BMFA Buckminster opens Monday 8th May.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

BMFA Buckminster opens at 9am on Monday 8th May for model aircraft flying.

There is a site status box where you can see what activities are taking place on the current and coming days on the National Centre website at **LINK**

Current weather conditions and upcoming weather forecast are also shown along with lots of other information.

Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday next week have been set aside for general RC sport flying and control line as a primary activity free flight as a secondary activity.

If you want to come along and fly, or just take a look around all you need to do is turn up, park in the stoned area and call in at reception on arrival.

Currently a temporary runway is in use until the new main runway is ready.

Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 05/05/2017 11:22:32

[extra slim]

Thats very positive news Andy. I hope the offer is taken up, and it builds momentum. Fingers crossed for the people who have invested time and effort in getting this off the ground..

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Address, GPS Co-ordinates and directions can be found at **LINK**

I will be on site Tuesday and Wednesday next week so come along and say hello and take a guided tour of the facilities, don't forget to bring a model for a fly. Day pass for flying is £6.

Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 05/05/2017 11:39:10

[Charles Smitheman]

Well done what a remarkable achievement.

Now lets see: Old Warden on Sunday, to break the journey, Buckminster on Monday, and 3 hours drive home! Very tempting.

[MattyB]

Posted by Charles Smitheman on 05/05/2017 12:57:27:

Well done what a remarkable achievement.

It is commendable the BMFA have got this far, but let's not kid ourselves - compared to what needs to happen next, getting to this stage was still the easy bit. A truly remarkable achievement will be if they can raise the funding needed to develop the site in line with the later phases of the plan without requesting additional money from members.

That was the stated aim at the EGM and the AGM that followed it, but to date there has been no communication on the multi-million pound fund raising initiative that will be needed to make this happen. I wish them luck, but I remain highly sceptical that sufficient funding can be generated to develop this from what is essentially a nice club flying field into the vision shared with members at the EGM and on the website.

[John F]

You said this, Matty, with regards to the initial efforts too! Can we not turn it into yet another MattyB opposition thread with yet more predictions of doom and gloom?

Many people are perfectly happy with what they are doing and are quite happy to support this.

Edited By John F on 05/05/2017 15:07:19

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

And many others remain concerned about the future of this venture, unconvinced that this is as been openly debated as financially viable option and disappointed at the undemocratic way it was manipulated and pushed through.

In my opinion Matty is simply, and quite legitimately, voicing the concerns of that group.

Unquestioning blind faith and belief is perhaps not the best basis for support?

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 05/05/2017 15:52:29

[MattyB]

Posted by John F on 05/05/2017 15:06:01:

You said this, Matty, with regards to the initial efforts too! Can we not turn it into yet another MattyB opposition thread with yet more predictions of doom and gloom?

Many people are perfectly happy with what they are doing and are quite happy to support this.

Alternative viewpoint... Can we not turn it into yet another blind optimism thread with yet more predictions of a green and pleasant land despite the fact there is no funding plan beyond the use of £335k of reserves (60% of the Dev fund) to complete phase 1?

Many people are uncertain about the financials and uncomfortable with how the project was given the green light. They are unlikely to support the significant fund raising efforts needed until they see a clear plan for phase 2 and beyond from the BMFA showing how the money will be raised to turn it into a true NFC.

Seriously, last time I looked this is a free country. If you believe my post is against the CoC, please go ahead and report it. If not, leave it to the moderators.

Edited By MattyB on 05/05/2017 16:36:39

[Phil 9]

Is it intended t​hat this national center will become a new and permenant home for the nationals

[MattyB]

Nobody at the BMFA has stated that to my knowledge Phil. It is nowhere near big enough to run the power Nationals in their current format, but if they were prepared to split up the disciplines over a number of w/es it could be made to work if Barkston was unavailable. Would it attract the same audience if that was the case though?

[Phil 9]

Posted by MattyB on 05/05/2017 19:07:29:

Nobody at the BMFA has stated that to my knowledge Phil. It is nowhere near big enough to run the power Nationals in their current format, but if they were prepared to split up the disciplines over a number of w/es it could be made to work if Barkston was unavailable. Would it attract the same audience if that was the case though?

sounds like it will be a good facility if you live near to it but will have limited appeal to anyone else

[Stuart Z]

sounds like it will be a good facility if you live near to it but will have limited appeal to anyone else

3 hours each way for me so not a lot of flying time.

S

[ken anderson.]

afraid its too far from ne...1 land also.... good luck to all concerned.i think we're all entitled to our own opinions..more so if we are members of the BMFA and contribute through our subs etc.....will be a funny old forum if we can only say what others want to hear and nothing else.....

ken Anderson...ne...1...... in a far away place(too far for to go to the NC) dept.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

My club costs me in the region of 50p a flying day based on a couple of visits a week so the idea of a 3 hour (on a good day) round trip to pay £6 to fly from the NFC doesn't immediately enthuse me. I suspect that there needs to be more of an event than simple use of a flying site to attract meaningful numbers for anything more than a visit out of curiosity.

[MattyB]

Posted by Steve J on 06/05/2017 09:28:09:

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 05/05/2017 11:37:52:

Day pass for flying is £6.

Has the BMFA published an estimate for the annual running costs of the NFC? I am curious as to how many £6 day passes it would take to cover it.

