How long does it takes to complete a typical ARTF?

[Cuban8]

Posted by Paul Marsh on 28/03/2015 08:54:54:

Others took longer, longest was a YT Spit, which has some issues, being fiberglass and fitting problems - also made the tail dual elevator, as a single pushrod is wrong for a 120 size warbird.

Took four years on my YT Spit - admittedly it was an early version, and the quality was appalling so I gave up with it and stored it away. Eventually finished it and got it flying - and to my surprise and delight, it performed very well! Met its demise after a dead stick landing off the patch (caused by broken crank pin in ASP 120 - that's another long story) and the model broke its back. Subsequent investigation revealed the fuz behind the wing TE was nearly all gel coat - not good.

Rebuilt the engine (at an extraordinary cost for the spares I might add) and fitted it in a Hanger 9 P47 along with the gear from the Spit. The Spit's wreckage made a spectacular fire in my garden incinerator and the P47 and engine still perform really well

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Masher on 28/03/2015 06:56:14:

For people who say there is no answer to this survey or can't be exact, just think average or typical times. The reason I suggested this survey was to get an idea of how "optimistic" the marketing is on these things. I've had good and bad examples and amongst the bad ones there have been bits that simply will not work/fit as per instructions - this could mean long delays for the less experienced.

I put 1 month which covers all my experiences except the Escale Seafire which is now into the 6 months region because I've completely lost interest in it - far too much wrong with the retracts so spoilt the experience

What's a typical ARTF though?

I was once told by a fellow club member that it took him half an hour to install his radio gear into his models. Having been brought up in pre adjustable travel, servo reversing days, I still take pride/see value in a properly mounted and set up servos and linkages so half an hour is probably the time per servo - and if I feel the makers ideas are lacking it can take far longer if I do some redesigning.

In my experience, all ARTFs are different and I'm struggling to be able to define a "typical" one - maybe you need to pick a few popular examples and canvass opinions on them?

[Erfolg]

It may surprise many, I do build from scratch, I also build from kits.

I will also say without any shame i also build ARTF models and also fly them on a regular basis. I feel strongly that there is no typical or average ARTF model.

In the category of built in half an hour class, are these models which I regularly fly

• PZ Stinson Reliant
• PZ Albatros
• HK Arcus.

I fly Futaba, yet sticking in my Frsky Rx, reversing the throttle on the Tx, has the model in the sky without the need to set the neutrals, just the throws. These are rock solid models that the average to below average flyer (that is me) can take of, do basic aeros and they land themselves. Not only that they are incredibly robust, compared to my balsa builds.

The second Category models, which have taken me weeks, are the following.

• GWS Harvard
• Nito Planes Dornier 355
• Durafly Bf110

There is one plane that did take me about a day, that is a HK Firenza (ne Rainbow), although that was down to me. Along with a 3d Techone Pulama.

The term ARTF is a very elastic term.

Some just require a Rx, others are like building an Airfix kit, with all the linkages and servos to be mounted.

[Masher]

It's not that big a deal Martin - just a bit of fun!

A couple of things (a) I'm an engineer so I try to do things properly which may be my first mistake (b) the actual model that prompted the suggestion for the survey was the ARFT Acrowot!

Like many, I know the Acrowot inside out and I have built flown most of them including: Kit built "original" one, plan built copy (Colin Usher's Killerwatt), and two ARTF's. My first ARTF was flown to death and rebuilt many times so I knew it intimately. Unfortunately there came a time when it was a case of one crash too many. Having enjoyed it so much I immediately bought another, they are still excellent value but...........

This second one had numerous issues, some of which are well documented:

Rubbish covering (where the clear comes adrift from the colour layer before assembly)

Rubbish "plywood" (where the U/C and bulkhead plates are delaminating before assembly)

Some rubbish accessories (where the plastic clevisies are so brittle they break on fitting)

Hideous elevator control (large diameter dowel which is hard to get into place and must be "bent" resulting in friction)

Hopeless wing retaining captive nuts (where the thread is practically non-existent)

I could go on but you get my drift. All of these things, except the Chinese covering, are easy to fix but take time. Also, what does a beginner do? Do all these issues result in more maiden disasters than there should be?

