toto Posted October 18, 2023 Author Share Posted October 18, 2023 I phoned SLEC this morning re the missing nose steering control arm .... very nice lady on the end of the phone who is going to send one out. I also mentioned the push rods / snakes. I offered to send photographs to demonstrate what I was explaining but photo's not required. Looks like two snakes on their way as well. Very good service with absolutely no fuss. I will look at the engine mount again and maybe just replace it. I can also start building the tail plane whilst I await the delivery of the above. That's the news and the plan for now Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) Toto, the engine mount is just fine. Leave it as is and move on to the next step. I used self tappers on my SLEC Funfly build. They were great until I needed to remove them - they were very hard to remove - perhaps I used too small a drill for the holes😀 Keep it coming…. GDB Edited October 18, 2023 by Caveman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 18, 2023 Author Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) Ok Caveman, I did butcher the web a bit but the main structural " leg " ( if you will ) was fine. I dont think you can drill the mount without encroaching on it. I don't like the idea of self tappers for this part of the build ...... and I certainly wouldn't be super gluing them in position. ..... what a nightmare if you don't get it right. ...... hex bolts and nylock nuts any day. Must admit ..... I stayed out of the shed tonight as I was getting a bit nervous and uncertain what to do .... replace the mount and use self tappers or not. I can come in out of the cold tomorrow with a bit more confidence now. Hopefully the SLEC stuff will arrive soon. I hate jumping about from one thing to another ..... it gets messy ..... and I am trying to create a relatively smooth thread for folks to follow. ...... the hokey cokey springs to mind at the moment Believe it or not , I am enjoying this and looking forward to the more challenging parts coming Into play but just want to get the fuselage and the internal gubbins complete to a point that I don't have to revisit them. Thanks again buddy. Toto Edited October 18, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 14 hours ago, Caveman said: Toto, the engine mount is just fine. Leave it as is and move on to the next step. I used self tappers on my SLEC Funfly build. They were great until I needed to remove them - they were very hard to remove - perhaps I used too small a drill for the holes😀 Keep it coming…. GDB Yes, they can be very tight to remove, but that does go to show that they do make a secure fixing. When I've had to remove a self tapper from an engine mount straight after fitting it for some reason, it's surprising how much heat has been generated by the screw driving itself into the material. I suppose once seated and the slightly softened material resets, it really does grip the threads. Agree, the mount will be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 Hi Cuban8, I drilled the mount and used hex bolts with Nylock nuts rather than the self tappers. .... just to clarify my earlier post. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 So .... got nowhere last night ........ yesterday was complete madness. Received a call yesterday at very short notice asking if I could make a teams call with a potential new Client ..... which I did ..... looks like I am back in the world of the working after approximately 8 weeks since finishing my last contract. Offshore windfarm in St Andrew's but kicking off with meetings in London on Wednesday of next week. ..... now I can breathe a bit easier ..... and so can my bank account Back in the shed tonight. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Self tappers in a glass nylon mount, for me, every time. Quick and easy and stay firmly in place. One caveat, use decent screws, not ones made from cheesium. Oh, and, correct clearance hole. But. I wouldn't change what you have, no point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 As Nigel, and a pointed piano wire of the right diameter heated up to mark the hole as said somewhere else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 toto Removing a bit of the 'web' on the engine mount, particularly at the rear bolt location where the vibration stresses are higher will reduce the stiffness of the mount a bit. It might also become the start point for a failure. The designer will have put the 'web' in for a reason. I am sure there is sufficient material remaining but its removal will have reduced the structual 'safety' margin a touch. Just an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 Ok ..... back in the shed and I am still awaiting the missing steering nose wheel arm and two replacement snakes so decided to fit the servo's in anticipation of these maybe arriving tomorrow from SLEC. and here they are .... Three out of the five Savox servo's that will be getting installed. these three for the throttle, elevator and rudder / nose wheel. here is the target area .... the fuselage servo tray ..... here is what you get with the servo's in terms of accessory parts ...... 4 rubber grommets 4 self tapping woodscrews ( philips heads which I am changing out for hex heads ) 4 allen key type headed nuts and flat head screws ( which will come in useful elsewhere 0 4 top hats for fitting inside the rubber grommets. here are the hex headed screws that I am using as a subsitute. They drive in a treat and much more confidently than philips headed versions ( Thanks to my mate Aidan for the heads up on these ). centering and testing the servo's prior to fitting ..... fitment of the rubber grommets, top hats and fixing the servo arm in place prior to installation ..... I may have these top hats upside down ( on reflection ) not sure. If so I can always retro fit the correct way. all in position. These two snakes to the left may look there is plenty length on them but they are not actually sitting representative of how they should at the far end so please ignore. So an easy job done tonight just to keep me going really. If the snakes and nose wheel control arm arrive tomorrow, I will finish off their installation .... if not ... I'll skip onto whatever the next steps are. As for the rest of tonight, I am going to clear the build board of the fuselage section as that is that for now. I am going to look out the various tail sections with a view to maybe just completing the first part of their installation tonight .... We'll see how brave I get .... 