Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Don't forget to hit shift/refresh to clear any cached info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Posted by Martin Harris on 12/06/2015 12:56:54: I've just received the same and I'm certainly encouraged by the content. I haven't studied them yet but the requested feasibility study and financial details should now be available from the BMFA website. There is a proxy form included that may help clubs who can't send a representative due to travel problems etc. Edit: Hmm, despite the letter stating that the info is on the website, it's either not been posted yet or is not blindingly obvious enough for me to find it...I'll drop the BMFA a message requesting them to upload it or make it easier to spot but in the meantime, if anyone finds it perhaps a post to the forum and just as importantly their club members would be helpful? Edited By Martin Harris on 12/06/2015 13:12:35 I have also received the proxy form. This is all new to me in my first year as a club secretary. Does anyone know if there is any method for a club to make a postal vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Not from my reading of the notice - you'd need to find someone from another club who is attending - or a "Fellow" - who would agree to represent your vote by proxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Just got in from the field and found I have received the correspondence. A number of us did discuss some aspects of the NFC, from what has been said the report content will be made available during the presentation. On reflection, prior to any meeting I have attended in my work, the supporting and detailed information was always made available to those attending some time prior to the meeting. I am hoping that I will be able to attend, as with many aspects in life, life is not as straight forward as i want at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Here letter sent to Secretary's, best I can do sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 It's my Birthday 4th July...I wonder if Manny's made me a cake John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Thanks Andy John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Looks like time to make my mind up then I don't profess to be a expert on finances and the like and the numbers given mean little to me, so I have to trust the advice of others better qualified, I do have strong views on members having a say in things and as there's an EGM to seek approval from the members, I would be an hypocrite if I complained now. Looks like a club meeting and a vote now then, and select someone to go to EGM. My instinct is to back people who want to give things a try so that's what i'll do, I can't speak for the rest of the club though. John Can only one attend EGM from each club ? (travelling company) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 From an initial look it is clear a lot of good work has been done, but to my eyes there is still no clear vision as to what the centre is there to do, and there are a number of major issues in the financials. In particular there is no discussion of what happens if and when interest rates rise, no detailing of how the £9700/pa initial running costs were calculated (seems very low to me), and calculations on income generation seem plucked out of the air and very optimistic. Even more worryingly there is no risk analysis or "do nothing" option presented alongside the proposal to buy and run an NFC site. The motion proposed for the EGM is also very general - if passed the members are giving full council license to spend an unspecified amount on land purchase without any further review with the members, and there is no expiry date on this authority. They could spend a decade looking before spending the money without any further member consultation. Sorry, but I am a long way from sold if this is all the evidence in the "Yes" corner. Edited By MattyB on 13/06/2015 01:38:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 This looks perfectly sound to me. Interest rates vary with economic change and are likely to increase with a strengthening national position, in which things generally improve anyway. There are likely to be some savings from moving to new premises designed to current standards that will offset some of the new costs. I would like to see a more ambitious proposal for the museum and the inclusion of conference and education facilities. Investment income can be available for these activities. Also I know for a fact that the government is now at last realising that interest in aviation is a key driver in getting kids to pursue engineering and manufacturing careers, that is the reason that they are strongly supporting Bloodhound SSC. Also if we consider ourselves as part of the wider aviation movement, which we are, there could and probably will be support from Rolls Royce, BAe, Airbus, etc. Someone needs to be given the task of establishing the opportunities likely to be available. I see far more reason to support this than to criticise it and we should encourage BMFA by showing support, I think. The vision needs to be wider and I hope to see that. I think the risks to our future as active modellers are far greater by doing nothing than by getting on with this. The project needs to be fleshed out now, with clear objectives and time targets. Let BMFA get on with it under clear leadership. This needs to be done as far as I am concerned, let's see it happen. Edited By Colin Leighfield on 13/06/2015 05:58:10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 As I red it the proposal is now watered down to simply buying a plot of land with the possibility of building something at a later date given the cost of employing one person on minimum wage is just over £13,000 the sum of £9700 Annual Costs to me indicates that there would be virtually nothing there except a field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have been all for the NFC but not the way they have gone about it. I see that a lot of work has gone on. I agree with Colin, let's see if sponsorship or working partnerships with the aerospace industry is an option. Great public relations for them and the bmfa gets an extra source of funding, help, source of land, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The two clubs that I'm a member of will not be sending anyone on a four hundred mile round trip to the EGM because of cost and inconvenience - so that's over two hundred rank and file BMFA members effectively silenced. This is 2015 for goodness sake, why is not a postal/electronic vote from clubs not acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 13/06/2015 06:10:25: As I red it the proposal is now watered down to simply buying a plot of land with the possibility of building something at a later date given the cost of employing one person on minimum wage is just over £13,000 the sum of £9700 Annual Costs to me indicates that there would be virtually nothing there except a field. Indeed - and given that there will be little or nothing there that the average modeller doesn't already have at his local club, getting sufficient footfall to hit the predicted income