Tyre wear

[Cuban8]

I don't like mysteries, so maybe somebody here might be able to throw some light on a problem.

A destinctive humming noise has been developing from the rear wheels of my Mondeo Estate for quite some time now, not particularly loud up to recently, but getting quite annoying now, more so with the seats down. Quite loud at 60mph, but less so at 70+ (!).

I had the rear wheels off yesterday and there is quite clearly a very odd wear pattern developing around the circumference on the inner 20% of the tyre treads - the rest of the tread is perfectly normal although getting to the legal limit, so due for a change anyway. I can best describe the wear as resembling the flat edges of an old thruppenny bit. Fronts are perfectly normal and wearing fairly evenly.

Trawling through the web I see that this is known as 'castleing' and is very common over a wide range of vehicles, but.............I can't find a definitive reason for it or why some cars have it and some don't.

As with a lot on the web, there is so much misinformation and I've come across just about every reason that you can think of, most of it totally contradictory - under/over inflation, too much/too little tow in/out, cornering too quickly, driving too hard, mechanical wear, bearings, poor quality tyres......the list goes on and on. No real hard and fast evidence.

One guy on an auto forum claims to have had the total rear suspension of his car rebuilt, only for the problem to start again on a new set of boots.The remedy seems to be replacement and annual tyre rotation to even out the effect - fronts to back.

I've had the car since new, it's my old company car that I bought from the leasing company when I retired. 135000 miles now and I used to get through a set of boots every 25000 miles/18 months or so when I was on the road so maybe the problem didn't get a chance to develop and become noticeable.

Any ideas please?

[Levanter]

Cuban

​I had the same problem shortly after a tyre change on an Audi estate about three years ago. I went to t German tyre dealer who assured me the tyres he had ordered and put on were very good quality. The price certainly seemed to indicate so.
​I couldn't go back to them to complain as they closed down shortly afterwards so I went to another dealer who said the problem was cheap tyres. They were in fact Chinese lookalikes but were horribly noisy. It also turns out I paid nearly four times what they were worth. Lesson learned!

​Not saying this is your problem but I coughed up for a new set of Pirellis and the noise just disappeared.

Levanter

[Denis Watkins]

Castleing is very common Cuban, and as you say, rotate the wheel 1 nut space every 1000 - 2000mls

It is more associated with high mileage vehicles and is to do with power transfer to the road.

2 things are taking place, for example on a 4 cylinder motor, there is peak power transfer 4 times each rotation

So regularly through wheel rotation the pattern of power transfer shows in the tread

Then through an high mileage diff, there are high and low spots by the thou

So the car literally 3d bits along

Wear and tear on suspension at the rear can result in the whole wheel leaning in at the top and out at the bottom

Which leads to one edge wearing

As does in your case, a slight toe out

There are a number of rubber bushes that hold the whole lot inline, that can be replaced

Edited By Denis Watkins on 14/03/2018 11:54:51

[Peter Christy]

Shouldn't be power transfer, Denis - the OP says rear wheels and the Mondeo is FWD.

It could be the wheel bearings going at that sort of mileage, and wheel bearings can produce some odd noises when they wear. They might also produce some odd wear patterns.

One word of advice - steer well clear of Kwik-Fit! Find a local independent tyre shop. They may be a little dearer, but my experience has been that you get much better service! The last time I went to Kwik-Fit (some time ago!) they managed to fit the tyres with "INSIDE" clearly showing on the OUTSIDE!

You couldn't make it up!

--

Pete

[Piers Bowlan]

You have obviously ruled out worn rear wheel bearings Cuban8?

[ChrisB]

Also be aware of your cars jack points and style of jack points. Many modern cars use seam/sill points and not pads. This can result in crushing as the weight of the car is taken on a narrow surface area. The grease monkeys often don’t care and just merrily jack away then deny all knowledge afterwards. Some hockey pucks with cut outs or blocks of wood will help.

[J D 8]

Weak springs worn dampers on your car can result in the symptoms you describe. The castling will make a rumbling sound like driving on a set of knobbly winter tyres. Check the bearings though

[Trevor Crook]

Excessive wear on the inner corners of tyres can be caused by frequent straddling of speed cushions - best to run over them with one wheel. However, that wouldn't easily explain the wear only being on the rear tyres.

[ken anderson.]

hello Cuban...check the shocker isn't past its sell by date...

ken Anderson..ne..1.....shocker dept.

[Gary Binnie]

I had this on my S-Max when I bought it a year ago.

Believed it was a rear wheel bearing making the noise, so I changed it, no difference.

Took it to my local tyre shop where the manager spotted stepped tread blocks.

Caused by the rear suspension arms being out of adjustment (toe setting), they are adjusted with eccentric cams.

Tyre place said that they're often out of adjustment straight from the factory.

Four wheel alignment done (Hunter I think it was called) and a new set of tyres, bliss!

The S-Max, Galaxy and Mondeo share the same chassis.

Cheers

Gary

[rcaddict]

so you have to change the tyres, bearings, bushes, suspension & shockers - that narrows it down a bit

[Martin McIntosh]

A former workmate had an ancient Mondeo estate which suffered the same problem. Following him, it was obvious that the rear wheels were splayed outwards from the bottom. New springs etc more or less cured it and raised the car considerably.