😄 cheers for now toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) OK ..... so .... clear the decks of the fuselage ..... for now ..... and get it up out of harms way ..... not forgetting to protect the engine / carb from any potential incoming crap ..... and the next step is to look out the tail plane parts which are prefixed by a "T " look at how they are marked in the destructions ....... and transfer the part numbers onto the appropriate parts ..... on some masking tape. and ..... ( note on the above there are two Wing parts that will need to be separated out denoted with the "W" prefix. In this case 2 x W19. and ..... and ..... Note T3 below is the rudder control flap which should be set aside at this stage as it not to be glued in the current stage. and T5 is the same ...... part of the elevator surface which should be set aside for later ..... do not glue in place on this stage. you will note that there are two parts " T4 " which is part of the elevator assembly ..... this is correct. OK ..... Now I need to separate these parts from their respective sprues and isolate parts T3 and T5 .... and put them back in the box for later so as I don't go gluing them as part of this next stage ..... that would be disaster. Back soon ..... toto PS ..... if you have not thought about it by now ...... maybe time to change your scalpel blade if you are using one. Edited October 19, 2023 by toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Yes, the 'top hats' go under the fixing lugs. GDB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 Hi Caveman .... I thought as much .... I seemed to remember that after the event. I'll change them around ... no big job. thank you kind sir. toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Good news about your new client. Got to pay for these planes somehow 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, toto said: Ok ..... back in the shed and I am still awaiting the missing steering nose wheel arm and two replacement snakes so decided to fit the servo's in anticipation of these maybe arriving tomorrow from SLEC. and here they are .... Three out of the five Savox servo's that will be getting installed. these three for the throttle, elevator and rudder / nose wheel. here is the target area .... the fuselage servo tray ..... here is what you get with the servo's in terms of accessory parts ...... 4 rubber grommets 4 self tapping woodscrews ( philips heads which I am changing out for hex heads ) 4 allen key type headed nuts and flat head screws ( which will come in useful elsewhere 0 4 top hats for fitting inside the rubber grommets. here are the hex headed screws that I am using as a subsitute. They drive in a treat and much more confidently than philips headed versions ( Thanks to my mate Aidan for the heads up on these ). centering and testing the servo's prior to fitting ..... fitment of the rubber grommets, top hats and fixing the servo arm in place prior to installation ..... I may have these top hats upside down ( on reflection ) not sure. If so I can always retro fit the correct way. all in position. These two snakes to the left may look there is plenty length on them but they are not actually sitting representative of how they should at the far end so please ignore. So an easy job done tonight just to keep me going really. If the snakes and nose wheel control arm arrive tomorrow, I will finish off their installation .... if not ... I'll skip onto whatever the next steps are. As for the rest of tonight, I am going to clear the build board of the fuselage section as that is that for now. I am going to look out the various tail sections with a view to maybe just completing the first part of their installation tonight .... We'll see how brave I get .... 😄 cheers for now toto Great job Toto. The servo hex head screws from model fixings are all I ever use. You will never go back to ordinary screws again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 OK ..... all parts released from their sprues ...... just as prescribed by the destructions .... in readiness for Part 24 .... I have put the elevator and rudder control surfaces " T3 and T5 " back in the box out of harms way for now ....... I suggest you do the same to avoid any potential " jumping the gun " . Now .... before making a rush to start gluing these parts together I need to sand the adjoining surfaces of these parts to ensure a nice flat " mating ". Its all part of part 24 ... I will be doing that next ( tomorrow night ) But before I go .... I want to throw this quest suggestion out there for comment. So far ..... I've been a very good boy in my choice of glues. Mostly Alaphatic wood glue except for areas where epoxy has been recommended. For this next element, I would like to use thick CA with an accelerator ....... I really don't want to wait any length of time for these parts to dry as the slightest opportunity for movement would be disasterous ..... in my mind. I intend ( once sanded ) to place a piece of packaging tape along the joins .... giving me a bendy flexible join with which to insert the CA before straightening up to make the join and dry. ( just like my Icelandic mate who doesn't know he has a mate yet ). is there any strong opinion against this ????? I won't be doing this until