Nieuport 28

[Tim Hooper]

Just a few pics of the latest ongoing project!

Netty bought this for me as a surprise gift, and now the board is clear so work has started in earnest.

Briefly, we're looking at an 80" WW1 bipe, with all balsa construction. It's designed for a 23cc petrol, but I'm going to attempt my first 'big' electric model, so there's a big outrunner (running off 10S cells) waiting to make an appearence.

So some pics, then.....

Some attractive box art. Pegasus Models import this kit and it retails for a tad over £250. Blimey.

The Turnigy G160 is capable of turning a 20x10 prop on 10S. Cost less than £70 too!

The contents of the box. There's more wood here than in many a model shop. Note the yard rule in the bottom right corner. The supplied ABS cowl is destined to be replaced by the optional aluminium item later.

A very detailed instruction leaflet.

The rudimentary hardware pack. Mind you, as it's an American kit all the fixtures have US threads.

There's over 50 sheets of diecut bits, so it made sense to use the printed crib to identify all the parts, yes?

Shame the enclosed replacement is also 3mm too narrow.......

tim

Edited By Tim Hooper on 01/05/2012 21:55:59

[Alan Cantwell]

jonesy built the 1/3rd scale D7, he found it easier to lose the american hardware, and replace with metric, looked to be a quality kit, he enjoyed the build, and had no real problems,

[Tony Bennett]

have you finished it yet.

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Blimey Tim that looks a biggie. You'll be able to use the top wing to take off from, with some of your models! Good luck, have fun and keep us posted.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Oh.....green with envy....beautiful!

BEB

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Beb - As a Bi-plane lover you could overlook that little alteration....

@ Tim - what will this baby show on the scales? Still below the magic 7kg?

Looking forward to see it - if you build at your usual speed you could easily maiden it at Greenacres...

(VA, not even started with his Cygnet  

[Tim Hooper]

Thanks for the quick responsse lads!

Vec, It's billed as being between 12 to 15lb AUW. I'll try to keep it as light as possible. Putting as much of the hardware as possible in the cowl will hopfully mean that I won't need too much noseweight.

It's funny. I get a fair response to my own designs, and there's often a question asking why on Earth did I did something in a particular way, when it would obviously be easier/cheaper/faster/stronger to do it differently. Now the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak, and I can't help but wonder why the designers did things the way they did!

As a fr'instance, the whole wing is built on 3/32" spacers, to allow for the later fitment of the lower capstrips. So why didn't they just lay the capstrips on the board first, and then build the wing on top, eh? Sheesh, you'd they'd know better, wouldn't you?

tim

Edited By Tim Hooper on 01/05/2012 23:00:24

[Reno Racer]

I'll be watching your build throughout to pick up tips etc. I have Balsa USA's Nieuport 11 in 1/4 scale, although mine will be traditionally powered by a 26cc petrol. Although only 12Lbs AUW you would assume it will be well over powered but, i will not be flying full throttle and plan to spin a bigger 19x8 Xoar dark brown WW1 wooden scimitar prop at lower rpm to keep the noise level down - probably not an issue with electric.

As an aside (as part of my stocking up on US stuff before I return to Blighty), I ordered a fibreglass cowl to replace the ABS one in the kit. Got it from Fiberglass specialists in the US. Its very well made; The cowl on a 1/4 scale is BIG and flimsy ABS just isn't right - IMHO

Also got some cracking MG high torque servos from Dymond, they were not that expensive, but when you hold them in your hand, they exude quality and probably over kill for the Nieuport.

In fact the only thing left to buy, before I start building is the 10m of solartex. But I'm just waiting for the right time to buy 60 quids worth of film!!

Chris

[Reno Racer]

Forgot to add, as usual I bought mine for $250, not 250 quid. The 60% extra mark up is nicei n the UK! - hence my frantic stock up at the minute!

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

The Aluminium cowl will be a good idea on the electric one - if my Pup is anything to go by you're going to need to shift every ounce of weight as far forward as you possibly can - I even have the battery pack in the cowl! These WW1 bipes have incredably short noses - never mind a "church roof" you need a medium size cathedral if you're not very careful! I've actually seen these type of models built by the "let's beef it up" team with close on 1Kg of lead in the nose!

BEB

[Tim Hooper]

BEB,

Believe me, that cowl is going to be so suffed with RC goodies in an attempt to get it to balance without ballast! The motor will have to be mounted so that the shaft protrudes out out of the front, and I'm hoping that the ply box I want to build as a mount will also be able to carry the 10S cell -pack immediately behind the motor. There's also a 2S back-up rx pack, and three hefty servos looking for a home too!

