BMFA subs increase.

[Erfolg]

Although of topic, KC, you seem to be correct, I have to pay more to send very little .

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Don Fry]

A prop, and postage, less than a pound. Try making that prop, and eating. Not here please.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Now this bit about costs of postage and bits and bits in UK versus China really is off topic! Let's drop it please. If you feel compelled to raise and discuss the issue then open another appropriate thread.

BEB

[Bob Cotsford]

I thought that the mag was largely paid for by advertising, is that not so? As for the insurance, I still wonder whether our litigious society has had an influence where in years gone by club incidents were settled by the guilty party coughing up.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

18th August the NC was booked out to a club for the day.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by kc on 12/09/2018 18:32:03:

Lets get one fact straight - most BMFA members did not get the chance to vote on the National Flying Centre! Only club delegates who actually attended were allowed to vote. And how many of those club delegates actually carried out a poll asking each of their members which way to vote? It was a project which was for the benefit of those clubs located close to the Centre. Nice field for them at our expense,while we have to struggle to find & pay for our own field.

Now they put up the subs! Those of us who were against the NFC knew this would happen.

As someone who had put finger to keyboard many times about the subject, I felt a duty to participate even though I abhor (and am quite inept at) speaking at public meetings. Similar to John Stones' actions reported in an earlier reply, I emailed every member of our club for comments and voting preferences before the EGM - and I don't expect that we were the only ones to take this sort of action. I arrived with a strong mandate from the reasonable percentage of our membership who had taken the trouble to reply to me, to vote against the proposal but with an open mind and declared intent to listen to the various arguments.  I heard nothing to make me decide not to respect the large majority of the members and cast our club's votes accordingly. I did leave with some reassurance of the competence of the individuals leading the project but serious misgivings about the wisdom of making such a large investment as was proposed - and carried by a large margin.

I was delighted when details of the leasing arrangement were released some months later as I felt this was a much safer proposition with a good chance of being workable.

As for it being a nice little venue for locals, I suspected that that might possibly be a factor so I asked for a show of hands for those who'd travelled over 100 miles to attend - and the vast majority of the room raised their arms...

Edited By Martin Harris on 15/09/2018 02:07:28

[kc]

Andy said " 18th August the NC was booked out to a club for the day." Does "booked out" mean the National Centre was closed to me and all other mere BMFA members on 18th August? A Saturday in the middle of the holiday season and BMFA members cannot use the BMFA's own facilities!

The cost of 75 pence per issue for the BMFA magazine seems very low and if it only costs that is good value. However I have not noticed any other magazine delivered for that sort of price. Are there any other magazines that cost so little?

[Don Fry]

KC, do I detect a little antipathy towards the BMFA.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Why does the mag cost so little ? articles by volunteers, staff on the ball keeping the costs down ?

N.C is closed some days, fair enough when folk pay for it use on the day, better than it stood empty and being a drain on our finances.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

My club is considering booking Buckminister for a day next year. We are a BMFA affliated club, all members are therefore fully paid up members of the BMFA. So if sufficeint interest is shown and we go ahead the flying facilities will be in full use by BMFA members. How would that be "closed to BMFA Members"? Just the opposite I would have thought, at full capacity by BMFA members!

BEB

[Erfolg]

BEB

No one I would have thought has any issue if the NFC (Buckminster) is in use 360 days a year, even if non BMFA people are present etc. As long as it does not divert resources from the BMFA members organisation.

For the life of me I cannot see why you would want to travel, what is it, 80 (160 round trip) miles to fly on a site, which in essences is just another venue.

If any of the Leicester staff devote any time what so ever to Buckminster, I would expect that the office would charge the std. hourly rate to the NFC. That was standard practice for the business that I work for. There was also a standard charge for the corporate, Centre to be paid as a part of the overhead costs of divisions.

As long as the NFC is separate in its accounts and support arrangements, I am not concerned, not even interested. For a lot of BMFA members, it is about as relevant as my employers "Corporate Centre" arrangements to most of the staff in divisions, other than we were viewed as wasters. For many it is to far, with nothing particularly special to warrant a designation of a must visit location.

Edited By Erfolg on 16/09/2018 21:20:57

[Devcon1]

For a weekend away with clubmates flying at a new site combined with the social/evening element is very appealing.

Will make some enquiries.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[MattyB]

Posted by Erfolg on 16/09/2018 21:19:32:

...If any of the Leicester staff devote any time what so ever to Buckminster, I would expect that the office would charge the std. hourly rate to the NFC. That was standard practice for the business that I work for. There was also a standard charge for the corporate, Centre to be paid as a part of the overhead costs of divisions.

As long as the NFC is separate in its accounts and support arrangements, I am not concerned, not even interested. For a lot of BMFA members, it is about as relevant as my employers "Corporate Centre" arrangements to most of the staff in divisions, other than we were viewed as wasters. For many it is too far, with nothing particularly special to warrant a designation of a must visit location.

Happy to be corrected by those from the BMFA who are posting , but I have not seen any evidence in the accounts that the BMFA and the NFC are financially or organisationally separated, nor do I remember seeing anything about that in the proposals that were submitted prior to the EGM. Certainly Manny and other members of the salaried team helped with the initial proposals and groundwork to kick off the project.