Anyway, all done and, once again, good old Acrowot 2 is flying perfectly and remains a favourite of mine

[Steve T]

Putting together (I won't use the term 'building') 😉 an ARTF foamie has never taken more than a day and then maiden, same for the balsa and ply Seagull Epioneer. Having said that they are bog standard, no mods at all. Regretting that now as I take down my Dynam Spit to totally gut and mod as the current post on this forum.👍

Edited By Steve T on 28/03/2015 12:37:45

[Cuban8]

'Masher' makes a good point about having an engineering background.

For my sins, I spent almost 40 years in industry installing and repairing all manner of kit, and even though I gave that all up a few years ago, I just can't get out of the habit of trying to do things right, because at the time, if I didn't do a good job I'd get a recall and a black mark against me - there was also the small matter of having pride in my work as well!. It can drive you to distraction on an ARTF when the designers or perhaps the people who have put the item into production have made a shambles of something and one knows that as sure as 'eggs is eggs' something's going to fail or give trouble. The list of ARTF 'howlers' has been well documented and I suppose we could all list our pet hates.......................do some designers have a mental blank when it comes to connecting up a throttle (IC engine) to the throttle servo and having a fuel tank in the way?

What is clear is that most of the ARTFs I've built, couldn't possibly have been put together and flown by the factory using the supplied instruction booklet (my latest Seagull Sea Eagle bares little resemblance to the manual in several areas) so it's not surprising that many less experienced modellers have problems. Sadly this is an area that is often glossed over in some magazine reviews.

[Dai Fledermaus]

The question which should have been asked is not how long it takes, but how much time are you allowed to take.

I find that if I cross that very fine line between maintaining domestic harmony and pursuit of the hobby, my wife develops early symptoms of what I call The Face. They usually show up as increasing tetchiness and if I head for the workshop once too often, it results in a glare powerful enough to stop me in my tracks at 20 paces prompting me to say something like "what have I done now" at which point I usually get the benefit of her opinion.

I envy you fellers who get a model ready in days or even in weeks.

[Dane Crosby]

I obtained a Seagull Swift. As soon as I looked at it I decided that the front wing mounting was too weak for a trainer. I made a lot of strengthening parts out of liteply and epoxy. The fuel tank leaked and was replaced. A fair amount of fettling was required to make the control runs move smoothly and correctly. Of note, although the box blurb stated the control hinges were fitted, but they needed to be refitted using cyano.

Not the model's fault, but I couldn't get my 2nd hand engine to run. I just thought it was me getting used to a rear needle that I hadn't come across before. Just about to give up when a highly experienced club mate discovered that the idle needle had been tightened up and jammed. He fixed it and now we are off!!

two weeks for the ARTF and one week to sort the engine!

Despite all this, a lovely docile trainer to fly with a long endurance from the large tank and frugal .40 glo 2 stroke.

[Erfolg]

Well we have moved a long way from how long it takes to build. I guess to what we think of ARTF models in the entirety.

I will rush into the breach and defend HZ manuals as excellent. My HK Arcus is also excellent, as is the Techone build manual. I can also say that my Fantastic Models GB instructions Gee Bee R1 is also up to the mark.

In my opinion not all manuals are bad or poor.

As to the build quality, most of my models are foam. These are pretty robust as previously stated.

I have one built up ARTF, which is a Black Horse Gilmore Special which has not as yet flown.

I can honestly say, or should that be a confession, they are in many ways better than models I build, they actually fly well.

As for my qualifications, I to claim to have been an engineer, having started out life as an apprentice, holding a degree and I am still a Chartered CEng. I am not as critical of ARTF models as some. I know I am no Mr Fenton, or many of the other builders on the site, on that basis, ARTF work for me.

[Tomtom39]

I have to say that's an interesting question to answer as I'd find it difficult to define "typical ARTF" . Some have taken a few hours and others have necessitated large amount of hours usually in the area of U/C or in one case having to cut off some of the wing covering to add strength to the wing fixing.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Careful Tomtom - you might get told off for asking that question - I did!

[J Moyler]

I have put down one week on average. This is because I tend to have only a couple of hours free each day. This is for balsa ARTF - If foam it only tends to be a couple of hours.

JM

[Bob Cotsford]

It seems to me that we have two trends - the 'sling them together and fly them to death' types and the 'we can rebuild it better' camp.

