A swapmeet observation - residual value and pricing up to sell

[leccyflyer]

Spent a couple of enjoyable hours at the Balbedie club swap meet on Saturday morning, which had a decent turnout and in discussing the event afterwards had a couple of observations made which I thought were interesting.

 

Firstly it looks like these days you sometimes struggle to even give stuff away. There were quite a few stalls that had items marked up as free, but not much take up on taking it away. I'm not talking about complete garbage, I'm talking about useful stuff like propellers, wheels, bagged small accessories etc. A flying pal has been taking the same boxes of free things - mostly Micromold accessories from a long gone model shop - all bagged up -plus props and spinners,  the the past several swap meets. It's all for free but it doesn't seem to get any less. He did manage to eventually give away an IC powered helicopter, but it hung around for most of the morning and the chap who took it needed to be persuaded.

 

Most striking was one stall where a very nice chap had half his stall dedicated to things which were a nominal pound each to take away, including at least a dozen small four stroke engines - nothing bigger than a .35cu in IIRC. That included an almost new, very clean Enya .25, which was a superb, fairly expensive, engine in it's day - for a pound. I picked it up several times, remembering the good times I'd had with my own Enya .25SS back in the day. I believe that did go in the end, but there were still several left. It was noted that these engines, for which someone might well have saved up for weeks or months to afford, were going for the price of a cheap cuppa. I got lucky selling my glow engines when I gave up on IC years ago, they still sold for very good prices on eBay - now, unless it's a rare collectable, you struggle to get anything for them. I subsequently gave away a few engines that had come to me in used airframes as they had little residual value.

 

That same chap had a pretty well used but nice small Fokker DVII that was marked up at £25 with the engine and gear and eventually went for £15 - he also sold a nice Flair Cub, complete with engine and radio gear, for a tenner. For anyone starting out that was an excellent buy.

 

The price expectations are always a thorny issue at swap meets especially for used airframes and, whilst there were some bargains to be had, if you like that sort of thing, the bits and pieces that I was likely to be interested in were not much in evidence.

 

I don't usually put models up for sale, but I'd bitten the bullet and put a couple of airframes that I'll never get round to flying, on the table. Seeing the other prices I dropped my asking price to a very reasonable £50, which I thought fair for a clean, undamaged 55" span pattern ship and sports racer. I was happy to sell the pattern ship, but wouldn't have been able to, were it not for access to the online manual, through which I was able to show the buyer that the model was perfect for the .54 four stroke that he had just bought, according to the manufacturer. I thought the model was for a .61 2 stroke, but I was mistaken. One of the nicest thing about swap meets is that you get to have a chat with kindred spirits and I had a great discussion with another chap about the second model I had up for sale, which he was flying successfully and was able to convince me to keep it. So good result all round there - I'm going to put the motor back in the Harmon Rocket and fly it this season.

 

The observation was made that the swapmeets are a struggle these days because nobody new is coming into the hobby and those who are already in the hobby are already overloaded with their own stocks of rubbish cherished modelling items. I still like a swapmeet, even though the only thing I came away from this one with was a free Micromold tow hook and cash from the model sold. Our club swapmeet is next month, is conducted from out of our car boots rather than in a hall and is a low key thing, certainly not like the monster Northwich Swap meet which traditionally started off the season back home.

 

Has eBay, auctions and online selling affected what makes it to the swapmeet and are there sufficient buyers who need this stuff these days?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19 by leccyflyer
typo

[FlyinFlynn]

21 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

There were quite a few stalls that had items marked up as free, but not much take up on taking it away. I'm not talking about complete garbage

I can vouch for this statement. For a while I used to help a mate of mine selling R/C electronics at R/C meetings, towards the end of the day while we were packing up, we still had a couple of items that we really didn't want to take home so we put a label on it 'free - help yourself', some 'bargain hunters' came and had a look but no one decided to take the items away so eventually we threw them in the skip.

As we were driving away we saw some of the 'bargain hunters' climbing into the skip and coming out with one of our discarded items in their hand and a smile on their face.....

 

Happy days and fond memories!

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Similar observations at the bring-and-buy my club runs at the Southern Model Show, especially the last two or three years. 

 

Old, beaten up i.c.-powered airframes, perhaps a WOT of some sort we couldn't give away. These would have sold easily enough a few years back and been patched and flying soon after. 

 

Interestingly perhaps, we found that a 'well-flown' foamie, one with plenty of scars and repairs usually found a new home. So I wonder if it's an i.c.-electric thing with many newer flyers and beginners just not au fait with engines?  

 

 

 

 

[Cuban8]

Leccy, what would be your estimate on the average age of your swapmeet attendees?

