Training Log Book

[Cliff 1959]

Does any club use a 'log book' system for trainee pilots working towards their BMFA A cert?

[Phil 9]

Not that I ​have seen. I am nor sure what purpose it would serve either. There is no minimum time requirement. Assessing progress is not difficult at this level

[gangster]

What to fly a toy aeroplane? As step too far methinks

[..]

Not as daft & over complicated as some think , one of my clubs talked about it as an aid to us instructors allowing us a brief overview on the progression of a pupil who has been training with other instructors.

[Phil 9]

Posted by Justin K. on 13/12/2016 17:28:27:

Not as daft & over complicated as some think , one of my clubs talked about it as an aid to us instructors allowing us a brief overview on the progression of a pupil who has been training with other instructors.

did they implement it? Even simple records are only worth while if they are in a standard format, assessed to the same criteria and are kept up to date.

[Mike T]

As an examiner I should know this, but I think the BMFA does produce such a thing. I'm sure one came in the 'welcome pack' when I got my 'E' cert...

[Denis Watkins]

A toy is typically a model or miniature replica of something. And is often misrepresented, as it is often difficult to replicate " full size" though this is often achieved spectacularly.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Yep BMFA do them, i have a few i use for stuff, Pilots log books ? fine if it helps, but do BMFA need to take the time n expense to produce them ? answers No for me a little notebook is only pennies.

John

[Engine Doctor]

We tried having "Training Log Books " at our club years ago so that any instructor could pick up from the last lesson the student had. It proved a complete waste of time and scrapped after one year due to books being left at home ,lost and many other excuses .If the student wants to keep their own record then fine ,its their responsibility. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Similar experience - we tried a "logbook" system briefly they just weren't used by instructors or students to any degree and over the years, the number of new pilots has dropped and most trainees are well known to the regular attenders. In the main, we tend to allocate a student to an instructor and there's little problem on the odd occasion that we fly with another person's student. In addition, we normally arrange a substitute (with a verbal handover) if an instructor knows he'll miss a session.

Really, the A is a simple set of requirements and much of the experience needed to operate safely is absorbed by observation even when not being taught formally so logging seems an unnecessary complication.

[Keith Simmons]

I did have a log book when I did gliding years ago. Even then it is pointless if you don't fly often as you get rusty quickly and make silly mistakes. This is all a hobby and it's best to gain experience and A, B & C certificates is a guide to your ability, and even then, keep flying to remain current.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

See Page 64 of "A Flying Start"

**LINK**

[Ian Jones]

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 15/12/2016 13:45:09:

See Page 64 of "A Flying Start"

**LINK**

Thanks Andy S.

Under used in my opinion

[Cliff 1959]

Thanks everyone, we'll take your views onboard at our next meeting, but we need to do something else to try and encourage those members who seem reluctant to train to a mimimum standard.

Thanks Andy that's just what I was looking for.

[Robin Colbourne]

Posted by Engine Doctor on 13/12/2016 18:01:40:

We tried having "Training Log Books " at our club years ago so that any instructor could pick up from the last lesson the student had. It proved a complete waste of time and scrapped after one year due to books being left at home ,lost and many other excuses .If the student wants to keep their own record then fine ,its their responsibility.Â

With modern phones offering internet access from large parts of the country, there is no reason these days why the logbook has to be on paper. The likelihood is that on almost any visit, either the pupil or instructor will have a mobile phone with them. Password protected logbooks would allow them to be stored on a club site and a copy saved as a pdf to avoid improper editing.

If the pupil is learning on his or her own model, the logbook can also be used to remind the pupil of maintenance and modifications that are required before the next flying session

[ChrisB]

I think the idea is good and perhaps 15+ years ago it would have worked very well. I'm not sure that these days a log-book would be welcomed by many.

It sort of goes back to the issue of new members joining clubs. People these days don't want commitment when it comes to their hobbies. They want complete freedom to come and go as they please and the mere thought of any kind of training log would send many running for the hills.

A prime example is a chap a taught to fly about 3 years ago. He was fairly competent and went solo on an irvine tutor in 10-15 flights. He drove a saloon car, so the model was squeezed in as best it could be. Over time he drifted away and several months later I bumped into him leaving the field. He now had a big estate car, what I call a modellers car. I asked him if he'd changed his car so he could get bigger models in and he laughed and looked funny at me and said "no, why would I do that for a toy plane, I'm restoring a classic car and need to transport parts etc" He never renewed and that was the last we saw of him.

Clearly it showed his level of commitment to the hobby and unfortunately he's not on his own. There are many people in clubs these days for whom flying is a secondary and subservient pastime, perhaps even more than years ago, especially as there are so many things to do, places to go and disposable incomes to spend and the fact that ARTF out of the box are so cheap and easy to assemble and fly, that the time, money and investment required isn't such that people feel they owe anything to the hobby.

Good idea but I suspect many would feel overwhelmed or put off.

Cheers

CB

[..]

Posted by Cliff 1959 on 15/12/2016 18:06:45:

Thanks everyone, we'll take your views onboard at our next meeting, but we need to do something else to try and encourage those members who seem reluctant to train to a mimimum standard.

Thanks Andy that's just what I was looking for.

Cliff , if they are reluctant to train to a minimum standard then don't let them fly it's as simple as that. One of the clubs I fly at doesn't insist on a BMFA A cert to fly (just an ok by the committee) and it can be a fraught time on the flight line while they "perform".

We have witnessed several incidents mostly involving 3 channel lumbering vintage designs operated by members who just shouldn't be allowed to fly on tier own. So if they wont train dont let them fly is the best policy in my book.

[Jon H]

I am with Justin on this one.

At my club i am responsible for most of the training and while we do not insist on an A (we have our own test) the standard we expect is probably higher than would be needed to pass an A at most places with lengthy syllabus of things taught to beginners. These include all the usual stuff, but basic loops and rolls, crosswind landings and a section entitled 'The Rudder' are all included. The idea is to teach more than the minimum so they dont come a cropper as soon as they get something more advanced.

We are also quite firm with students putting the responsibility for arranging training in their hands. I wont go beating the trees looking for them so i can try and coax them up the field for an hour. If they wont put in the hours it takes to learn then that is their problem, not mine. All training is pre booked (a few hours notice is sufficient) to prevent no show's from either party and all in all the system is working quite well.

It might sound harsh 'ignoring' some of our students, but they know what is expected (it is fully explained when they join). what we have found is that we now have far less time wasted on guys who are not interested and those who are dead keen get all the help in the world, progress faster and are taught to a higher standard.

We did toy with the idea of the logbook but it has fallen by the wayside somewhat as there was disagreement on its format and as i do most of the training anyway its not really important at the moment.