Erfolg Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I find Trevor's contention somewhat questionable. Generally electric motors are 70-80% efficient. A Diesel engine is in the region of +55% efficient, some are now claiming similar efficiencies close to electric motors when run as a hybrid. In the case of present situation, a Power station generates electricity with efficiencies of 30-40% for steam Turbine. This ignores the generator losses. Distribution lossless are on top. So lets say all the electricity comes from the renewable, you would argue that it is only the distribution lossless need to be considered. Yet at present Wind Turbines consume significant quantities of energy in construction and the necessary infra structure and of course have finite life. I am reminded that boiling a kettle be it either by gas or electricity requires pretty much the same amount of energy. Yet dependent on tariffs, a cuppa, using electricity costs in region of 4 times that of gas. What it really does show that generation and distribution of electricity costs a lot. That nearer you can get to using energy closer to the primary source, the higher is the overall efficiency. That the cost of IC fuel is mostly a range of high taxes. The carbon foot print of gas versus electricity production is interesting, as at present, electricity has a greater foot print than gas. Yet listening to many activists, you would not think it. Until some non biased assessments are made, by those who do not have an axe to grind, or safe hands etc. I have a gut feeling that a lot is smoke and mirrors. You may believe that all scientists can be relied on as " honest brockers", yet as i found out, when budgets have to be fought for and justified (rather than just handed out), they are the same as everyone else, they want to secure their job, section and department. Often promotion depends on getting grants etc. Think Hitch Hikers Guide and Deep Thought.and why the computer that would answer the ultimate question is built, to keep Loonsuawl in work, and you understand many scientists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Pretty damning verdict on scientists and experts there, because they have personal interest, they can't be relied on for a true opinion. Business and politicians are the font of all knowledge though. The Earth is Flat n the Sun revolves around us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 As they say, you cannot trust anyone. Well not absolutely. Just take the issue of we should eat less meat, as 30% of all Co2 emissions came from animals, Yet even that is a temporary fix, as the world human population is increasing dramatically. Do we then stop eating any meat? As the population increases, I guess all cats and dogs must go. We are told we need more immigration or population growth for the economy, yet the greater the population, the fix is more people. Perhaps the problem with electric cars and Co2 emissions etc., is more about to many people world wide. Perhaps an economy that does not require more humans, and manages towards a world of a much lower human population. It is an Elephant in the room that no one of importance or influence can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I'll get told of for being off topic but. Problems there for all to see, it's looking back when we shave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I agree Erfolg, someone somewhere is usually on the make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 The theoretical efficiency of a diesel engine is around 55% in reality you be pushed to get 45%, but that is running at a constant speed at optimum conditions, so for a road vehicle less again. A combined cycle gas turbine power station with gas turbines using the exhaust to generate steam for a 2nd set of generators is getting to 65%. It also takes a substantial amount of energy in the construction of an oil production facility, drilling the wells, transporting it to a refinery and then selling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Hmm I will confess it is a 100 years (that is what seems) ago since i did heat engines. Also principally it was the Sterling, Carnot and another that at present memory fails. I am pretty sure that the Diesel Engine can be made to be more efficient than the 50 or so present, if the fuel is suitable as it is the compression ratio, cannot remember all the terms, again a brain fade. I remember that in principal the Otto cycle is inherently less efficient than the Diesel by quite a margin. What has really stuck with me is that the Sterling cycle was so great, that you wonder why it has not revolutionized the world of thermal engines. It has struck me that often theory and reality can be very different. I do believe that the Diesel engine can approach the levels of an electric motor, one day, if politically there are no obstacles. In my case I do not think I am that bothered, as what tends to influence me is how things are now. My wife is considering a new car, yet I know that Diesels are out, that petrol is also time limited. From what I read, the jury is out on so much of the electric car market, from the chemistry of the cells in electric cars, that manufacturers of the vehicles are not ever (not this week) on the method of connecting and arranging the cells, and the list goes on. Hybrids seem to have a lot more going for them in practical terms. But all are to expensive and seem unlikely to save the planet. So I am trying to delay, until rational judgments can be made or assessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hess Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Posted by Erfolg on 16/10/2018 21:41:22: I do believe that the Diesel engine can approach the levels of an electric motor, one day, if politically there are no