Steve

No, but based on the limited figures they have released it is possible to make an estimate. Some rough calculations I posted in the main NFC thread...

• The BMFA are investing £335k within the first four year term of the lease (figures in this presentation). Lease costs are £18k in year 1, £27.4k year 2 onwards.
• You can probably add at least another £20-25k per annum to that for grass cutting, security, amenity charges etc (that is the only key figure they have missed out of their deck), so to stand still the project will have to generate revenues of ~£45-50k per annum at a minimum to be self funding. More than that will be needed if the proposed additional facilities are to be added.

Edited By MattyB on 06/05/2017 13:47:19

[Erfolg]

It certainly is the era of disparaging those who have temerity to air a view that is not on message. There is nothing so intolerant of others views than a Liberal, not hearing what corresponds to their view.

It does seem that using MattyBs figures, obtained via the BMFA own figures, requires 23 paying visitors a day. Being realistic, assuming that mid weeks attract far fewer, that some days will not be available due weather, the numbers drop to a much more conservative value, which typically could be into 30-40s.

I guess it is the big events which will be the deciding factor. Can they generate the approx. 25 per day average.

Just a quick thought, say 10 big events a year, with a 100 paying attendees, that would genrate £6000. 

Edited By Erfolg on 06/05/2017 16:48:04

[ken anderson.]

erfolg---- in the times we live in-I think that depending solely on model aircraft events wont deliver much income really......they probably will have to diversify..... bearing in mind its going to be run as a business.....the visiting model flyers may well become an aside....

ken Anderson...ne....1..... diversify(what ever that mean's) dept.

[Geoff Jackson]

Too far for me Im afraid although I will be at the Nats this year, health holding up. I try and visit local fly ins, Delyn, Greenacres, Rhyl etc but Buckminster for a day out - no way.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Said my piece so i shall keep quiet, hope the weathers good and those going have a good day.

John

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

I'm told it's a bit chilly and breezy at BMFA Buckminster today, however some model flyers are already on site enjoying some fliyng. I will be onsite Tuesday and Wednesday this week so feel free to come along and say hello and have a bit of a look round.

[Devcon1]

Not a negative because I do support the venture but this photo did make me smile.

Reminds me of the old "spot the ball"

Or did I miss it?

[Keith Lomax]

Posted by Steve J on 06/05/2017 09:28:09:

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 05/05/2017 11:37:52:

Day pass for flying is £6.

Has the BMFA published an estimate for the annual running costs of the NFC? I am curious as to how many £6 day passes it would take to cover it.

Steve

Yes - there were some figures presented at the AGM - these are based on estimates for usage and costs. This is still very much a work in progress as we will learn from experience.

As well as the £6 per day usage, the main income is from either flightlines, or the whole flying area, being rented out for contests - most of the competitive disciplines have been suffering for years due to lack of available sites. (This is why people are advised to check the calendar on the National Centre website before planning a visit.)

Broadly speaking, usage of the site is hoped to cover the running costs. The rental for a few years will mostly be covered by the ongoing generous sponsorship from the insurance brokers. Future phases of development are dependant on money from other sources - donations / grants / sponsorship and any surpluses from ongoing operation.

Grants is an interesting area - when we have previously made enquiries, we were told that these mainly work on match funding and now that we have something to show this is now in a position to be further investigated.

[MattyB]

Posted by Keith Lomax on 10/05/2017 15:15:30:

Posted by Steve J on 06/05/2017 09:28:09:

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 05/05/2017 11:37:52:

Day pass for flying is £6.

Has the BMFA published an estimate for the annual running costs of the NFC? I am curious as to how many £6 day passes it would take to cover it.

Steve

Yes - there were some figures presented at the AGM - these are based on estimates for usage and costs. This is still very much a work in progress as we will learn from experience.

These are the materials on the NFC website that the BMFA presented at the AGM (presentation dated Nov 2016). There do not appear to be any estimates for usage or opex costs (other than rent); the main figures are all the upfront investments (capex) for phase 1. Missing are security, grass cutting, utility bills, any additional HR costs etc. Only broad brush statements on opex are provided ("Income from the centre is derived from multiple sources - revenue from model flying and non-model flying activity, sponsorship and donations" etc.) - no figures are provided for the sponsorship from insurers for instance.

Were additional opex figures presented that did not make it into the presentation published online? If yes that should be corrected asap for reasons of transparency. If no then your statement that the estimated annual running costs for the NFC have been shared with the membership does not really appear to be correct.

Edited By MattyB on 10/05/2017 16:43:49

[MattyB]

Posted by Keith Lomax on 10/05/2017 15:15:30:

Grants is an interesting area - when we have previously made enquiries, we were told that these mainly work on match funding and now that we have something to show this is now in a position to be further investigated.

Unfortunately I no longer have a copy of the report on grant funding the BMFA published prior to the EGM. From memory whilst it did indicate that match funding was the predominant mechanism these days, it also stated grant funding of any kind was extremely hard to come by from the EU or lottery unless economic development (i.e. jobs and GDP increase) could be shown. Perhaps this report could also be republished on the website now the lease has been signed and any confidentiality concerns are behind us.

Edited By MattyB on 10/05/2017 16:24:06