Christian,

Re; the prop noise. You'd be surprised just how much racket an electric prop can generate, particularly when mounted right in front of a radial-type cowl!

tim

[Simon Chaddock]

Tim

It is one of my pet hates adding lead to a plane!

I do hope you can organise the build to manage without it.

[Kevin Fairgrieve]

I shall be watching this with interest.

I have a thing for 1/4 scale WW1 aircraft. I currently own a 1/4 scale Fokker DVIII and am looking for a stable mate. Good old petrol power for me though.

I have obtained a set of plans for a BUSA Sopwith Pup from which I hope to be able to build a model. Like you Tim I do wonder sometimes why the designer/builder does things a certain way.

Kev

[Tim Hooper]

Posted by Simon Chaddock on 02/05/2012 23:45:38:

It is one of my pet hates adding lead to a plane!

I do hope you can organise the build to manage without it.

Well, here's the plan Simon....

There looks to be ample room in the cowl for the Turnigy up front, closely followed by the twin 5S packs (one either side of the backwards-protruding shaft. Now what else can I cram in there?

 

Anyway, back to tbuilding board;

Here's the upper left wing in its skeletal state. Remember that it's 40 inches long

I've left off the rootrib for the time being, and infilled in between the spars to give me somewhere to site the joiner tube. Did I mention that I'm going to split the wing to form a 2-piece?

The tips are a little unusual in that their outlines are laminated from a liteply and balsa sandwich. What's really odd is that only one of the four spars actually extends as far as the tip outline.

Now here's the bad news.  Pictured here are the left and right inner leading edges.  One is like granite.  One is like putty.  Both are bowed badly.  Both are now in the bin, and have been replaced from my stock.

tim

Edited By Tim Hooper on 03/05/2012 21:57:42

[Stephen Jones]

Boy you lucky devil ,

i wish my misses was like that .

[Tim Hooper]

It's a tough life, Stephen......

Anyway, just got back from a weekend in Norwich, so called in at Pegasus Models and gave their stocks of goodies some serious abuse!

The supplied ABS cowl will be ousted in favour of the pukka BUSA aluminium item. Nice....!

Oh, and two (wooden) Vickers gun kits.....

Then on a more general note five HS635 servos, a Spekky rx., a Perkins 100A high-voltage (up to 12S) ESC, a blob of a pilot. Bargain of the day has to be the Overlander 20x8 wooden prop for less than £8!

tim

[John Olsen 1]

I'm currently building the Balsa USA 1/3 scale Morane-Saulnier AI. That too has some features that make you wonder what they were thinking of. One interesting feature is that they show gussets, both on the plan and in the photos, with the grain running parallel to one of the glue joints, whereas my understanding is that the grain should run parallel to the long side. That is how I do it anyway. However it is building up into a nice looking model. My answer to the weight problem was to splash out and buy an ASP five cylinder radial, and as this has to mount on a box in front of the original firewall to bring the prop to the right place it makes a good contribution to bringing CoG forward. The box also provides a place to mount things like a glow driver and its battery, as well as the throttle servo, which should all help with the balance. Preliminary checks suggest it won't need too much adjustment. Mine came with a 12 inch diameter alloy cowl, I am thinking about getting it powder coated as a way to get a good durable finish.

regards

John

[Paul Marsh]

Why on earth did the kit supply a naff abs cowl? Balsa USA should be a good kit manufacturer.

I've got a 1/3 Cub from Balsa USA, again with a ABS Cowl, but Pegasus Models had a proper Glass Fibre one.

...pity you're not fitting an engine, though...

[Wingman]

Tim - regarding the weight problem - at 1/4 scale you may be able to find a saucepan that would be the right size for the cowl - you could get thick ali, stainless steel or even copper bottomed to get the weight up forward.

[Tim Hooper]

Wingman, I already have the cowl!

Paul, I agree about the ABS being a non-starter. A fibre glass one would be a good option for those who need to paint the cowl later.

John, Got any pics of the Morane?

Anyway I've spent a pleasant afternoon here.  Whilst the LE sheeting dries on a wing panel, I've set about making the tailplane.  It's quite a sizeable item at 28" span, but only 1/4" in thickness.  I'm planning to make it removable.  Pics to follow...

tim

Edited By Tim Hooper on 07/05/2012 17:31:44

[Tim Hooper]

Here's the tailplane!

I've built the two elevators as a single unit, and then cut them apart after construction. The curved outlines are designed to be butt-jointed together, but I altered a few things so that the joints are staggered for strength.