I think I've got a foot in each camp - some models (Wot4, Cougar 2000) I treat as sort of disposable commodities, to be put together quickly, flown hard and not grieved over. Others - usually scale models - get a lot more thought and care put into the assembly and are treated much more kindly. Can I have two votes, one for two days and one for two months?

 

Ref balsa v foam - one of the longest builds was a GWS Formosa II which for a simple foamy really took a lot of fettling to get airworthy.

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 29/03/2015 12:26:49

[Chuck Plains]

I had to click the one month button, just because it's the average time when divided by my ARFs.

 

Easy pigeon was delayed by my having no idea how to fix the rudder or elevator. (advertised as pre-installed ! )

3 months.

(and even then I never took the sticks as my NIMH pack dumped within a minute of he club chairman taking 'er up)

My first plane that I flew was the little Nine Eagles Sky Surfer. Yes, too small for a beginner to fly successfully. But it took longer to charge the 750mah battery than it did to build.

2hrs.

Max Thrust Riot. Got delayed by a misaligned tail, then by an ESC malfunction.

3 weeks

Bixler 2. As I was still learning about set-ups and wanted to get it right, I took my time.

1 week.

Phoenix 2000. Well, what to say? I even took my Bixler out a couple of times while I was messing with the P2K. My car broke down prevoiusly, and I was in no rush to fly it at the beginning. Also, getting used to a new computer radio (Optic 6) for the first time.

Several months.

Then itchy thumbs and gusting to 20+mph, she was destroyed in 3 mins.

 

But if I was to get another plug N play, I would guess at about 2 or 3 hours to assemble, tops.

Edited By Chuck Plains on 29/03/2015 12:31:53

[Andy Meade]

Posted by Stephen Jones on 27/03/2015 18:30:14:

Hmmm ,

I don't do um

Steve

Same!

[Peter Miller]

As someone who does not normally build ARTFs but has reviewed a few in the past. IT depends on the ARTF. Just as a scratch built model can take a few days to months.

In passing, I just assembled one for a club member. IT reminded me why I hate ARTFs. and that was a good one!!!!

[Reno Racer]

It can be just as quick to build a traditional kit, this Cambrian ME109 took a week ( maybe an hour or so on most nights), including glassing with PolyC and painting.

 

Edited By Reno Racer on 31/03/2015 10:06:07

Edited By Reno Racer on 31/03/2015 10:07:51

[eflightray]

Depends on the ARF model.

But for someone completely new to RC flying without any help, I would guess a ratio of about 100:1, build time to crash time. Maybe even 1000:1 if they pick totally the wrong model.

In roughly 60 years of model flying and building I have never logged the number of hours a build took.

Now at least with the digital cameras that log the date, I can at least get an idea of when I started a build, (as long as I remember to take photographs of the build  .

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Hope we are not looking at the time between purchasing and maiden - this would put me right at the back as I still didn't find the time to put a model together which I have purchased in late 2013....

Otherwise I suppose a week if there is not particular trouble. this allows to learn about all the parts and to use slow epoxy (12h) which gives you plenty of time to adjust...

And some of them I built more than once - then it goes faster - the little Seagull Edge 540 EP I built 3 times (tells you about my flying qualities...)

 

VA

Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 01/04/2015 13:55:37

[Chris Jones 7]

Typically I buy them one weekend and maiden the next. If it's a simple foamy I can put it together in an evening, my slick 360 has taken 3 days and I've just a prop and spinner to balance.

[Phil 9]

The delay for me is normally discovering I am missing some essential item having to wait for it to be deliverd (no alms near me)

Edited By Phil 9 on 02/04/2015 10:23:47

[Jim Stewart]

If I wasn't retired it would probably take me a week to build some models!

As it is, depending on complexity and quality, 1 to 3 days.

[Gordon Nicol]

I suppose it takes as long as it takes really e.g. I have a GWS epo harvard on a board that has been getting built for about 2 years I got a mini skywalker last week and maidened it on thursday (3 days) then after it flew and had the trims sorted out another evening to paint and sticker it....GWS Islander took about a month but I was scaling the wheels and waiting for spares to get here.....I do like to test fly them , (then usually repair them) then paint them