obstacles. Anything is possible, but why stop there. One day, long after we're gone, they'll be able to convert mass directly into energy, so you can put one gram of poop int your device and get a lifetime of driving from it; however, when they get to that stage, there will be no need to drive. Everybody will live a virtual existence not constrained by the shortcomings of the human body and the world around it. Some say that we're already there, that we're all part of the virtual reality of something somewhere else in the Universe, so best not to worry about these things. We can't change much on our own. Just do what you think is right and be kind to other people, just in case you get to meet St Peter at the pearly gates. It would be terrible if your entrance was refused and you had to take the down elevator. Mind you, somebody told me that it wasn't bad down there. when he arrived everybody was standing up to their waist in excrement, but they seemed to be having a great time drinking coffee while nice rock music was playing and there were naked dancing girls on a stage above. Then, a bell rang and the devil appeared and shouted, "Alright, tea-break over. Back on your heads". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Cracknell Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 All this is very interesting but with the current (sorry!) crop of electric cars barely being able to propel themselves has anyone considered how the caravanning community will fare?? Still, at least you won't have to worry about accommodation while recharging!Edited By Robert Cracknell on 17/10/2018 20:30:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Electric caravans, we already have "static" ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Posted by Robert Cracknell on 17/10/2018 20:30:07: All this is very interesting but with the current (sorry!) crop of electric cars barely being able to propel themselves has anyone considered how the caravanning community will fare?? Still, at least you won't have to worry about accommodation while recharging! Edited By Robert Cracknell on 17/10/2018 20:30:42 I only have superficial knowledge of the tech, but Diesel Engine investment and manufacture is huge, with the so called two floor high "Cathedrals" in the belly of every ship at sea, massive diesel engines, I doubt they can wait months to plug in and charge. Large Diesel Engines will have to continue, though Cleaner, and they will sort that out, they have too Tiny electric cars will dominate carrying just a driver, and maybe a passenger occasionally But where tonnage needs to be moved, then Cleaner Diesels will continue and develop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Chambers Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Posted by Robert Cracknell on 17/10/2018 20:30:07: All this is very interesting but with the current (sorry!) crop of electric cars barely being able to propel themselves has anyone considered how the caravanning community will fare?? Still, at least you won't have to worry about accommodation while recharging! Edited By Robert Cracknell on 17/10/2018 20:30:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Chambers Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 They thought of that too! People will think i'm a Tesla fanboi at this rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Model S allows you take remote control of it by your mobile phone so that you can move it in and out of a parking space if there is no room to open the doors. Useful feature when parking in London I believe were spaces are very small car sized.... Tesla are far from perfect, but they do have a different creative mind set when compared to other car manufacturers. I'm quite looking forward to seeing what Dyson comes up with.... Idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Posted by Percy Verance on 18/10/2018 15:29:15: One thing's for sure, it'll be different........ Like Sir Clive Sinclair's effort? Mind you, at least I could afford one of them......! -- Pete Edited By Peter Christy on 18/10/2018 16:20:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 If the widespread adoption of electric vehicles leads ultimately to the caravan's demise, then millions will look upon that as an unintended benefit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Posted by Mike T on 18/10/2018 17:46:02: If the widespread adoption of electric vehicles leads ultimately to the caravan's demise, then millions will look upon that as an unintended benefit... And trailers generally, horse boxes, model transport boxes? Or are you trying to be funny. Or clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Posted by Percy Verance on 18/10/2018 18:11:23: I'm not sure Sir Clive Sinclaire and James Dyson is really a comparison Peter....... They're both inventors, but that's about it. Mr Dyson does at least appear to - for him at least - produce winners. A clever chap. He owns more land than the Queen ya know......... Edited By Percy Verance on 18/10/2018 18:19:30 I wouldn't class the Sinclair calculators, Sinclair Spectrum home computers (which launched a whole generation of progammers) and digital wrist watch as losers.................. And the land purchases are a tax dodge to get out of inheritance tax......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 i'm a caravanner and use a diesel car to tow my van.i bought a recent issue of a caravan mag because they were reviewing various cars for their towing attributes...in one section the winner was a VW polo 1.0 petrol engine job ! I was amazed to see the size of van it towed with flying colours...no slouch by the way it went about the business... ken anderson...ne...1 .caravan dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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