Biggles' Mess

[Pete B]

Posted by avtur on 03/04/2014 12:43:51:

Posted by David Tweddle on 03/04/2014 12:31:10:

Not just us...

David

That is depressing ... town hall decision making at it's very worst.

Probably the result of some uninformed jobsworth carrying out a risk assessment.

I'm not so sure it's all down to the council covering their backs:

‘We erected the notices banning steam and petrol powered craft on the advice of the model boat club with whom we have a close relationship,’ a spokesman said.

Perhaps there's a rift between the steamers and the sail/leccy guys? - or the club just doesn't want to pay the extra for steam cover on their insurance.

I wonder, if the steamers approached the same insurance company used by the live steam rail enthusiasts, whether that would satisfy the council?

Hope they get it sorted

Pete

[Levanter]

David said the magic words "hydraulic test" and "certificate". Every serious steam buff whether for boats or locomotives knows that to operate in a public area you have to have a certificate for the boiler. That wasn't mentioned once in the report. Nor were safety valves which again have to be tested not only that they relieve at the top end of the working pressure (note working pressure not test pressure) but also that they can vent steam faster than is can be produced. Media bias once again that only leads to encourage the H&S merchants. It is no coincidence that they can't refer to a single incident. Out of control fast boat yes, like anything out of control but electric boats can compete at the highest levels in terms of speed just like aircraft. Mad and also stupid!

[Daithi O Buitigh]

Strange thiugh they banned steam and PETROL. Reading that makes me think that whowever drafted it doesn't know anything about it or the definition would have been 'internal combustion'. As it stands, only petrol (and steam) will be affected - so that leaves it open to glow plug and diesel (neither of which use four star or lead free)

As evanter said, they didn't mention what the boat hat caused injury was poweed by, but it was stated that the steam ones average speed is round 3 knots - hardly likely to shoot out at high speed and injure someone

Niow if they simply banned all power boats (and left it to sail) there could be some slight justification or simply ban all boating in case someone falls in the pond and catches a cold

[Bill_B]

Having finally surrendered my FAC after some 41 years gun ownership I can't imagine how I've not managed to accidentally maim or kill someone, or even myself during my shooting escapades over that time. It must have be a miracle!

Now what was that about a model steam boat?? Heck, they'll be banning those wonderful Mammod steam toys next!

What a sad, sad society we've become.

[David Tweddle]

Posted by Levanter3 on 03/04/2014 13:44:07:

Nor were safety valves which again have to be tested not only that they relieve at the top end of the working pressure (note working pressure not test pressure) but also that they can vent steam faster than is can be produced.

Std engineering rule of two, test at twice the working pressure, In engineering this does not apply for Aircraft, hence jettison fuel before emergency landings.

Or so my Dad said (VC10 wiring).

I am sorry for the Hornets nest this was supposed to be a light hearted look at the other half.

As for me I always look on the Bright side.

David

[David Tweddle]

Pound shop must have.

David

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Here's one for Bruce....Go With The Flow

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I think its a bit thick that Wirral Council get it in the neck over this! As Pete pointed out they were acting on advice from the club!

This is the same council that owes our flying site and I can confirm that they seem a splendid bunch. We've always found them very sensible, helpful and supportive. When we wanted to have the strip ploughed up and levelled - they let us. When we wanted an extension in flying hours allowing an earlier start for electric powered models - again, following some negotiation, they let us. When we had a noise complaint they were very constructive and positive in how they handled it.

And yes they do listen to our point of point on technical aspects of the hobby and insurance issues.

So, I suspect the true story here is "New Brighton Model Boat Club electric/sail boaters want shut of steam powered colleagues"! Only that's not as nice and convenient a package as having a go at the old stereotypes of local council and H&S. Yet another example of lazy journalism in my view I'm afraid.

BEB

[John Olsen 1]

Note that the steam boat ban was actually back in 2011. There was something about it in the Model Engineer at the time. I think really it had more to do with infighting in the club than any actual hazard. Actually having had some experience of both, I would say that the LiPo batteries in the electric boats are a bigger hazard than the type of small boiler used in this type of boat. Small copper boilers fired with burners of limited power are actually pretty well inherently safe. What this means is that if you lock down the safety valve and turn off the steam to the engine, the burner cannot build up enough pressure to cause the boiler to fail. Apart from that, the energy stored in a boiler is a function of the volume, and the amount stored in a typical small model boat boiler is not a great cause for concern. Most regulations have a minimum size below which they don't care what you do...Here in NZ anything below a cubic foot and 100 psi is able to be certified by the model engineering societies, and if I recall correctly, below about a litre or so there is no regulation at all.

How often do people get their Mamod and Wilesco boilers tested anyway? But people tend to fear unfamiliar things and what they don't understand.

