CAA registration consulation

[Former Member]

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[Paul Marsh]

A question: Is the the new proposed bill for Drones (Quads, etc) or for all models, such as aircraft, helicopters and the like?

If for Unmanned UAV's and Drones only then maybe justified, but for all models, then I can see this being the end of model flying in the UK?

[Former Member]

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[Gary Manuel]

An extract from the consultation document Paul:

1.2 All those in the UK operating drones or model aircraft between 250 grams and 20 kilograms must register by the end of November 2019. From the same period, remote pilots will be required to take an online safety test. Failure to comply with these rules could lead to a fine of £1,0001.

[MattyB]

Posted by kevin b on 27/04/2019 14:14:08:

This is an interesting little thread !

here are some questions.

How many of you buy season tickets for anything ?

How about TV licences ?

Digital TV, or mobile phone packages ?

Pay for parking when going shopping ?

It is a fact of life that services have a cost, one way or another.

Less than 32p per week is not a lot to pay for regulation in a hobby that sadly needs it.

The BMFA, as we all know are totally unable to regulate the hobby, and as a consequence of lack of regulation, we now have this "drone" problem".

What? There is plenty of regulation of the hobby already. Every single high profile case of recent times (including the Gatwick incident) could be prosecuted in a court, should the authorities be able to find evidence identifying the perpetrator(s). Therein lies the problem though - there aren’t resources or will for effective enforcement of these regulations. Adding pilot registration into the mix won’t make any difference there, but it will make a decent headline for Daily Mail readers which is probably a major driver of the politicians behind this.

Edited By MattyB on 27/04/2019 14:46:49

[Former Member]

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[Cliff Bastow]

MP,s have a lot on there plate! as someone who has just had to work 3 -12 hour days over the 4 day Easter break I feel really sorry  that when they finally get back after there extended break they might have to try and sort some problems out!  Mostly of there own making to be honest.

Rant over and yes I know its slightly off topic.

Edited By Cliff Bastow on 27/04/2019 14:57:28

[Former Member]

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[Shaun Walsh]

Two things:

The BMFA already hold a database of members, therefore either:

It could be made available to the CAA at little cost meaning that BMFA membership is de-facto registration.

Alternatively anyone who wants to fly a drone has to be a member of the BMFA and the CAA don't have to run the system at all.

As to who pays, as this is for the protection of passengers, aircraft operators and airports I am sure a small levy per passenger or plane departure would more than pay for the scheme

But lets face it, the sort of person who is happy to fly a drone in restricted airspace probably won't realise that they need to register and if they do realise probably won't bother. It's a bit like drink driving, you can reduce the blood alcohol level at which it is legal to drive but it will have no effect because people who drink and drive will do so no matter what the law says, the only way to solve a problem like this is by rigorous enforcement and prosecution but that is far too difficult and therefore expensive, far easier to have a registration system that only affects the law abiding, a bit like gun licencing, how many armed robbers have a firearms licence?

Ok, rant over

[kevin b]

I agree Percy, but we CHOOSE to fly model aeroplanes.

Another couple of questions.

If we still had to pay the licence fee (as in days of yore) as a legal requirement, how many of us would still be flying ?

As "drones" are radio controlled, then anyone buying one would have had to obtain a licence. How many would have been imported and sold ?

Would we still be in the same position as today ?

We all cheered when the licence fee was removed. Maybe it has come back to bite us ?

Anybody want to talk about dog licences ?

[Engine Doctor]

A load of very valid points in these posts . Unfortunately none of them will be read or listened to by anyone in government who has influence. I have lost faith in any politician , whatever party they represent as they are only in politics for themselves . We can only fight this collectively and I hope collectively means the model flying organisations BMFA, LMA etc. Alas I feel that the decision has already been made and that this consultation is merely an afterthought. Like many I have completed the consultation and written to my MP but won't hold my breath or even expect an answer.

[GONZO]

I'm with the rebels on here! No registration and no fee. Sub 250gm and anything else at my friends field at his house which is at the end of a single track dead end road in rural North Wales.

IMO we need to stop putting the whole blame on the rogue operators, if indeed they are just that and not 'controlled' establishment operators, at least in some events, providing a 'crisis' for which a solution already exists which will deliver the required end result of removing us from the lower airspace.

They are not the main cause by a long way. They are jus being used as a 'stick to beat us with'.