numbers looks challenging. Posted by Cuban8 on 13/06/2015 07:52:46: The two clubs that I'm a member of will not be sending anyone on a four hundred mile round trip to the EGM because of cost and inconvenience - so that's over two hundred rank and file BMFA members effectively silenced. This is 2015 for goodness sake, why is not a postal/electronic vote from clubs not acceptable? For the same reason the bare minimum of time has been given between the release of the information and the EGM - the fewer clubs that attend from a long way from the proposed NFC, the better chance the BMFA leadership have of getting this approved. Edited By MattyB on 13/06/2015 10:24:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area 51 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Could not agree more chaps... too hasty and all this after being too slow!... Its a big decision they are asking the membership for input on.. and I realise the "mechanism" for doing such things is to devolve through the area reps to clubs and members that way, before drawing it all back up to the EGM for counting and ratification.. BUT As with all "great" plans they can become, or are, outdated (sic); why not change it now?. This is a monumentus decision for the society that represents the hobby I enjoy, therefore WHY NOT get a voting slip out to all members in the next news or ask them to go online and vote with their membership number and decision.. that way.. All will get a say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 All clubs should get an online or postal vote !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Posted by iqon on 13/06/2015 11:29:07: All clubs should get an online or postal vote !!! I agree! We are talking about a very large financial committment in a facility that only a small minority of BMFA members will ever use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Our club rep has already confirmed that he is willing to make the trip but we are a middling distance from Nottingham. It does seem more likely that the clubs most likely to be furthest from wherever the proposed centre will be are less likely to be able to attend. With a maximum of 5 proxy votes per attendee then even if their area representative gets to the EGM only a very limited number of these clubs will be able to get their votes proxied. This does seem to be unfair in principle on a national matter where the geographical location is a major factor - perhaps those council members monitoring or contributing to this thread could take this on board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area 51 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Posted by Martin Harris on 13/06/2015 19:26:01: With a maximum of 5 proxy votes per attendee then even if their area representative gets to the EGM only a very limited number of these clubs will be able to get their votes proxied. This does seem to be unfair in principle on a national matter where the geographical location is a major factor - perhaps those council members monitoring or contributing to this thread could take this on board? Middle of the flying / show / holiday season, short notice and a limit on proxy votes... This is all becoming a bit shambolic; not fit for purpose springs to mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hmm I asked quite a few pages ago is the way BMFA works fit for 2015....took a while for an answer I have to agree though it's a fair old trek for some, why not go the whole hog and have votes for individuals, seems the obvious thing to add. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 ...or, given that Laws Lawn Farm has been dropped, why not wait for the AGM in a few months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Posted by john stones 1 on 13/06/2015 20:11:38: Hmm I asked quite a few pages ago is the way BMFA works fit for 2015....took a while for an answer I have to agree though it's a fair old trek for some, why not go the whole hog and have votes for individuals, seems the obvious thing to add. I have just gone back and read the report again with a more detailed eye. It's clear to me now we can see the information that this has been a consultation in name only - the decision has been made by BMFA leadership that a NFC will be established, irrelevant of what the data suggests or the majority of rank and file members think. The debate about the establishment of such a facility has gone on for many years, probably more than a decade, yet despite no suitable site having been identified yet and grim predictions for the funding of phases 2 & 3 the members are being urged to support the endeavour. Not only that, members are getting the absolute minimum time to form and communicate their views and get them represented using the BMFAs cumbersome and bureaucratic governance structure. To me the promises of "no fee rises" have the air of the infamous Lib Dem tuition fee promise - they can be rowed back on swiftly as soon as interest rates rise or external investment for subsequent phases is not forthcoming ("We can't let this slip away now, for just £xx per member the future of the NFC a can be secured")... When it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Edited By MattyB on 13/06/2015 21:19:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Lomax Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Just to clarify on the voting and proxy processes. These are set in the constitution (Articles of Association). Although there is no scope for a postal vote, there is the facility for proxies. All you need to do is to find somebody who is attending and willing to carry your vote (although I think there is a limit on how many proxies anyone can carry). This is comparable with all major companies' including mutual building societies' general meetings where the shareholders can either attend in person or nominate a proxy. Postal votes for those companies are actually proxies that nominate the chairman or company secretary to carry the vote - we don't explicitly state that possibility, and in fact unless he is his own club's delegate the chairman doesn't get a vote, except for a casting vote in the event of a tie on a card vote, To be clear, to be constitutionally correct, your proxy does not nominate an individual to carry your vote (unless that individual is one of the 40 or so Fellows of the SMAE) - you must nominate the club that the nominated individual will be representing. A club does not have to nominate it's representative as their proxy, they just bring their membership card showing the club through which they are affiliated. (ie. ABC Model Fliers nominates DEF Flying Club, and a member of DEF then collects the voting cards for both). In terms of more than one person attending from a club (another question asked), that will not be a problem unless so many people turn up that they won't all fit in the room - however only one of you carries your club's vote, and is entitled to vote on either a how of hands or a card vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Thanks Keith..my question re how many can attend. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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