2016 RCM&E Autumn Special- Free Plan Modellers Choice

[Erfolg]

It just goes to show. One of the very few models that i would never build is a Provost. Yet I could well be attracted to the Jet provost. Yep, you can never tell, one persons meat is anothers poison.

I do note that there is a heavy bias towards UK aircraft. I guess this national bias is true with most nations. Although some of our ex-colonies, now fully independent, with what appears to be a strong self identify, specifically Australia and New Zealand, do seem to favour UK aircraft. Perhaps some may have some residual emotional ties with the UK, or were some models built in their countries.

All of which i find of interest, intellectually, more importantly does the TN business model build mostly on the UK market, recognising that there will be some overseas sales. There is another potential business model, which builds on the world wide sales of RCM&E, to include other countries aircraft. Although rarely travelling to the USA, I could not but notice that RCM, had disappeared from their shelves years ago and that MAN could not be found for love or money.

Could this be another avenue for good sales, as sales are the fuel of business? Perhaps some of their more interesting aircraft which are incredibly varied, even when the obvious Mustangs, Thunderbolts et al are dismissed. From the Curtiss CR-3,Condor Cessna CR, Travel Air Mystery Racer, various Boeings etc. There are just to many exceptionally good looking aircraft to mention, many potentially making excellent models. The big question though, would they sell better than most UK aircraft models (ignoring the Spitfire and Hurricane)?

Edited By Erfolg on 02/02/2016 13:36:09

[Swissflyer]

Posted by Erfolg on 26/01/2016 15:47:27:

As for the DH Rapide a total waste of time, wings far to pointed, then there is the issue of rigging, if a thin aerofoil section were to be used. Beautiful to look at.

Hey Erfolg, washout & low wing loading can manage tip stalls.

**LINK**

Once the current Stearman PT17 is finished, my Dumas Rapide is next.
If its got two wings, let’s have two engines as well and put one on Tony’s list for 2017

[Erfolg]

SwissFlyer

A lot of wash out and a low wing loading can apparently avoid tip stalling when flying straight and level in particular.

I have a PZ Stinson Reliant, which has a fair bit of washout, not as pointy wing as the DH model. However it is OK just flying about. What it cannot do is fly inverted, without a vicious snap tip stall, a bit like a tank slapper on a motor cycle.

OK the real aircraft did non of the things that many of us expect a model to do. But we (or may be just me) get bored just doing circuits.

I personally do not want a model which has the rigging issues of the models of the DH type. Give me a solid flying model every time, that is easy to assemble. I am past messing for hours to fly for ten minutes. Just not worth it.

For me, I certainly do not want a model, where the wings are so thin and liable to warping, that either time consuming rigging is required or a wing press is required.

I like practical, easy flying models. But that is just me.

Edited By Erfolg on 02/02/2016 22:46:58

[Steve Adams]

Hi Erf,

Your right about the bias towards British aircraft, however We did make some good planes! In fairness maybe the pick a plane for each year if one was done could be conducted on us forum's, nz,aus etc so a separate country each year gets its own choice published in RCM@E ie USA modellers choose Douglas Skyraider for the 2017 special, NZ modellers choose P-750 XSTOL(Pacific Aerospace ) 2018 special, AUS modellers choose a DE Havilland DHA-3 MK 3A Drover 2019 special etc although this may never happen this would be the most unbiased way I think. I myself can be bias towards siding with British Aircraft (love your list Tony btw!) but I do like other aircraft as well from other countries. Some Multi National planes are good for problem solving in the model aspect I would think ie EE Canberra/Martin B57,HS Harrier /MD AV8,F35 Lightning 2(JSF) etc. I definitely believe that the 2016 autumn special will be the most different and hotly contested/debated magazine yet, and if that's how sales can be defined these days it'll be a sellout!

[Tony Nijhuis]

Ok guys, well give it another week or so as we seem to have reached a plateau of new suggestions.....

Might be an ideal if we can move the thread to a prominent position in the forum so we can sweep up any users who don't normally stray into the TN thread.

[bouncebounce crunch]

[bouncebounce crunch]

Vans RV7

[bouncebounce crunch]

Like the Provost, this is a Winjeel.

[Colin Leighfield]

Good one BBC! They keep a Winjeel flying at the Point Cook RAAF museum in Australia. I was there in 2009 and saw a retired F111 Aardvark pilot do a brilliant aerobatic display in it. We talked afterwards about a number of things including the similarity between this and the Provost. He shared the view that in those days there was a very close relationship between the British and Australian aviation industries, so it was no surprise.

A few days later I stopped outside Sale RAAF, which is an active station and I think is home to the Roulettes aerobatic team, to photograph another Winjeel which is the gate guardian. I was apprehended by a jobsworth (civilian)! gate attendant for taking photographs on a military site! It just shows that stuffed up twerps exist everywhere you go, they're not unique to the UK. (He was probably a descendant).

[bouncebounce crunch]

Thanks Colin

I fully agree with the close ties and breeding similarity, I believe 2 years seperate the two aircraft , Provost first.

As for taking photos from outside Commonwealth military bases in Australia, yes small A4 size signs attachet to wire mesh fencing still today, warn of penalties, even if the airport is part civilian like Williamtown, Nsw Australia.

[bouncebounce crunch]

Another of a Winjeel from Luskintyre NSW Australia. Miss Adventure is behind A85-426, you can just see a wheel from her landing gear.

Edited By bouncebounce crunch on 03/02/2016 09:22:44

[Martyn K]

Another suggestion from me. I am not a warbird fan but how about a Stuka? Fixed U/C and the wing could be in 3 pieces (for easy storage

Martyn

[Erfolg]

I could easily build a Canberra/B57 as suggested.

