Ideal trainer - need help choosing plane

[Redstorm]

With the exception of a small 2 channel foam toy that weiged about as muh as a teabag, I am new to the hobby.

I am looking for a first trainer but it must be 4 channel. I want to learn to fly properly on something that will resemble my next plane.

i also want something quite big (min 48 inch span) so it can fly in the wind.

Was keen on a plane called the flyzone switch (google it) as its both a high wing trainer and a low wing sport. I like the quirkiness and versatility of it but also thought it would be a good investment as it would give me something to progress onto. but sadly not available in the UK. i could import it but if i crashed it then spares would be an issue.

So as much asI like it I am no longer convinced its the right choice. I have seen some scale cessna 182's with circa 1400mm span which i really really like but others (including a top pilot at a local club i visited who flies one himself) have said its not a trainer or beginners plane. So maybe that will be my second plane.

[ken anderson.]

hello redstorm - check out the Wot 4's...they come in RTB/ARTF and plans ..... one of them will get you where you want to be....... there are others also...

ken anderson ne..1 ... Wot dept

[Redstorm]

sorry about that. split into two posts by mistake.

So I am wanting a plane but not sure what to buy. some guys at the local club suggested a seagull e pioneer as its balsa / ply so will withstand the wind better. But i thought foamies were better to learn on.

I was also recommended the WOT4 foam e as a good plane.

Comments and ideas gratefully received

[Phil May]

Take a look at the Seagull Arissing Star, fantastic trainer, tough as old boots and runs great on a .46

 

Phil

Edited By Big Phil on 19/04/2012 08:10:48

[Stephen Grigg]

I would recommend the Seagull Swift,sports Trainer.You have a choice of i/c or electric,or either trike or tail dragger under carriage.When you receive it a lot is already done for you.A word of caution though.You need to strengthen the front wing mount so that when you progress to aerobatics it can take the strain.Ive written a thread on the model and fly it regu7larly.The other model that is excellant is the Multiplex Fun Cub and there is a thread on this model also,electric only. Good ;uck with your choice.

[Steve W-O]

Have a look at the Multiplex Mentor, has all the advantages of foam, and the looks of a built up plane.

It does not need the expensive Multiplex power system, ordinary parts work quite well. As you can see, easy to fit flaps to as well.

The quality is infinitely better than the wot4foame, which although has the motor, esc and servos included, mine were all replaced before it was flown, very poor quality, search here for it, you will see it has had a lot of problems.

If you want something big, the giant Cessna is on special at throttlestore, less than £100, and then electrics. It is big though!

The Multiplex Funcub is also worth looking at, it is heavy enough for the A&B tests, handles the wind OK (until it is strong enough to blow it over on the ground)

 

Again. a cheap motor powers it fine, but it is not quite as big as you would like.

Look on youtube for videos of the Mentor. Mine is 2 years old now, and still looks good, all the stickers are still secure.

Edited By Steve W-O on 19/04/2012 08:23:44

[David Davis]

Assuming you want an ARTF.

Electric: Multiplex Mentor or E Flite Apprentice

Glow: Irvine Tutor or Seagull Boomerang.

All fly well in a wind.

[Ernie]

Hi Redstorm, Can you tell us if you want to build from a kit, a plan, or to have a plane that is almost ready to fly? Also, do you want to use electric power, or internal combustion

ernie

[Dean Jeffery]

I have been looking at IC only, was looking at the thunder tiger trainer, then the tutor 40. Just playing the waiting game now.

[David Davis]

Both fly well. The Tutor 40 is a better flier in a wind owing to its semi-symmetrical aerofoil.

Either will fly well on a 40 but many people fit 46s.

[Redstorm]

Thanks all for the many replies and ideas.

I suppose it would have helped if I had been a bit more specific about my goals.

 

Definitely want to start with elecric, may develop an appetite for IC later but whilst learning don't want to have to think about thinikgs like tuning engines and the like. Electric just stikes me as an easier option - switch on and go.

My initial preference was for foam (EPO / EPP), but am intrigued by a few chaps at the local club who said flying wood will teach me more about flying, as well as being heavier and therefore better behaved in the wind. My reservation, however, is that if I crash a foam, I can probably pop the foam out with some hot water (I read this somewhere), so I see it as quite resilient. Whereas if i buy a balsa / ply model (and I'm happy to do so if there is a distinct advantage) then I will be looking at some proper building skills to get her airborne again, but I will probably get airborne more often and therefore get more stick time, given the often windy and unpredictable British weather.

The seagull e Pioneer may well be a good plance but I just found its looks a bit uninspiring. The Arising star is an improvement looks wise for sure, will check that out.

