AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 And finally, this is the result (that was almost in 2016...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 And now, the weight: I used the same parameter as KC: no hinges and no sanding, elev joiner in place. The result is 55 grams, 10 less than the solid one. This is quite and interesting result for me particularly. According to my calculations, each gram saved in the tail equals to (around) 2.3 grams in the nose, so these 10 grams are 23 in the nose and, funny enough, this is about the difference in weight between the OS40 used by Paul Miller, and the SC/ASP 32 that I'm planning to use, so in theory I should have no issue with the balance at all... The true, though, is that this is more a hypothetical assessment, and the balance will depend on many different factors. In addition, let's not forget that this is the weight before sanding. The next post will show the weight after sanding, and the different is much more significant than what I expected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yes, this morning to recover from the hangover, I decided to sand the tail group, and then I weighted it again. The weight now is 48 grams... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 And following with the building, this afternoon I decided to start with the wing. First I made the jigs, and then I traced (roughly) the ribs in the 3/32 and 1/8 sheets. With a bit of care, 9 ribs can fit in each 3/32 sheets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Then I used the "block" system. This is "before" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 ...And after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 And the result. Next is to work the particularities of each "group": R1, R2, R2B, R3... I made a big hole in the centre. This will be used to glue the paper tube for the aileron servos (I'll use two servos for ailerons) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 My intention was to keep working all the evening, but I| suffered a little accident while cutting some 1mm ply. I won't go to the gore details, I'll just say that my left thumb will look slimmer going forward... The good thing is that, according to my experience, bleeding while building a plane means that the plane will fly and will do it very well. This is the current aspect of my finger, after a visit to the hospital this evening. Thankfully is the left hand, so I can keep working on my projects... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yes, many people find that bleeding ona model makes them fly better but it must be accidental. Looks like you did a very impressive job on your thumb!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Thanks Peter, a good lamination indeed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 ... sheesh... very impressive build. ... except for the thumb story... (sorry, easy one). One question though: how are you making the holes for the 'paper tube'? With a sharpened tube when still in the 'block'? Or individually after removing the jigs? Thanks Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hi Chris, thanks.Regarding the holes, I made them while in the jig, but I'm a bit agricultural: I made a pilot hole with a 8mm drill, and then finished the job with a round file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Congratulations on the weight loss! Very elegant construction too. I must be honest and say my solid one did not include the wire joiner. So the difference in weight is a bit more. However for the amount of weight involved it is quite a bit more work. Leaving off the rear ply doublers might achieve the same..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Thanks KC I agree that the weight saving definitely doesn't compensate for two full afternoons / evenings of work (the solid one could be completed in 1 hour-ish...), and in fact I did not expect to save that "much"... I did it for the sake of building, and indeed I've enjoyed it. This is basically the only "big diversion" from the original design (I believe...), going forward I reckon that my Ballerina will be pretty similar to the one in the plan. That means that I won't be that prolific in details for other phases of the building Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza58 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hi AVC, Nice piece of carpentry. My first model had laminated tips and tail surfaces. It really wasn't that difficult and the tips weighed next to nothing and were very hard. I think it was called a Navigator. It flew first as a free flight model with a pee wee up front and later as a single channel RC model. Those laminations took plenty of knocks without damage. I remember soaking the individual 1/16 strips in hot water and then using a rolling pin on my mums pastry board to get the balsa to curve nicely without splitting on the tighter curves. I'm sorry to gloat at your thumb injury but I am glad I am not alone in leaving my DNA forever in a model. It seems to happen every time but hey ho. Regarding the paper tube, I am ever so slightly mystified as to its presence. I usually lay a length of cotton in the rib holes and feed either the servo leads through it or as shown with Ballerina, a bell crank push rod. This would only be necessary in a pre covered wing such as an ARTF. In this instance, surely we would do all of this before we cover the model...? This is not a criticism, I just cant see the advantage. Please help me out here...? I have started with the fuselage on mine, and have not really paid much attention to the wing other than the centre section which I will simplify as I intend to put a servo in each wing half. I am enjoying the build thread and wish you all the best with it. I am learning a few new dodges too on other builds which is all to the good. Gazza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The real advantage of using the paper tube conduit comes if you ever need to change out a faulty extension, or if you've ever had the loose end drop back into the wing you will already know how handy it is! I actually do own some models that have outlived the original electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza58 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 ok Bob I can see an advantage there. Normally when changing a servo lead I would just plug the new one into the old one and pull it through but I can see the virtue in not having to negotiate each rib hole. This is a bit like a Rolls Royce having two golf tees in the glove box...... Gazza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hi Gazza, thanks for your comments.As Bob says, the advantage of the paper tube comes to light when \ if you need to replace a faulty servo. I learnt this the hard way years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 It is much eaier to cover a wing if there are no servos sticking out.....so paper tubes are essential in my opinion. Peter's method of winding the paper tightly around a dowel or pencil and letting it unwind once inside the holes is the easy way to install them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I di not install my wing servos until the model has been covered.. Also it is possible to removed and refit the servos. The big benifit comes when fitting a total of four servos, two aileron and two flap. Trust me, having the tubes means that I know from the start that I will be able to install everything easiy. One of the great lessons that I learned when working on full size aircraft. Anything that makes things a bit easier and gives better access is essential. This is why I insist that I can get at everything, usually very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Nice work so far AVC. Your build up tail has all wood fiber in the correct direction and will be stronger. It addition it will never warp, which a solid one may do. With regard to paper tubes: Not many ARF do have them, but usually a piece of string is "build in". One pulls the aileron extension lead with the string. And yes, I have missed the string sometimes but a piece of wire with a small 180 bend has always done the job for me so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Nice work AVC Yeap I'm afraid that if you haven't bled on them then their not "complete"! BEB PS Hope your thumb is better soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Hi there I have no time to build during the week, now that Xmas is over, so I spend the time thinking on what I will do during the next weekend. Last night, I though that I would make a build up fuselage with strips and crossbraces, and I even drafted something. I did the same with a scratch build of a precedent turbulent, and the result was very nice and very light. But then I though that the original design is quite light. I have saved some grams with the tail, and maybe I would end with a very (too) light model for the size, which would result affected by every single tiny gust. Also this solution could give me some headaches to achieve the CoG. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Hi AVC If you look here you will see a picture posted by Percy Verence of a similar model, the Ruhig Tigre. This has a built up fuselage from the wing TE backwards. It is also common in the Flair models. Having built both, I think it's swings and roundabouts. Maybe one of the biggest plus points for built up is that it can be more satisfying to build? You could always do the sheeted method then make some cut outs but I doubt it's necessary. Will be interesting to see what more informed people advise. Watching the build with interest, keep up the good work! Edited By Masher on 06/01/2016 11:04:41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I am sure the fuselage does not need further lightening. Even before BEB did his calculations I did a lash up of my part built uncovered fuselage with servos, tail parts etc and discovered that the CG was OK with just the motor and no Lipo! So the early stage of construction suggests BEB 's calculations are relevant. Of course you never know what CG position is going to turn out until every last bit of gear is fitted but it's looking like the Lipo will need to go partly behind F2 with a standard fuselage construction including the tail end ply doublers. But things like the total weight of tailwheel, metal clevis, horns all at the very tail end will add up and could change things. So it's necessary to have options where the Lipo can be positioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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