A bit of a change from the predictable suggestions, or already done to death models, yet I suspect generate quite a few models and hence business.

You may wonder why i should be concerned with business. It is being pragmatic, it keeps the UK modelling business going. At a individual level making some money keeps many small business modellers going and continue to work in all our interests.

Yes a Canberra would tick many boxes, at least for me.

[kc]

All sorts of wonderful prototypes have been suggested but the reality ( probably ) is that whatever design will sell the most RCME's will be chosen!

It seems to me that a clipped wing Piper Cub specially designed for electric might prove very popular.

[David Ovenden]

Re: the Percival Provost. Black Horse are just bringing one out. Now listed on their website.

**LINK**

Might this reduce the number of models built if this was Tony's free plan?

Edited By David Ovenden on 08/02/2016 21:33:23

[Colin Leighfield]

Some co-incidence. Perhaps BH is following this thread!

[David perry 1]

Beech Staggerwing

[kevin b]

Curious, as the world wide demand is unlikely to be high due to the low number of originals being exported. Or maybe the production runs don't need to be very large to make it profitable these days.( It isn't going to sell hundreds over here either, I wouldn't have thought .

Well one less to consider anyway ! I'm sure Mr N will not be keeping us in suspense for much longer. He has a lot of drawing and balsa bashing to do and tempus fugit as they say.

[Steve Adams]

I definitely believe the autumn 2016 free plan will end up being a slight deviation from the normal warbirds/EDF jets etc. I'm sure the model chosen will be well thought out both in build,scale detail as well as being a popular choice as far as how much it's liked by the wider audience, which will naturally go hand in hand with commercial viability. Will be interesting to see what choice is finally settled on either by TN himself or the wider community /both!

I love Tonys to do list as well with the Concorde, Vickers Valiant, H.P Victor,H.S Harrier etc....Just hope I can find a way to get rich quick so I can retire early to build and fly em!

The Piston Provost is a great plane,and TN could do it fantastic justice if he did model it,and yes I'd be rushing out to buy an extra copy of the mag. However the only doubt with The P.P is the commercial viability as previously mentioned......It's a really shame we can't have a twin or EDF this time round,but then that would open more cans of worms! Oh well what will be will be. Now if a sporty bipe like a Pitts Special or the P2 Prometheus were in the mentions for bipes that would get me drooling over a double winger defo mmmm yummy.......

We eagerly await TNs ultimate decision

Cheers

Steve 

Edited By Steve Adams on 09/02/2016 00:33:18

[Fredrum]

A lot of great prototypes here that I hadn't considered.

My wish list included the DH88 Comet and the T33 Shooting Star, but as EDF's and multis are not likely to get up, my three are:

Tiger Moth (one of the most beautiful designs of all time)

JU87 Stuka (severe, but beautiful in it's own way)

Luton Minor (relatively simple design and easy to fly)

[Daithi O Buitigh]

I can go with the Provost - severely under-modelled but regarding 'Moths' there are dozens of Tiger plans, kits and so on, but any of these would be different.

Fox Moth, Puss Moth, Moth Minor, Leopard Moth, Hawk Moth or one of the three DH60 variants with the Gipsy, Cirrus, Genet or Major engines (same airframe but different engine/nose) but that would be for some future date

[Bob Cotsford]

Posted by David Ovenden on 08/02/2016 21:27:27:

Re: the Percival Provost. Black Horse are just bringing one out. Now listed on their website.

**LINK**

Might this reduce the number of models built if this was Tony's free plan?

Edited By David Ovenden on 08/02/2016 21:33:23

that's a nice size at 65" for a 60, but would the availability of any prototype in ARTF form really influence the people who choose to build from a plan or kit? How many ARTF Spitfire variants are there, but I bet tony's Spitfire designs still got plenty of takers.

[IanN]

Posted by Bob Cotsford on 09/02/2016 10:34:25:

Posted by David Ovenden on 08/02/2016 21:27:27:

Re: the Percival Provost. Black Horse are just bringing one out. Now listed on their website.

**LINK**

Might this reduce the number of models built if this was Tony's free plan?

Edited By David Ovenden on 08/02/2016 21:33:23

that's a nice size at 65" for a 60, but would the availability of any prototype in ARTF form really influence the people who choose to build from a plan or kit? How many ARTF Spitfire variants are there, but I bet tony's Spitfire designs still got plenty of takers.

+1 for what Bob said

[Erfolg]

The decision is most obviously a TN decision, but I am very surprised that any one has kitted the Provost. I can imagine the kits being discounted to shift them.

It must be a very difficult decision to make on commercial basis, then you have to build whtever the decision.

As Kevin has suggested I would not be surprised if the decision has been made.

Although I see the Provost as a non starter. For a whole variety of reasons. Some of the suggestions, do seem to have legs, both for the home market and the international markets. The Luton Minor, falls nicely into the same general category as the Piper Cub, and the Taylor Craft, Belanca Citabria, but is a good looking aircraft. In a similar vein, the Beechcraft Staggerwing or Stinson SRE are also good lookiing biplanes, with the virtue of being good flyers and for biplanes easy to build.

I am increasingly attracted to civilian light type aircraft, which both fly well and look good. Another potential advantage, small commercial aircraft have more than half an eye on the ease of construction. All of which can help greatly for the modeller.

I do like a lot of the suggestions made by others.

Although there is one military aircraft that should fly well, have good potential for sales. Could even build well with the right design and that is the Douglas A4 Skyhawk.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

wrong thread ...oops

Edited By john stones 1 on 09/02/2016 13:40:39