Does your club allow members to fly by themselves?

[PeterF]

Yes it is allowed but not positively encouraged. Recently we saw what could be a downside when a member collapsed on the flight line when there were a group of us there and I had to arrange an ambulance. Had he been on his own then we do not know what would have been the outcome for him personally. Luckily, there was an instructor on the line observing someone and he managed to get the tranny and bring the model down. However, we are logical enough to recognise that anyone doing anything rural alone (walking, cycling, horse riding etc.) would always run this risk and our site is remote at the end of a private gated road, hence downed models are relatively low risk, therefore it seems OTT to ban it, but to make sure caution is practised.

[len talaga]

Lone flying not approved at the club field in case of illness or injury where assistance is not then available.

Sensible enough reason,

However I have never had my safety compromised (twice) by any near misses from fellow pilots at my holiday home address where I fly alone on common land.

I am now considering showering with a friend in case I slip on the soap

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Posted by Ernie on 02/08/2014 09:01:17:

Hi Pete, that's not large blankspaces, that's typographical layout

Artistic censorship, what next?

ernie

Haha - I was only trying to help Ernie. If it was typographical layout that you were keen on - let me know how many carriage returns you want in it, and I'll put them back

(Although, if you couldn't work out what I'd changed, then I don't think you really mind?)

 

(Edited because of my own Typos - Doh!)

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 05/08/2014 09:18:22

[Alan Smith 3]

Both my clubs allow solo flying and long may it continue.

The restrictions some clubs have to operate under (noise, flying times, etc,) are bad enough, without us placing unnecessary restrictions on ourselves. If you don't think it's safe to fly solo, don't fly solo. But please, don't try to stop me from flying solo.

[Cuban8]

I wouldn't mind betting that statistically, you're at more risk of injury or death during the drive to the flying site, or using power tools at home in your workshop..............but nobody worries too much about that.

As in my previous post, unless there are specific regulations imposed on a club by a landlord or other, I find it totally unacceptable for a club committee to 'nanny' its members by imposing a no lone flying rule. Where a club committee has passed such an edict and there is opposition to it, the democratic process should get it changed, or if the opposition is sufficiently numerous............get another committee!

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 06/08/2014 07:56:59

[Ernie]

I never thought the nanny state would become an aeromodeller

ernie

[Erfolg]

Ernie, just goes to show, that there are always those in every organisation and walk of life that are all to eager to tell others what they should and cannot be allowed to do.

The difficulty is resisting this pernicious influence, as they often seek positions of influence, whilst the well balanced majority cannot be bothered. Those who resist are often brow beaten into submission on the grounds of being, reckless, loose cannons or by the invention of often mythical rules and regulations, or just as invidious a distorted interpretation.

Yes, some are aeromodellers, not all are car park attendants (of the worse kind), or petty bureaucrats, are even those shoving a thick book down the back of their pants!

[Cuban8]

To be fair, the vast majority of those that do serve on committees, do so with the right mindset, and only rarely do we find wanton rule makers or those who seek to 'throw their weight around'.

Clubs should be run by consensus, although ordinary members are sometimes reluctant on many occasions to voice their disapproval, allowing bad rules to be passed and a club to go into decline.

[Erfolg]

In many respects I agree with you, in that without the efforts of a few people, many clubs would not exist. It is unfortunate in many respects that this is the case, as without that very small cadre of people there is no club.

The other side of the coin, is that it does not take many, just one, jobs worth, is enough to create a fiefdom, where some very dubious and contentious rules to be introduced.

An example, would be one persons distorted view of how to fly electric models safely, could lead to the imposition of rules more appropriate to IC models, whilst ignoring the methods of arming and safety systems which would or are appropriate to electric models.

This issue of self determination to personal risk when working, playing, or doing nothing, by oneself is just symptomatic of attitudes of a tiny minority of the population, who seek to protect us from ourselves, as they see the situation.

[Cuban8]

Posted by Erfolg on 06/08/2014 10:46:58:

The other side of the coin, is that it does not take many, just one, jobs worth, is enough to create a fiefdom, where some very dubious and contentious rules to be introduced.

Funnily enough, I'm aware of such a person in a club to which I'm not a member. Even stranger, is the reluctance to do anything about it from the general membership of that club, given that their committee is (re)elected annually and the individual could be removed by democratic means. Sadly, as in many other walks of life, we often only get what we deserve if we can't be bothered to do anything about it.

Going a bit off topic - maybe the next pole should be along the lines of 'are you satisfied with your committee?'

[dave wal]

there will always be certain characters who will want to control and set the rules.

if you were all marooned on a desert island ,these would be the people who organised the treasure hunts, the

camp fire singsong plus various other activities. they call themselves senior organisers.

i am near 82 years old,may be i should not take my dog out for a stroll through the wepre woods.

sadly how many grandchildren have been stopped for playing conkers because of the risk.

to all would be controlers take care on the roads watch out for the mad drivers.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Trying not to wander too far off topic, rules do have a place within the shared environment of a club - to guide the unwary and control the excesses of the reckless. They should be applied with reason, though and nothing is truer than the old saying that "rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" - which says something about the "rules is rules" mentality.

As an example, we have a start-up line at the front of our pits, introduced to protect members from someone starting a model behind others - dangerous enough should a prop be thrown and even more so should a model become unrestrained. With the large take up of relatively powerful electric models, we extended this rule to connecting EP batteries in front of this line - a moment's thought shows that an electric model has at least as much potential to run away through fault or error - but you wouldn't believe how difficult it has been to get the majority to comply. We have publicised it through newsletters and word of mouth with little success and the only way to get all members to implement it is to be vigilant (and yes, sometimes this might be seen as officious) at the field. This is a rule which was proposed by the committee and agreed by the membership at an AGM and I see nothing unduly onerous or "weight throwing" about educating/encouraging compliance (preferably) and enforcing it if necessary (happily this hasn't yet been the case and is unlikely) through sanctions.

