Erfolg Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Although RC sets were expensive, they were not alone. The simplest transistor radio in that era was extremely expensive, and were prone to frequency drift, not locking onto a specific frequency very effectually in most cases. The list of expensive items from the area of the 60s, relatively to this era would be very long. Also the progress that has been made with the functionality of most consumer items has increased dramatically with most if not all product sectors. RC equipment is not alone in benefiting in improved productivity and technical advances, which I approve. These advances have created issues for the model trade, as the numbers involved in modelling in general are much lower and just as importantly that 10% (or whatever the margins are) of a much lower cost item (in real terms), particularly now that the market place is more competitive, requires that the days of the fat cat retiler have probably gone. Being brought up when RPM (retail price maintenance) was the norm, it is apparent that the practise worked against the shopper. Even though recommended pricing and means of enforcing this price is still endemic in some parts of the economy. I much prefer the present situation. Edited By Erfolg on 18/08/2015 12:03:52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Carpenter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Not 1965 but 1972. Here is a pic of my Flight Link Duette which I ordered from Idris Francis at a show in 1972 at Kempton Park. Cost about £85 quid including switched frequencies. It was still working in 1995 to be installed in a Fast Electric boat but sadly has given up the ghost now. The handle was added so you could still hold the Tx when fielding a boat in the lake wearing waders. Super set and tiny after the Launch Link biscuit tin. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangster Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Another ex PO/BT type here. My first radio system was the RCM&E AM system scratch built on PC boards hand drawn with a Dalo pen it worked well and I sold it as a combo for £25 bearing in mind the cover price of the RCM&E was 45p that works out at £250. The two servos I had were kraft kps11 and they cost me £20 each in kit form. £200 for a servo ? Putting on flat cap I say and the youngsters of today would not believe you if you told em a servo cost a couple of weeks pay. I later built the RCM&E FM with full add on kits all bells and whistles way more features than you could get on any Futaba or Sanwa etc at the time old habits died hard and I carried on using servos that travelled in opposite directions even with computer radio. If I selected the wrong model memory I would never have reversed ele or ail. I still believe transmitter selected servo reverse was the biggest setback introduced by the rc industry. couple of comments on earlier posts. Percy, Skyleader supplied the SRC1 servos in the late 70s in reverse form and with a set containing 4 servos there were two of each the reverse ones had a black dock stuck on. I believe Fleet did the same as did Sanwa in the late 70s Cymas. Now I know who was to blame when my test gear came back from calibration, to be fair the service was good. I don't reckon a TO ever got up to 40k unless on inner London weighting. A TO (C3)is a very rare animal indeed these days think they trying to persuade them to leave and reduce the pay bill as fast as they can. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Posted by Phil Green on 18/08/2015 11:48:41: The pricing seems rather odd these days using the odd 26p, 44p, 66p, 96p points instead of today's ubiquitous 99p - I suppose the fractions of Pounds were far more significant then...and although you have two of the HS4Es, you would think that almost everybody would have stretched the extra £6.30 to get the HS6E transmitter and £29 worth of servos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Carpenter Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Thanks for that Percy. Don't think I need to get it going again .Would be happy to pass it on to an interested party for museum usage though. Will have an internet trawl though. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrman Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The original Horizon radio used Macgregor MR10 servo cases. I believe Horizon originally used to make the plastic components (servo cases, TX sticks, DEAC cases etc.) for Macgregor then moved into making their own complete sets. I used mine without problems for many years until I "discovered" JR on a business trip to Japan and haven't looked back since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Posted by jrman on 19/08/2015 09:34:26: ..... I used mine without problems for many years until I "discovered" JR on a business trip to Japan and haven't looked back since. Not even loose connections from those horrible hollow pin servo connectors? I think I still have my H8 case and sticks, it was home for both the RCM&E and RM published systems at different times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Posted by Colin Carpenter on 19/08/2015 09:05:11: Would be happy to pass it on to an interested party for museum usage though. Will have an internet trawl though. Colin I would love the Duette for our demo talks Colin. Its strictly non-profit, we do it for enjoyment and to spread the word about retro-R/C. Please can we chat via email, I'm [email protected] Many thanks Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dobson 2 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 G'day all Total newb here, sorry to rekindle an older thread, but I have just inherited a Horizons Systems RC kit, with several servos, and would love to get it functional again. Need to know the function of the sockets on the bottom, and what sort of voltage these outfits run at? Any advice very much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Chris , no replies to your questions so far - so I suggest starting a new thread with Horizon mentioned in the title which will bring it to