 

I saw evidence that our hobby is not the only one feeling the pinch. I visited the London Motorcycle Show at Excel, yesterday and had an excellent day.........however, the exhibition space was much reduced with fewer traders and visitors compared with when we last visited in 2019. Thought it odd when we parked up and there were loads of spaces still available. Just the one hall rather than two as before. Not much in the way of purchases of kit from the traders and very few folks walking around with bagfulls of goodies as before - most stall holders looked rather bored. As with aeromodellers, bikers are always up for a chat and talking to several chaps when we had a break for some lunch and at other times during the day, they agreed that it was a good day out but noticeably smaller with a much reduced 'vibe' about the place. I'd certainly support it next year, TBH it was nice to not have the place jam packed - but that's obviously a mixed blessing.

Very few teenagers around - most attending were in their forties and plenty of old geezers like me in their sixities.

I don't think our hobby is doing very much wrong and is far from being unique in the way it's viewed - I can see that things are changing about us.

Edited February 19 by Cuban8

[leccyflyer]

I'm just retired - 65 - and I was below the estimated mean age of those there, most of the attendees I'd estimate were in their late 60s through to 80s, with just a small number that I'd guess were younger than myself. The mode would have been around 70-ish. Didn't see a single teenager and just one or two in their twenties.

[Andy Stephenson]

One policy that has killed off teenager attendance at the flying club is the need for child protection. I remember as a 17 year old driving myself to the club for a flying session back in the 70s. Now things have got paranoid about youngsters even though a flying club is possibly the last place grooming is going to happen. Unless a parent has an interest, kids are not going to be able to take up the hobby.

[GrumpyGnome]

It's an odd one alright. Some if my thoughts.....

 

• Some sellers have well-overpriced stuff that comes out if the car, attracts some interest but no sale because of the price. I myself have looked at some of these at LMA Elvington
• Some sellers seem to have had a clear out of junk that they'll never use - who'd pay £1 for a servo that looks like it's been well used, or a switch, or well-used prop..... possibly risking a model
• Sometimes, traders arrive early, clear out all the decent stuff and sell it on at a profit.

[SIMON CRAGG]

Pretty much the same as we have experienced at swapmeets down ere in sunny Dorzet.

 

What amazes me, is the nearly total shift to electric.  Boxes and boxes of engines for a couple of £ each, (Engines which were sought after only a few years ago). 

 

Lots of oil soaked airframes, heavy batteries, wheels, servos etc. etc.

 

Virtually no youngsters at all, lots of grey heads only!.

 

The hobby is definitely changing. Models that I would have sold easily a few years ago (well priced), have to be virtually given away to the dwindling pot of potential buyers.

 

Despite our best efforts, hard to recruit new members. 

 

The topic was even eluded to in the latest BMFA mag.

 

The hay days are are over IMHO.

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Andy Stephenson said:

One policy that has killed off teenager attendance at the flying club is the need for child protection. I remember as a 17 year old driving myself to the club for a flying session back in the 70s. Now things have got paranoid about youngsters even though a flying club is possibly the last place grooming is going to happen. Unless a parent has an interest, kids are not going to be able to take up the hobby.

 

I was working and living in digs 120 miles from home when I was 17 in 1957 without any adult supervision at all.  What little money I had was spent on my motorcycle (an old BSA C11 250cc ohv) and that wasn't much. Perhaps it was the lack of cash that kept me on the straight and narrow! I didn't feel deprived because we were all in the same boat.  I wasn't officially an adult and able to vote until 21.

 

I used to go to motor-cycle shows and events back in the 50s and 60s when they were packed and was a club member for years organising and competing in trials etc.  I think, starting aeromodelling in the early/mid 1990s after I retired early, I caught the start of the decline.  As a child, I and most of my friends made things from pram-wheeled wagons to model railway bits or 'phones' using ex-WD earphones and throat mikes, as well as the odd aeroplane.  The problem is, now youngsters don't need to make anything - it's as easy to buy.  Not their fault - it just is.

[SIMON CRAGG]

20 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

 

I was working and living in digs 120 miles from home when I was 17 in 1957 without any adult supervision at all.  What little money I had was spent on my motorcycle (an old BSA C11 250cc ohv) and that wasn't much. Perhaps it was the lack of cash that kept me on the straight and narrow! I didn't feel deprived because we were all in the same boat.  I wasn't officially an adult and able to vote until 21.

 

I used to go to motor-cycle shows and events back in the 50s and 60s when they were packed and was a club member for years organising and competing in trials etc.  I think, starting aeromodelling in the early/mid 1990s after I retired early, I caught the start of the decline.  As a child, I and most of my friends made things from pram-wheeled wagons to model railway bits or 'phones' using ex-WD earphones and throat mikes, as well as the odd aeroplane.  The problem is, now youngsters don't need to make anything - it's as easy to buy.  Not their fault - it just is.

Plus various tablets, phones. ipad things, computers etc.

 

Most kids seem to be hooked up to the mains, gazing at their iphone things, oblivious to the outside world.......and traffic.