The WOT4 foam E is also not amazingly inspiring but obviously a very well thought of plane, apparently they are "breeding" at my local club

The E-Flite Apprentice 15e looks great IMO, b ut seems expensive at circa £275 in the UK. Any thoughts on why so pricy? Also since I have radio gear I would prefer a ARTF or TX ready version rather than the version that comes with a DX5e.

I like the cessna alot but having been told its not a trainer am a little loathed to start out on this.

I will check out the other models mentioned - Thanks guys.

Any thoughts on the Spektrum DX6i, I heard they had problems but on the other hand I was told Spektrum are the market leaders and by far the most popular brand. My thinking being they could hardly have that many problems if they kept failing could they?

Edited By Redstorm on 19/04/2012 12:09:20

[Dean Jeffery]

Well I have my eye on a tutor with a .46 but it's in need of a new fuss. Replacement cost is about £42 but unsure it's worth paying X for a plane then another X on replacement parts.

[Frank Skilbeck]

My Spektrum Dx6i is coming up 4 years old, apart from having to replace the trim toggles a couple of times its been fine, the later versions have improved trim toggle design I believe, but they are very easy to replace and Horizon sent me replacements FOC.

As far as foamy models go, Multiplex ar very well engineered and all fly very well.

[Lee Smalley]

the wot 4 is a world class rc model, world class trainer..... not so sure!! all the rest suggested are really good options, the super cub is a tad small for my liking, but the e-pioneer is a great choice, yes not inspiring to look at but what do you want?? do you want a trainer that will do the job fantastically or do you want one that looks great but flies like a dog, personally i would stay away from foam for a few simple reasons, with the bumps and knocks a tyro pilot is likely to give her they age very badly, and repairs when needed are harder to effect to the same strength, the dx6i is a fine tx to start with but be aware that whatever you choose now will fix your allegiance for very many years, so choose wisely

[Lee Smalley]

YOU CAN ONLY POP FOAM OUT WITH HOT WATER TO A CERTAIN DEGREE!!!

trad trainers built from wood are still favoured for learning to fly,,, there is a reason for this tutor calmato etc have been around for donkeys, yes they all look the same, but again there is a reason for this !!! choose this slightly boring route if you want gaurenteed performance and success

[Alwyn Gee]

Hi again

I echo the above by Lee and repeat what I said in your "Greetings" thread.

Alwyn

[Allan Bowker]

Decide what brand of transmitter you are going for (Lee's advice above is good, you will more than likely be with that brand for a few years!). Do this based upon who will be training you at the club. You will need a compatible system if you want them to buddy you (eg: Spektrum to Spektrum or Futaba to Futaba, etc). Do you have a preference what mode will you want to fly? (mode1, mode2,/ throttle on left or right), will your tutor at the club have a preference?

Decide if you are going IC (internal combustion) or Electric. Personally I would choose to go IC with at least a Spektrum DX6i (or DX7 if budget allows). As for the plane, I would recommend a balsa/ply traditional trainer model like the Seagull Arising Star that Big Phil mentioned above. It is a good size, be able to handle wind/gusts, be quite forgiving and take a few knocks and hard landings (spares should be easy to source).

Why IC over electric? Batteries can be a bit costly when you already have a lot of up front costs getting into the hobby and the charging times can be an issue if you don't have many batteries in your arsenal. At least with IC you can just re-fuel and go again and again.

Having said that I only have a few IC models in my hangar at the moment it's all down to personal preferences at the end of the day. Probably best to stay away from 'pretty' scale planes at the moment, if you are learning they won't stay pretty for long and tend be a bit more difficult to fly.

Keep us up to date what you decide, we are all here to help each other.
Good luck!

[Steve W-O]

I have to disagree with the strong feelings against foam, having had both types of trainer.

The foam takes a bigger knock before anything breaks, and in a total disaster isn't as likely to end up as a bag of matchwood. With care and the proper glue, they can be repaired very successfully

As for ageing, well first lets hope he won't be a beginner for so long that ageing plays an important part, secondly minor damage received from transport or landing in a hedge has less effect on foam than it does on film. Of course you can recover film, and not foam.

Cheaper foam planes do damage more easily than good quality ones.

I bought my Mentor more than two years ago to "learn again" after a long break, and the comments at the club I was at then were very favourable, with the instructors commenting that it could become "the" trainer of the future.

It has one visible ding in it, and that is where a prop from another plane flew off and hit it.

There are pros and cons to both, but I think they are fairly well balanced, and after having a balsa trainer in 1975, and the foam now, it is the foam I would suggest for a number of reasons.

[Djay]

Ripmax 40 trainer, or Thunder Tiger 2 trainer.

both practically fly themselfs at a steady speed, which for a learner is ideal.

but can do mild aerobatics once the person gets more confident..