 

Edited By Martin Harris on 06/08/2014 11:19:34

[The Wright Stuff]

Agree that many of the problems occur when a view of the situation, however well-intended, is not representative of the true risks involved. The electric versus IC model is a good specific example. At best, the misunderstandings lead to rules which have no beneficial effect on safety, and at worst, the rules can even make the situation less safe.

On the other hand, there are many situations in life where the rulemakers DO have a better appreciation of the risks and hazards involved than the individual, and so rulemaking, although unpopular, is entirely appropriate.

For example, "if I choose to fly alone, that should be my decision". Can I also legitimately say: "If I choose not to wear my seatbelt, that should be my decision"?

There is a line to be drawn between the two (in my opinion), problems only occur when the committees draw that line in the wrong place!!!

[Romeo Whisky]

Allowed (and sometimes almost unavoidable) but discouraged for very sound safety reasons. (Nothing "nanny" about it - it's plain common sense).

[Erfolg]

Not every one sees the wearing of goggles and gloves  for Conker playing, as common sense, nor the idea that advising the wearing of such protective clothing is other than a "Nanny State" mind set.

On a similar basis, not all see that the idea that it is common sense that you should not fly a model alone. As has been written now a few times, there are many aspects of life where we undertake tasks alone.

I wonder would Wainwright have been able to have written his books, if he had to be accompanied on his treks. Mark Beaumont would never have produced the TV series. How many cyclists would be denied the Lands End to John O'Groats cycle ride. All of which are much more inherently hazardous.

Just saying something is common sense, does not make it so, although it may be your opinion.

 

 

Edited By Erfolg on 07/08/2014 11:02:20

Edited By Erfolg on 07/08/2014 11:02:50

[Andrew Leftwich]

Our field is a live grass strip, planes come & go at any time so a spotter is needed.

Just thought if you are flying alone at your club site, whats to stop those with less care or skill then flying off site, in a park, near a road, a school, a path & the consequences of any mishap, do we need adverse publicity.

I don't mind if Stu flies his plane by himself as long as he takes his own head off with it when its out of control !

agl

[crispin church]

lone fly yes but someone else dont have to be a flyer must be near by to spot any aircraft coming in to land ect as its active RAF / army airfield

[Dean Hunter]

My club does allow solo flying. The club site is a little isolated. The majority of members do not fly solo, it is only a few. Personally I choose not to my solo as accidents can happen......

[Wingman]

We do allow solo flying in our club but we have a test all flyers must pass before doing so - see here

[Tomtom39]

We have one of those too (but blindfolded and holding the Tx behind their back!). Thanks Wingman that photo really put a smile to my face!

On a serious note. This poll has generated a fair amount of debate amongst club members with every one being allowed to send an email to the safety officer with their views. I changed the question to "should the club allow members to fly on their own" The overwhelming majority (98%) did not feel happy to do so . So agreed no change to existing guideline/advice ie if possible take another person to strip if flying (this is not a rule to stop people if they are on their own - Rule only applies to those members that have not passed the club solo test or underage .

So thanks for all the input here and to some extent its also helped those in our club too shy to voice their opinion in our open meetings to have a say by sending this by email .

[terry thorpe]

Neither english clubs I belong to allow solo flying, my Spanish club does.

It is a very silly situation that i am not allowed to fly alone in an area reserved for model aircraft but i may walk across the road and fly alone in a public park with no arguments.

It would make more sense if solo flying was allowed but limited to small electric park flyers.

There has been much progress in small electric aircraft, maybe it time to reconsider.

I know about the arguments of health and safety, there are many thing I do alone which are dangerous, if you look at them that way, that is up to me.

Terry

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

My club allows members to fly on their own - but does stress the potential risks you expose yourself to in doing that. Which seems a fair enough position to me.

I think it should be a judgement for the individual modeller. For example I would be completely happy flying alone with my Dawn Flyer or Parkzone Extra. I might be rather less happy with a 100cc petrol jobbie. Just common sense really.

On the other hobby horse being riden here; its all the fault of the "evil committee". I don't know how your clubs are run, but if its via a constitution based on the BMFA model constitution I've no idea how this wicked body manages to dominate you so ruthlessly! In my club while any rule change can be proposed by the committee - it can only be adopted and become a reality if the majority of the membership present at the AGM vote in favour of it. You do go to your AGM? Yes?

BEB

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Posted by Wingman on 28/08/2014 14:04:39:

We do allow solo flying in our club but we have a test all flyers must pass before doing so - see here

Interesting photo Wingman, straight out of my modelflying albums. Glad they like it

[will -0]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 15/09/2014 21:03:46:

On the other hobby horse being riden here; its all the fault of the "evil committee". I don't know how your clubs are run, but if its via a constitution based on the BMFA model constitution I've no idea how this wicked body manages to dominate you so ruthlessly! In my club while any rule change can be proposed by the committee - it can only be adopted and become a reality if the majority of the membership present at the AGM vote in favour of it. You do go to your AGM? Yes?

BEB

You might assume that that's how all clubs work, but in reality this is not the case for at least one (which was set up with by the sectretary who cannot be removed) and in effect another (comitee are generally left to get on with it coz we don't need lots of rules all over the place, happily).

[Martin Dance 1]

My club doesn't allow solo flying not just for the obvious reasons of personal safety, injuries from props etc. Our site is open to the public (bless them) and apart from their habit of strolling across the active runway, my thought is imagine how lonely you would feel if you hit and injured some ones dog when surrounded by a pack of braying dog lovers after your blood, having someone else there as a look out/ witness would provide some measure of comfort