If they do require an A for solo flying, it shouldn't be a problem as, again, it's just proving basic competency.  You can download the schedule from the BMFA web site - you may only need to arrange to actually meet an existing club member once, for a check out/test.

 

And nobody would force you to programme an ESC..... but if you did want to, and had exhausted all the advice (good and bad) online, someone could physically help you.

 

https://achievements.bmfa.uk/

 

Anyway, nobody will force you to join a club - just don't knock it until you've tried it.

[Learner]

8 hours ago, paul devereux said:

Well, yes, facts often get in the way of opinions. It's true that when I rode regularly it was more fun going out with other people. I remember once cantering close to a gallop with a mixed group of us (a New Forest Pony, an ex-hunter, and three cobs) on the Downs near the coast, SS Waverly was steaming along towards Weymouth, it was a lovely evening, absolute magic! 

People have said some kind and encouraging things since I mentioned a club in this thread but I have a couple of reservations:

One is that it may be a sense of failure- I set out to learn to fly, I can now do it without crashing, in fact I can whizz about without worrying about crashing and I study YouTube tutorials to learn how to do stall turns,etc. Joining a club would feel a little bit like I failed to make it on my own.

But the major thing is, like @toto as a beginner in a club I'd be dependent on someone available to tutor me- I'd never pass Part A, I have no interest in learning how to programme an ESC, for example. So I'd drive 75 mins to a club hoping someone could tutor me, and they may not turn up or be too busy. While I can just use my own field in complete safety away from everyone. Not to say I neglect safety- I make sure the throttle stops on loss of signal and that I do the range check. And I am insured with the BMFA and done the CAA test. But flying in 2 acres, in the middle of 10 acres, is pretty safe.

 

 

[leccyflyer]

9 hours ago, paul devereux said:

Like most of us, we are all getting older, things aren't getting better for us personally are they?

Don't know about you but yes, things are definitely getting better for me personally, hobby wise. They were very good before and every day has something new to add. I'm having a great time trying new techniques and materials and really enjoying the many different aspects of the hobby. 

[Learner]

10 hours ago, paul devereux said:

 I'd never pass Part A, 

 

Why not its not that difficult, watch the video, practice the manoeuvres at your field, visit the club and try the test. Most clubs allow a few visits without even joining.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Learner

[Learner]

10 hours ago, paul devereux said:

Like most of us, we are all getting older, things aren't getting better for us personally are they?

Apart from the weather, no complaints

[Cuban8]

3 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

@paul devereuxNot all clubs require an A test to fly solo - some just ask you to demonstrate that you are competent and safe.  If they do require an A for solo flying, it shouldn't be a problem as, again, it's just proving basic competency.  You can download the schedule from the BMFA web site - you may only need to arrange to actually meet an existing club member once, for a check out/test.

 

And nobody would force you to programme an ESC..... but if you did want to, and had exhausted all the advice (good and bad) online, someone could physically help you.

 

https://achievements.bmfa.uk/

 

Anyway, nobody will force you to join a club - just don't knock it until you've tried it.

Quite correct.  |The 'A' cert solo requirement is not simply something that clubs insist on for the sake of making their members' life difficult, or just a pointless set of hoops to jump through. Bmfa has always stressed that the Achievment scheme is exactly that - one of personal improvement set against a set of goals of increasing complexity as one progresses, should one wish to, through the scheme's levels. I have often heard the various levels refered to as 'licences' ('A' Licence, 'B' Licence etc) particularly by new flyers, who have for one reason or another, mistaken the true meaning of the AS.

I guess that for convenience, an 'A' cert is a fairly good test of basic competence to operate a model within a club environment which gives one's colleagues confidence that they are not at risk of inexperienced flyers causing havoc. It tends to work well enough and the overwhelming majority of club flyers get through the 'A' to satisfy their club's rules, and then leave it at that for the rest of their modelling career, in particular,  if they have no interest in certain competitions or display flying of larger models.

If one is happy to operate alone on private land with permission etc,  then the entire achievement scheme issue becomes moot - ensure that one flies legally and that's that.