The personnel aspect I am less concerned about, but the lack of a financial "firewall" between the project and BAU operations remains a concern to me. Obviously the current Treasurer has stated it will never occur on his watch, but he is only one individual and if the NFC cannot be developed to be truly self supporting the need to go back to the (seemingly declining) membership could become unavoidable. Remember, if we were to step away from the NFC at this point the BMFA would be a minimum of £335k down (I can only link to that thread with transcriptions listing the financials because the BMFA appear to have removed the originals from their website).

[Erfolg]

Matty

If you are correct I will be very disappointed. I had understood that assurances had been made that there would be a clear division of accounts of the NFC from the BMFA members. If this was not made, I can only say I am mistaken.

It is just good practice to be able to understand the financial arrangements of any part of the BMFA and any subsidiary. Without this information it is not possible for any one to truly know the state of the business. Potentially a recipe for surprises that some suspected were possible, others being blissfully unaware.

[Martin Dilly 1]

One or two comments after having done a bit of a speed-read of the posts on this topic.

First, it's good to see that at last people are realising that there's a helluva a lot more to the BMFA than insurance. It's a bit like a benevolent iceberg (an odd analogy here...); the insurance is the easy and visible bit, but holding the whole thing (our sport, that is) together is the mass of work done by a few people, some paid and some volunteers, that a lot of people seem to think somehow happens by magic, if they ever realise it's done at all. I personally think that the BMFA's ads should lead by stressing all that work and then mention the insurance almost as an additional benefit.

Regarding the FPVUK insurance costs compared with the BMFA subscription, I think you'll find that the former gives cover up to £5,000,000 whereas the BMFA members are covered to £25,000,000, which I believe is the minimum required by most local authorities and the MoD. FPVUK is, by the way, already a recognised specialist body, like IMAC and BARCS, but there seems to have been some difficulty in actually getting much response from them when it comes to collaboration with the BMFA. Maybe, as an earler post mentioned, it's because they are perhaps something of a one man band.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Martin Dilly 1 on 18/09/2018 00:36:30:

FPVUK is, by the way, already a recognised specialist body, like IMAC and BARCS, but there seems to have been some difficulty in actually getting much response from them when it comes to collaboration with the BMFA. Maybe, as an earler post mentioned, it's because they are perhaps something of a one man band.

Quick correction there FPVUK are not a recognised specialist body of the BMFA, the speciailist body for FPV related stuff is the British First Person View Racing Association (BFPVRA) and there has been no difficulty with responses and collaboration, a very enthusiastic group they are too!

[Peter Jenkins]

Why don't you ask Steve? Set out what you think is unnecessary spending and see what response you get. Vague comments aren't particularly helpful.

[MattyB]

I just received some notes from our Area Rep regarding the BMFA full council meeting that might shed some limited light on the questions in this thread regarding the increasing insurance claims and the BMFA News. Important point - these are rough notes distributed to all clubs in our area from the Area rep, not official meeting minutes.

Excerpts below...

"Finance
Most of the meeting was given over to accounts for 2017-18, and the proposed budget for 2018-19. BMFA membership is down by 1000 senior members for 2018 compared to 2017, resulting in an overall £20k loss of income when reduced insurance premiums and postage are factored in. The insurance rebate for our good claim record has reduced from £30k to £26k due to increased claims this year; there is a risk that we may lose this altogether next year (2-fold increase in car damage claims and 4-fold increase in claims for damage to models). The Treasurer proposed a £4 increase in senior subscriptions to £38, with junior fees at 50%. This was agreed and will be tabled at the AGM.

The new membership system will save on postage, membership cards, and staff time. In addition, a change to mainly electronic distribution of AGM paperwork will further reduce operating costs. BMFA News is a significant cost, but members like the print format and advertising revenue is increasing.

Safety
The safety review will now form part of the Area Council mandate, not Technical Committees. This should allow better transfer of information to clubs on the impact of insurance claims on our annual rebate and hopefully reduce reckless parking (too near the pits or flight line) and crashing into models in the pits."

Edited By MattyB on 18/09/2018 13:24:26

[MattyB]

Also in the notes was an update on the NFC finances and plans for 2019...

"National Centre
The accounts for 2017-18 will just about break even, so it is unlikely we will be able to afford the proposed £10k support to the National Centre this year. However, revenue generation has passed expectations, and a significant bequest has enabled phase 1 to be completed. A cut down phase 2 is under way to provide a bunk room and showers, hopefully augmented by £70k Leadership funding from the EU if the application succeeds. Charitable status is being explored, both for the Centre and for the BMFA."

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Tricky topic reckless parking, what is it ? what will your field allow as the "safest" option ? are/will some fields to be deemed unfit for purpose ? crashing into models in the pits ? the mind boggles.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Our car park is almost a 100 yds away from one flight line, even farther from our other flight line. I know of flightlines where the people almost fly out their car boots, others slightly further back, is it the proximity or the pilots at fault ? what's the answer to this one ?

Expensive models being crashed into in the pits ? have we been paying out for less than expensive models being crashed into whilst in the pits over the years ? Is it a new phenomena ?

Got to stop typing now, I feel a bit of whiplash coming on.

[Dave Cunnington]

JS : Didn't know you were acquainted with her ?