tomorrow night so plenty time to make me see sense if the feeling is that strong. I get that apliphatic glue with its longer curing time is probably the stronger joint ..... but is using CA on this particular element that risky ..... feel free to be brutally honest. many thanks for following and chipping in. toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 Thanks Caveman ..... I could have probably been working again before now but in sectors that I'm not wanting to be in ...... Renewables ....... the place to be and could probably see me into retirement ..... if I ever get there. Aidan .... first time I've had the chance to use these screws since buying them and can immediately see what you are talking about. No pressure required really to start these off on their way and a good solid connection between the head and the hex driver. Very pleased with them. Using the philips... its a battle to keep the driver on the head and the head ends up getting destroyed at times. I'd recommend these to anyone cheers toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Cyano will stick the backing tape onto the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 Ahhhhh ..... now ..... John ..... My Icelandic mate ( who doesn't know he has a mate yet ) states that using packaging tape ..... that doesn't happen. I could try it out on a couple of bits of scrap first to make sure ..... in fact .... thats a good idea .... especially coming from me. The main question is ....... does the joint using CA compromise the strength ..... from that of a aliphatic wood glue joint ? Hmmmm since i'm on .... and whilst the debate burns ..... here is a selection of " stuff " that I propose for Part 24 ... which shows both glues until the decision is reached ..... man ..... how exciting is this ......😄 toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 If it don't stick the tape Toto, then why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) Ok ..... a trial piece .... using this ..... and this .... pin the two pieces down .... and add packaging tape along its length ensuring that it has stuck ...... and once unpinned ..... you get this like the above ...... apply the thick Cyno along the join and weigh it down flat .... give a squirt of the accelerator ....... peel of the tape ..... and all seems well .... I didn't really spend any great time sanding the two edges ..... so they may not be perfect but it proves that the tape does not stick with the CA. I'm not trying to make a case for the CA in particular .... my concern is more that the aliphatic will take much longer to cure before the tape can be removed and the join truly hardens .... all opinions welcome .... I am maybe worrying over nothing .... toto Edited October 19, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Bradly Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Toto you're probably realising that every question you post will have a multitude of possible answers. There usually isnt a right or wrong. Its as often as not what you feel comfortable with, or what you have on hand. I wont tell you how to do it, but if i was gluing the the tailplane components together, i would do as you say, with tape and "hinge" it together while the glue dries, sitting on the bench under some weight so it aint going anywhere. I would however use masking tape, as thats what i have on hand and will pull cleanly off the balsa without pulling wood fibres apart. And i would use PVA (or a derivative of). The one glue i wouldnt use is CA, as it carries the risk of setting up while im bringing the parts together while trying to line them up in 3 dimensions; and its a pain to sand cleanly. I do the vast majority of my model building with PVA. to answer your question, almost Any glue we use in general modelling is almost always significantly stronger than the wood components, so there is no concern around strength compromise. If in.doubt, try it. Glue some scraps together in a similar manner to the proposed joint and then once properly cured, break it. You be surprised. The common combination that i find doesnt work well is ply+CA, and of course big surface area will always adhere better than small surface area. YMMV in all areas of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) Thank you Sir, I think its just a case of my lack of confidence coming through. Even in the last few minutes prior to your post coming through, I've convinced myself to go along with Aliphatic glue and just allow a longer curing time. In the back of my head ..... I know it to be the true answer. I just need to accept that it will take a little longer. decision made. toto Edited October 19, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Good to see that you came to the better solution Toto. As Dale said, CA with accelerator would not be a good choice for such a joint and is best reserved for cases where there is no good alternative - the risk of the joint setting instantly, before you have it properly lined up, is far too high. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) Hi Leccy The green mist has cleared .... and sense prevails. does no harm to debate these things though. Constantly mulling things over. There is quite a bit of " firsts " in this part. There maybe only a few parts to put together but there is also forming the various edges and prepping for hinges and coverings and the like. Test fitting into the rear of the fuselage etc for fit and fitting control Horns etc. A nice bit variation and experience. The covering is a bit away but I'll need to think about the colour scheme regardless. I have nearly a full 2m roll of white but will need to consider at least one other colour if not two ..... again ..... just thinking ahead to ensure I have what I need in stock. The joy of it all. Toto Edited October 19, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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