 

My Grandson was always keen to "come up the club field", until he was 10 years old. Suddenly discovered computers / pizza / coke / warm bedroom etc.

 

End of visits to the patch.

[leccyflyer]

Don't really want to get too diverted into the age range of potential new entrants to the hobby and I've always maintained, from years as a membership secretary, that the potential for growth in numbers is firmly in the ranks of the returnees to the hobby - middle aged chaps who find themselves with a bit of time on their hands, possibly a bit more spare cash after their children have left the nest and rekindling a dormant interest from when they were young/ To have any chance of success these days a youngster needs to be starting with a parent also participating in the hobby - that is simple logistics.

 

The shift in what is of interest to a purchaser is what I'm really looking for views on - there were almost no kits on show or for sale at the swap meet, save a few that had been started and not finished. It used to be that there were serried ranks of kit stashes on show and you could often pick up a nice unstarted kit. Some of the prices for kits on ebay are eye-watering and, of course they can access a wider audience, because they are somewhat easier to post than a completed airframe.

[PDB]

8 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

The shift in what is of interest to a purchaser is what I'm really looking for views on - there were almost no kits on show or for sale at the swap meet, save a few that had been started and not finished. It used to be that there were serried ranks of kit stashes on show and you could often pick up a nice unstarted kit. Some of the prices for kits on ebay are eye-watering and, of course they can access a wider audience, because they are somewhat easier to post than a completed airframe.

 

I think it's online selling which has made a difference, for example I do not have the time to attend a swap meet so my only option is to purchase online. I wish that wasn't the case as I am in the market for some small IC engines and online the prices are very high.

[Robin Colbourne]

The move to ARTF models has bought a lot of people into the hobby without the skills and facilities to repair used models.  I tend to buy a lot from auctions and bring and buys, yet it is very rare to get one that I would feel comfortable flying without any repairs or modifications beforehand.  Fine, if you have years of experience and can see the best way and have the tools to tackle the repair, but for someone with only an electric trainer under their belt, it is a daunting prospect.  They would probably rather buy a new known design mail order with a much greater chance of satisfaction.
The other thing is space to store these secondhand airframes.  Not everyone has a workshop or shed and mothers, girlfriends and wives may tolerate a new ARTF in the house, whereas a dusty, oily and smelly artifact may get the hackles up.

Edited February 19 by Robin Colbourne

[Cuban8]

37 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Don't really want to get too diverted into the age range of potential new entrants to the hobby and I've always maintained, from years as a membership secretary, that the potential for growth in numbers is firmly in the ranks of the returnees to the hobby - middle aged chaps who find themselves with a bit of time on their hands, possibly a bit more spare cash after their children have left the nest and rekindling a dormant interest from when they were young/ To have any chance of success these days a youngster needs to be starting with a parent also participating in the hobby - that is simple logistics.

 

The shift in what is of interest to a purchaser is what I'm really looking for views on - there were almost no kits on show or for sale at the swap meet, save a few that had been started and not finished. It used to be that there were serried ranks of kit stashes on show and you could often pick up a nice unstarted kit. Some of the prices for kits on ebay are eye-watering and, of course they can access a wider audience, because they are somewhat easier to post than a completed airframe.

The age issue is relevant and I agree that by far the most new members to my clubs are those who are around 50 and find themselves with the money and the opportunity to take up where they left off 20 or 30 years ago for all sorts of reasons. We're all doing our best to attract youngsters and there are some that take up the hobby and thrive within it. Unfortunately, the numbers are not sufficient to maintain the aeromodelling population - and as with any species in nature that finds itself under pressure, numbers decline, perhaps terminally. A sort of natural selection, I suppose.

The comments about engines are sad - I have some quite reasonable glow engines from the estate of my late friend - nothing particularly exciting but about twenty items worth from a few quid to maybe seventy or eighty. As they're old and unboxed but I'd say still quite useable, they're not of any interest. I've oiled them up again and just put them to one side for the time being. Younger flyers won't have a clue about them and oldies will probably already have a stock of their own to worry about.

[FlyinFlynn]

I believe the average time spent on social media by a teenager is somewhere around 5 hours a day, how much time does the average model builder spend in his/her shed building models I wonder. Probably not 5 hours EVERY DAY. Is it any surprise to discover there are no teenagers joining the modelling community.

[Don Fry]

20 hours ago, SIMON CRAGG said:

Plus various tablets, phones. ipad things, computers etc.

 

Most kids seem to be hooked up to the mains, gazing at their iphone things, oblivious to the outside world.......and traffic.

 

My Grandson was always keen to "come up the club field", until he was 10 years old. Suddenly discovered computers / pizza / coke / warm bedroom etc.

 

End of visits to the patch.

Arrrrrrrr, but you have planted a set of memories. Normal for adolescents to change. Do you not remember the time when young ladies became alluring to you, and aftershave rather than eau de diesel, became the smell of choice. But still a memory is still there. And they might one day remember.