 

[paul devereux]

14 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

Don't know about you but yes, things are definitely getting better for me personally, hobby wise. They were very good before and every day has something new to add. I'm having a great time trying new techniques and materials and really enjoying the many different aspects of the hobby. 

When you mentioned toilets with regard to RC flying, I thought perhaps you had some difficulties. Portacabins aren't expensive,perhaps your club can get you one, lol!

[paul devereux]

12 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

I guess that for convenience, an 'A' cert is a fairly good test of basic competence to operate a model within a club environment which gives one's colleagues confidence that they are not at risk of inexperienced flyers causing havoc.

I agree 100%. I did approach a club once, and was told I needed a restraint- for an electric model. I don't see the sense in that,as it is only live when I connect the battery, and then it is in my hands. I'm not going to run up or tweak the engine. Also that I needed to learn to programme an ESC- I don't get that either, if it doesn't work I'll fault find, but if it works why fix it? That's why I find clubs off-putting.

[Zflyer]

Should this thread br renamed 

Are Clubs Safe as this ine has certainly swerved off course

[GrumpyGnome]

7 hours ago, paul devereux said:

I agree 100%. I did approach a club once, and was told I needed a restraint- for an electric model. I don't see the sense in that,as it is only live when I connect the battery, and then it is in my hands. I'm not going to run up or tweak the engine. Also that I needed to learn to programme an ESC- I don't get that either, if it doesn't work I'll fault find, but if it works why fix it? That's why I find clubs off-putting.

You'll get conflicting 'advice' face to face, as much as on-line.  Only difference is it's rude to ignore people face to face  🙂

 

You don't really need a restraint for an electric model but some form of making sure you don't accidentally start the motor is pretty much essential.  Most tx's have throttle lock capability.

 

Programme an ESC? Phshh....... can't remember the last time I did that.

[leccyflyer]

8 hours ago, paul devereux said:

When you mentioned toilets with regard to RC flying, I thought perhaps you had some difficulties. Portacabins aren't expensive,perhaps your club can get you one, lol!

You didn't notice that the picture which JD8 had reposted had a toilet in it?

[Ron Gray]

34 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

You don't really need a restraint for an electric model

Hmm, not too sure I’d agree with that!

[Learner]

8 hours ago, paul devereux said:

I did approach a club once, and was told I needed a restraint- for an electric model. I don't see the sense in that

They may have had a previous incident with a live plane roaring through the pits, it does happen.

Most rules are in place for a reason.

[leccyflyer]

Good point well made.

 

The use of restraints varies from club to club and, indeed, even in the same club over time, perhaps in response to incidents such as those which you describe.

 

In my old club, in the nineties, there were no restraints initially. For a time we parked our cars and pitted in a circle, right next to the flying strip - which was connected by a very short track (<10ft long) and it was common to start a model, then taxi it through the pits to the strip. Restraining the model was by a hand on the wing, or another person holding the tail. It was entirely unsatisfactory and eventually the use of model restraints was mandatory for starting. Fast forward 10 years to a flying site move and a good deal more thought going into site design, linked to a risk assessment and the facilities included an entirely separate car park, separate pits, safety fence, model start up tables separate from a designated pilots' box and rules to accompany those changes. It made for a much safer, more pleasant environment. Any initial reluctance was pretty soon gone, once the flyers had found the benefits of that more structured environment.

[Tim Kearsley]

9 hours ago, paul devereux said:

I agree 100%. I did approach a club once, and was told I needed a restraint- for an electric model. I don't see the sense in that,as it is only live when I connect the battery, and then it is in my hands. I'm not going to run up or tweak the engine. Also that I needed to learn to programme an ESC- I don't get that either, if it doesn't work I'll fault find, but if it works why fix it? That's why I find clubs off-putting.

But what about the situation where you've connected the battery but then find you need to do some other adjustment?  Or how about range testing, or do all your models have a separate Rx battery?  Once a model is live it needs restraining as throttle sticks can be knocked and things like throttle-cut switches and other safety devices are all subject to human failure.  I agree that learning how to program an ESC isn't essential. but I would have thought that anyone with anything more than a superficial interest would want to.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Tim Kearsley