[Phil Claridge]

last four should show up on mot

[onetenor]

Worn bearings can produce exactly those symptoms. They allow "Straddle" of the wheels allowing the edge wear and snatching ( skipping) as they approach total seizure. This is what causing the faceted wear pattern. Change them and the rubber bushes. I suggest replacing them with POLYPROPYLENE ones. Much firmer and harder wearing.At this age and mileage all bushes need replacing as they are semi perished and will show signs of cracking around the edges. Simple age and weathering will be a major contributor for this.Change them and the bearings ASAP. It is a DIYable job if you have the tools including a good G Clamp.

BTW don't forget the ones on top of the McPherson strut mount on the front wings. ( If still fitted to your Mark ). If a bearing does seize and lock a wheel causing all sorts of trouble. Especially at speed.. Really dangerous.

John (Ex Mech ) O/T

P.S. If a bearing does seize it can become welded onto the hub and might need the changing of hub if it can't be shifted John

[Engine Doctor]

The Mondeo rear suspension has some large rubber bushes at the front of the rear trailing arms. These are notorious for delaminating and a then allowing the rear hub to move back and forth. They will drag out of alignment when braking and can cause the wear you describe on the inside of your tyres. The same bushes are used on Volvo V70 and cause similar tyre wear accompanied by creaking noise when loaded up. Not expensive parts but some garages push up the labour and its really a simple job typically 2 hours ish for both bushes. Its often overlooked by mot testers as covered by a plastic dirt guard and testers can't remove the guard to check bushes. Its worth checking .

[Nigel R]

Expecting this on my a4; came with some tyres which made a lovely droning sound at 70. It is now on new tyres, but I have an audible creak from the rear suspension. So I expect it is due a round of new bushes. C'est la vie.

[Martin McIntosh]

The rear noise must just be a Mondeo thing. Someone pranged my current car when parked and I was given a fairly high spec. brand new Mondeo whilst it was being repaired. There was a very loud noise from the rear so I stopped to check that the boot, doors and windows were shut which they were. To think that one of these was on my short list at the time makes me shudder.

[Cuban8]

Thank you all for taking the trouble to reply. Again, quite a variation of possibilites to consider. Just thinking aloud, I'm trying to get my head around an MO that would give such a perfectly formed and regular 'thruppeny bit' pattern on the tyre edge. We've all seen seen tyres with smooth wear bands (almost bald) caused by bent track rods, but in that case the scuffing wear is regular and quite linear and is easy to understand how it might form on a rotating tyre.

If you wanted to design a test rig that gave you the castleing on a tyre, how would you go about it? And what on a vehicle would emulate the design?

[J D 8]

The "thruppeny bit" effect is quite common on 4x4 vehicles fitted with knobbly tyres as they have less rubber in contact with the tarmac and the "knobbles" take more load.

Tracking out,camber out,worn bushes,tired damper's tramping [ bouncing up and down rapidly a short distance ] all lead to the symptoms you describe.

[Colin Carpenter]

135000 miles ? Just get new tyres and turn up the stereo !!!😁😁😀 Colin

[Peter Christy]

My main car is currently just shy of 206,000 miles! Doesn't burn any oil, driven gently it can manage 40 mpg (though 35 is more usual), can blow off a Porsche Boxster and any BMW short of an M series and carry five people in comfort - though not all at the same time !

Old cars! Don't ya love them!

--

Pete

[Cuban8]

I'm not losing sleep over it, just a technical question that I was wondering about. I 'm happy that the vehicle has no undue wear or faults, so given that I'm only doing about 8000 miles a year now, it'll be no hardship to rotate the new tyres annually and even out any issue.

It is an odd phenomenon though and I was looking at a few other forums again this morning and the wear pattern can be a problem on a wide range of vehicles and tyre makes, despite the vehicles being closely inspected for faults and nothing being found.

[Cuban8]

Two new Firestone Roadhawks fitted yesterday and silence has returned. Not a peep from the rear wheels at all. Asked the garage to double check suspension bushes, wheel bearings etc while they had the wheels off, but they said every thing was fine. None the wiser I'm afraid.

[J D 8]

If your car has never had its rear dampers changed at that mileage I would advise replacement.

[Nigel Dell]

Had this same problem on the Wife’s old car, Peugeot 307, had replaced all the tyres with the same Continental that it came with, she used to do quite high mileage mainly motorway, she complained of a droning coming from the back, I took it out and pinpointed the back nearside, sounded like a wheel bearing or maybe a brake not coming off properly but no had the wheel off went through everything, nothing showed up as a problem, then I thought something in the tyre as soon as I looked a multitude of flat spots around the circumference, I checked the rear shock again but this seemed fine so put the spare wheel on and all was fine, it was coming up to a tyre change so I went back to the same tyre shop and put a set of Goodyears on it, they had not seen a problem like this on Continental before but on some cheap makes very occasionally, the other 3 tyres were good and the car went onto 190,000 miles without a hint of problems from then on, they did send the duff tyre back to the distributor and we got a voucher for a fair percentage off the next set of Continental’s but never used it.