the attention of those who know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Single channel and old radio Go to this forum and join. Post in 'proportional' in the 'radio control systems'. Ask for help and I am certain you will get help. Old radio's of all types, rebuilt radio's and new developments plus lots of electronic knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wagg Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Posted by Chris Dobson 2 on 04/07/2020 00:56:47: G'day all Total newb here, sorry to rekindle an older thread, but I have just inherited a Horizons Systems RC kit, with several servos, and would love to get it functional again. Need to know the function of the sockets on the bottom, and what sort of voltage these outfits run at? Any advice very much appreciated! Chris, can you remove the back off the case. The black socket on the right looks like a mini mains socket from years back. If so would be used for charging and therefore would expect to find a small transformer inside the case. The other socket could be for a buddy training but again need to see inside the Tx. If you do intend reviving the Horizon then probably have to replace any rechargeable cells in there and also check for "black wire" from the battery to the circuit. Voltage wise I would presume it would run of 8 rechargeable Ni-Cad cells = 9.6 volts nominal. Edited By John Wagg on 04/07/2020 14:06:20 Edited By John Wagg on 04/07/2020 14:18:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Barrie is spot on, the three pin is the mains in for the dual charger, the din socket supplies a trickle charge for a 4.8v Nicad pack. My red 8 channel set had 8 DEAC (nicad) cells iirc in two banks of four. Be warned, there was something odd about Horizon's PWM modulation as mine wouldn't work with anything but Horizon receivers. Does yours have the dual frequency switch on top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Barrie is spot on! See here **LINK** Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dobson 2 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Thanks for all the tips guys And Steve - that link is GOLD ! (BTW, 1965 quite appropriate, prob about the year when I flew my first model aircraft - a KK Champ powered by an AM10. Crashed on maiden flight of course lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stainforth Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 By 1965, my brother and I had built a dozen model aircraft. The twelfth was this much modified Mercury Matador, which I think was powered by an AM10 (or was it an ED Bee?). This was a sketch I made of it in 1965. Although it was just a single channel rudder-only model, we got it very well trimmed and could usually spot-land it more or less at our feet. But not always, once we lost it in a thermal, and it ended up going 11 miles (from Nomansland in Hertfordshire) before ending up in a tall poplar tree on the edge of a big estate. It was only because some painters, who were working on the big house with very tall ladders, saw it in the tree - and we had our name and address on it - that we got it back, with only minor scratches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Chris you are welcome. In 1965 I was flying control line with a second hand AM25, pocket money would not stretch to new and RC was just a dream. Some ten years later I spent many hours on Nomansland flying a KK Caprice towline glider which after many flights flew away never to be seen again. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Posted by Bob Cotsford on 04/07/2020 15:02:07: Be warned, there was something odd about Horizon's PWM modulation as mine wouldn't work with anything but Horizon receivers. There was indeed! Everyone else used a synchronising pulse that was longer than the longest channel pulse to keep the receiver in sync with the transmitter. Horizon chose to use a sync pulse "shorter than the shortest", rather than "longer than the longest". This gave it a higher frame rate than other systems, but at the cost of considerable incompatibility. Receivers were not interchangeable with other brands, but also there were issues with servo incompatibility as well. (Similar to the present issue of using "analogue" servos with a high frame rate system). It was also more difficult to detect the sync pulse - typically only 0.5mS, compared to a conventional 6 - 10mS. The final straw came when FM systems arrived, along with the requirement to operate at 10KHz channel spacing, rather than the previous 25KHz. It was difficult to fit such a short synchronising pulse into the required bandwidth! It was an interesting attempt to do something a bit different, and worked OK, but in the end the relative simplicity of conventional systems won out. -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 The other problem with them was the use of hollow pin plugs, similar to modern systems in principal except that the 'male' part was a naked split tube which rapidly loosened it's grip on the 'female' pin in the receiver. Most, if not all, of the issues that I had were down to these connectors becoming noisy, that or the soldered joints failing. Thank the Gods for progress! My 8 channel was essentially the 4 channel with extra half-shots on the tx motherboard, two sliders on the front panel and a toggle switch on the top either side of the case. I still have the case though the circuits were replaced with various magazine project systems over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Posted by Chris Dobson 2 on 04/07/2020 23:59:15: that link is GOLD ! Lots more where that came from Chris. See the Archive page of www.singlechannel.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dobson 2 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Posted by Phil Green on 06/07/2020 22:44:55: Posted by Chris Dobson 2 on 04/07/2020 23:59:15: that link is GOLD ! Lots more where that came from Chris. See the Archive page of www.singlechannel.co.uk Great! More lockdown fodder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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