Darryl

[Broken Prop]

I agree with Steve. The Mentor is a lovely plane to fly and with a 4500mh battery you can do flights of up to 20 minutes as it will float around on minimal or no power if you want. Tough as old boots as well. I broke mine in half 5 times (really!), just stuck it back together and off it went.

4Max offer power sets for most of the Multiplex flyers at a lot less cost than the recommended sets.

Good luck!

Pete

Edited By Peter Ward on 19/04/2012 13:58:36

[Allan Bowker]

I own a Multiplex Mentor and still fly it for fun (landings in a 5mph wind are so graceful), however I didn't recommend it as it wouldn't be suitable for IC. It would be on my recommendation list if Redstorm chose electric power (together with something like a Seagull E-Pioneer).

I don't know who the strong feelings against foam comes from Steve, not myself I hope as foam currently outnumbers my planes 3:1and there are many arguments either way for which is better at taking knocks, they both have their pro's and con's. I'm not personally bothered what the plane is built from, it's the flying I love.

The big foam Multiplex Mentor is very good and I'm currently training my dad on it, my only critisism is that it could do with a bit more dihedral (perhaps this could be adjusted yourself?).

[Steve W-O]

Allan

I think he does want electric, and he did say he wanted four channel, so the ailerons and lack of dihedral would suit his needs.

I agree that it lacks dihedral, and your comments are interesting, as I started on it having flown before, so I probably did not notice it didn't right itself so readily, but thinking about it, it does to some degree, much more than some things I fly that if they bank, they just carry on like that. It is something I will make a note of next time I fly it, which will be on my next outing when the weather is suitable.

I have always thought it very stable, especially with a big battery well forward.

I don't think it would be easy to alter the dihedral, as the carbon wing joiner goes straight across with no joining piece in the middle like the Funcub and Easycub.

[Allan Bowker]

Ah yes, the carbon spar rod would stop you altering the dihedral - Doh! How stupid of me, I forgot that!

Yes, looking back he has said he wants to go electric, which was my dad's choice too, hence we went for the Multiplex Mentor. It is a stable plane but dad found his Pulse XT60 easier to fly (weird eh?) . The only conclusion we could come to was that the Pulse had more dihedral.

As I said before though, it's down to personal preferences, we can only recommend based upon our experiences.

Thanks Steve.

[Ian Jones]

An Irvine Tutor 40 II will take you all the way from beginner to beyond your B cert and these days they are quite decently priced. It can be built IC or electric and has good aerobatic capabilities for a trainer.

There's plenty of others to choose from and the list of the best one will grow with every post so your problem will be finding a reason to choose one over the other. So a few ideas that might help:

• You want to be able to fly well in the wind - many foam models and all models with a flat bottomed wing tend to get tossed about more in the wind than a semi-symetrical wing built up model (balsa etc) would do.
• The likes of the Seagull & Irvine trainers are tough old birds that can be adapted for other uses (skis, bombs, cameras even towing light gliders) so, so long as you don't have a disaster then they could have future uses.
• To really progress you need to get lots of stick time in, that means arriving at the field and being in position to get in 4 or more flights. So extra batteries or the means to quickly recharge the ones you have is essential.
• Batteries can last a long time but if abused will not last long at all.
• Learning on a non trad trainer can work but often it's a short cut that doesn't work as well it might seem for a number of reasons. The most significant I think is that it can take longer to acquire flying skills & confidence to be really ready to move on to aircraft that require a greater level competency. Result (or non result), it takes longer to get you to the real scale models that you want to be flying.

I too would endorse the advice given by Lee Smalley.

Oh, I also meant to say that it would be a good idea to get in a try before you fly flight with a club instructor (as they are usually authorised to do this and therefore you would be insured). Everyone has different abilities and it may be that you are such a natural pilot that you can go straight onto a spitfire ; on the other hand, based on what the instructor sees, he may well be able to suggest an aircraft just right for your training needs.

Edited By Ian Jones on 19/04/2012 16:19:18

[Richard Harris]

Redstone,

Why not make a short list of the models you have seen and like the look of, then pop down to your local flying field and get advise from there.

We have all got our own preferences regarding models and radio etc but its always wise to speak to club mates about things. They may well generally have futaba/ Spektrum, or what ever, (they all have their 'pro's and con's) but the biggest thing is having a radio that people locally to you are used to and can help you with.

Take me, I have always used Futaba and would recommend Futaba to anyone new. Not because I think it is better but because I know I can assist if functions need altering etc.

As for a trainer the world really is your oyster, I have a few foam models but only for convenience and probably laziness on my part. In my eyes they are functional but cheap looking, but all the foamies I own are good fliers.

On the foamy trainer front I recommend the ST Discovery, for what it is it is a great flier in all weathers.

I hope you haven't dismissed a traditional kit or a plan built trainer? there is nothing better than building your own model and flying it. Plus it will give you huge experience if a bump comes along the way.

Rich