The diagonals are 3/16 square and are recessed within the 1/4" structure so that they don't show through the covering.

tim

[Gary Murphy 1]

Sorry to jump in but can i ask if the build manual is good for perhaps a novice? I am ok on the actual manual stuff its just any technical terms or methods that are taken for granted and not mentuioned in the manual.

Forgot to ask.How do you rate the quality? The picture of the die cut sheet looks to show they are not very sharp.did you have to recut any parts?

Edited By Gary Murphy 1 on 09/05/2012 09:08:13

[John Olsen 1]

Hi Tim,

I only have one useful photo at this stage, not all that good but it gives some idea. Since then I have done a lot of work on radio and engine installation. I am about to rethink some of the radio...the elevator and rudder controls have snakes that are four feet long, I think there is too much flex in this so I am considering putting in another snake for each one and making them push pull. The elevators already have a separate snake and servo for each half. I have used high torque digital servos too, this is a big plane. The wingspan is 8ft 6".

I also have a Fokker triplane on the production line, that has taken a backseat for a while as I was finding that the almost exact scale structure looked a bit too flimsy, especially around the nose. It is done with dowel to be just like the original steel tube. After letting it sit and mature while I got on with the Morane, I have decided that I will put a plywood box structure, cut away as much as is reasonable to lighten it, inside the dowel structure. This will give some much needed strength to tie the firewall to the wings and undercarriage. It tapers away to nothing around the cockpit area.

I too have bought two of the Vickers gun kits, although I am looking for some 1.25 inch plastic tube to improve on the cardboard for the cooling jacket. Actually most of the Moranes only had one, they were only a small plane. But plenty of firepower is always good...now I wonder about some high intensity flashing LEDs inside the end of the barrels!

Those rounded tips and leading edges on the Nieuport would have lent themselves nicely to being laminated the other way, eg with thin strips bent around the curve and glued together.

Gary, I know you were asking about the Nieuport not the Morane, but they are from the same company and maybe my thoughts might be helpful. I would suggest that any scale WW1 plane is probably not an ideal first construction model (Or for a trainer for flying either!) The size is not the issue, big is good because an error of a given size is much less significant on a bit one, and the bits tend to be less fiddly, although the rigging on most WW1 jobs is a bit fiddly. On the other hand, if it is what you really want to do, then you would be able to do it, probably with a bit of extra reading along the way, eg like the series of articles in the mag recently. Generally the quality in my kit has been very good. A few points of the design make you wonder, but then the Morane is a reissue of a very old kit from the seventies. So there are things like the plan showing a single aileron servo, although they have updated the words to say put in two. When it was designed you didn't want the length of wire that two servos needed as it would cause interference, no longer such a problem. I've found the die cutting pretty good, obviously not as good as laser cutting but good enough. Incidently you should generally proceed on the idea that you are going to cut out the die cut parts by going around with a knife as it avoids annoyance if you find parts that have not quite cut right through, and even where it has, the bits they have left to stop the part dropping out can cause problems.

I'm not a diehard who would say that you must build your own models, ARTFs are fun too, but I would encourage anyone who would like to try to have a go at building from kits or plans. Even if you find you don't want to do it all the time, it could stand you in good stead when something not too serious breaks on a favourite ARTF.

regards

John

[Tim Hooper]

Gary,

Further to Gary's excellent answer, I've been pleasantly surprised just how well the old-fashioned diecut parts fit together. All the spars are a smooth and snug fit into the slots in the ribs.

Although I certainly wouldn't recommend the kit to a novice, I'll say there's one of two options with the manual; either follow it religiously word-for-word, or throw it away completely and do your own thing!

I've not had to re-cut any parts so far, but as I'm making some bits up as I go along I'll modifying some areas anyway.

John, I also have the foor-feet snakes to fit! I'll go with separate elevator servos and snakes, and also go with closed loop for the rudder (no snakes though...)

I also considered laminating the wing tips on the Nieuport, but as the structure won't be seen through the silver Solartex, there didn't seem to be much point. The supplied parts fit well enough, and and should be amply strong. As long as I don't cartwheel it, of course!

tim

[John Olsen 1]

I went and saw my LMS and they had some snakes that are steel all the way instead of the nylon ones I had, so I will try fitting them as this will be easier than going the push-pull route. Either of course is easier than rebuilding the whole affair if something goes wrong with the controls.

There is plenty of room in the fuselage, especially at the front, so it would not be too hard to go to closed loop just using cables under tension with guides at one or two points. Quite authentic too I guess.

I have mostly followed the manual, but not totally, I have improved things where I know how. Of course it does not really cover the radio installation so you have to ad lib that. I'm using an ASP 400 five cylinder radial so am including a glow driver and its separate battery. I haven't run the engine yet, one day soon I must pluck up the courage....

regards

John