John

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Not modelling but just watched news Bob Geldofs daughter Peaches found dead 25 years old. Terrible

[avtur]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 07/04/2014 21:12:05:

...... I think its a bit thick that Wirral Council get it in the neck over this! As Pete pointed out they were acting on advice from the club! ......

BEB

OK it appears I'm a bit thick then.

My comment was based on the 'linked' newspaper reports which states that it was the local council who introduced the ban "... steam boat fans reacted with fury at a ruling from the local council that their boats should stop using the lake ...." followed by a comment from the local boat club "....we had no choice but to support the council..."

On that basis I understood it was the local council who imposed the ban.

Is there a back story to this, as to why the council looked into the matter in the first place ??

Success dealing with local councils can be very hit and miss. Their performance is often a function of the individual person you get to deal with. I am very pleased to hear that your own dealings with the council have shown them to be supportive and helpful.

[Daithi O Buitigh]

Just as an afterthought (seeing the recent May edition goes on about 'Emil' for a 109F) I thought it may be a good idea to add a list of Luftwaffe phonetics (OK - everyone knows Dora, Emil and Gustav)

A Anton
Ä Ärger
B Bruno
C Cäsar
Ch China
D Dora
E Emil
F Fritz
G Gustav
H Hans
I Ida
J Jota
K Karl
L Lucie
M Max
N Nanni
O Otto
Ö Öse
P Paula
Q Quatsch
R Richard
S Sophie
T Toni
U Ulrich
Ü Übel
V Victor
W Wilhelm
X Xanthippe
Y Ysop
Z Zet or Zeppelin

And for those who like waving the modrl roubnd going takatakataka - tally-ho is 'horrido' and 'bandits' is 'Indianer' (honest Injun)

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

OLIVIER goes...

Hi All , I'm proud of the great actress,from a small Croatia...

**LINK**

Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 14/04/2014 09:05:24

[Daithi O Buitigh]

I've always been amazed at the 'certificates' offered for almost everything but this one did catch my eye

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 14/04/2014 20:54:29

[ken anderson.]

handy hint of the day.......no 5..

ken Anderson...ne...1 never beaten dept..

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Hair protection

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Brill

[A.A. Barry]

Guys can someone inform me on what part of the URL I am supposed to delete when posting pics from Photobucket please, ......ol' timers deciese

 

Thanks
barry

Edited By A.A. Barry on 01/05/2014 13:13:50

[Pete B]

Its the first half IIRC, AA. If you post the whole URL on here, I'll show which works and which doesn't​

Pete

[A.A. Barry]

pete this is all I get.

I have written this down from the pic info.....Http://s252 photobucket.com/user/barrywetherell/media/007_ zps15030423.jpg.html][img]http://i252

I think I got it right

[A.A. Barry]

Pete, in the past I have posted heaps of pics, but now......brain fade

Cheers and thanks

Barry

[Spice Cat]

I spent best part of this evening attempting to make the crash pad for my Tiger Moth. I have so far found this quite a challenge as the covering leather has to follow a tight compound curve. I spent some time stretching over the head of a coach bolt and finally managed one part of it and pretty pleased I was too.

I showed my efforts to Laundry Woman who enquired as to their role. "Crash padding" says I. "Goes in front of the pilot".

Laundry Woman pondered this "Why does he need it, he's made of plastic".

Give me strength.

[John Privett]

Posted by A.A. Barry on 01/05/2014 13:48:16:

pete this is all I get.

I have written this down from the pic info.....Http://s252 photobucket.com/user/barrywetherell/media/007_ zps15030423.jpg.html][img]http://i252

I think I got it right

Not quite right Barry! It would be a lot easier to copy and paste rather than writing it down - there were a couple of extra spaces, a missing full-stop, and a chunk missing from the end in what you typed.

• Go to the photobucket page that displays your picture.
• On the right of your pic is the table of "Links to share this photo".
• Hover over the "Direct" link and left-click it. The word 'Copied' briefly appears.
• You have copied that link and can now paste it (Ctrl-V) into the URL field in the Image box.
• The result should be this;

It looks like what you attempted to copy is the bottom of the four links - marked IMG. This combines a link to the photocucket page and also a link to the image. I'm not sure what you'd use that combined link in , much simpler just to grab the "Direct" link in the first place!

 

Edited By John Privett on 10/05/2014 00:49:10

[Pete B]

Thanks for that, John - whilst I'm on walkabout I've missed Barry's further posts. The procedure is indeed as you say and can also be found in the user guides here.

Pete

[A.A. Barry]

Thanks guys, I'm sure in the past I used that IMG link and then deleted some of it ...... anyway it works ... that's the main thing

Barry