Years back at the start of all this I said that we were not wanted AT ALL in the lower airspace. I was shouted down and dismissed by many. The lower airspace had become a commodity for sale and we were contaminating it with our presence reducing its value. It is easier to suffocate an activity to death, if time exists, with increasing registration fees and regulation than create a sudden step change with a ban. A ban can used at a later date once the number of participants have been reduced sufficiently if pressures dictate.

Latterly, due to concessions I had softened my view and started to become more optimistic. Regrettably this announcement has reversed this attitude.

Undoubtedly, there are those that will pay whatever price and jump through as many hoops as is necessary. But, they require a club in which to continue their activities. As numbers of members decrease, as they surely will, then a minimum critical mass will be reached and clubs will fold leaving these people with no where to go. Thus aeromodelling will be consigned to history.

I hope, most fervently, that the CAA row back on these proposals. Although, I fear it will be no more than a stay of execution rather than a free pardon.

[Former Member]

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[GONZO]

Commercialisation, international corporations and their role in governing countries etc. Oh Percy, so many things that are wrong in our societies/countries/culture and Western civilisation stem from these sources. But, off topic so no more to be said.

[Old Geezer]

Even if we ALL do register it will not make model flying any safer to the general public than it is now i.e. the odds of any member of the public going about their lawful occasions being injured by a lawfully flown model are something like several millions to one. The application of a registration number to said legally flown plane will neither increase nor decrease such odds. However it seems that hobby full size pilots regard complying with the CAA reg's as optional, only last week someone flew an autogyro flat out straight over our patch at no more than a couple of hundred feet, and then banked and came back for another look, again straight across the patch, two petrol Wot4XLs in the air and another two stroke being tuned in the pits - so, no, we didn't hear the interloper coming, he just appeared from behind the pits - we didn't have a chance. Unfortunately we were unable to see any registration markings so - - - - but I'll guess he hasn't reported an airprox. And if the pilot had driven his autogyro into one of the Wotties at full chat - -

[Former Member]

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[GONZO]

I think, at the current rate, they will be lucky to get 25,000. That's less than a 6th of their figures. Pro rata it would mean the fee going up to £100 to maintain the projected income.

[Former Member]

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[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Find this thread quite funny myself.

BMFA fee goes up "It's only X amount a week" How much a week does this amount to ?

Politicians getting some stick ? Well the French ain't being charged owt.

Titanic n deck chairs, really ? I fished, it's cost a fair bit, national license, association books, peg fees, match fees, £16.50 a year ? We don't know how lucky we are, compared to other hobbies.

Drones, or "Proper" models ? That debates long gone, give it a rest for gods sake.

We are having our pockets picked, because they can, I will fill the consultation form in as requested by the BMFA, whatever the result, it ain't the end of the world.

Now for the serious stuff...Who's gonna monitor this within clubs ? Those dreadful over officious committee men, in their yellow vests with anti fun police written large on the back ? and how long before it's all the fault of the BMFA.

[Former Member]

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[Peter Christy]

John: Whilst I agree that this is probably inevitable, I don't agree with just rolling over and giving up. We need to make our displeasure clear to those in authority.

My local MP will almost certainly lose her seat at the next election. She knows that she will need every vote she can scrape if she wishes to continue. If everyone in our club (and neighbouring ones) who is within her constituency writes to her, it will give her some incentive to do something.

In view of the parlous state of British politics at the moment, I suspect quite a lot of MPs are feeling the heat. Enough letters from irate modellers *might* just provoke some of them to action. You never know......

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Pete

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Steve J on 27/04/2019 16:46:27:

Posted by john stones 1 on 27/04/2019 16:20:27:

Now for the serious stuff...Who's gonna monitor this within clubs ? Those dreadful over officious committee men, in their yellow vests with anti fun police written large on the back ? and how long before it's all the fault of the BMFA.

The CAA have chosen not to involve the BMFA in the registration scheme (IMHO this is a good thing, I don't think that the BMFA should be a tax collector). BMFA clubs should return the favour. Other than making sure that their members are aware of ANO articles 94C,D,E&F they should do nothing.

Steve

I was referring to the undoubted comments to come, over who will ensure people comply within the clubs Steve. And who will ensure people know about ANO this that n the tother, as you know no one reads the BMFA news.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Peter Christy on 27/04/2019 16:31:19:

John: Whilst I agree that this is probably inevitable, I don't agree with just rolling over and giving up. We need to make our displeasure clear to those in authority.

My local MP will almost certainly lose her seat at the next election. She knows that she will need every vote she can scrape if she wishes to continue. If everyone in our club (and neighbouring ones) who is within her constituency writes to her, it will give her some incentive to do something.

In view of the parlous state of British politics at the moment, I suspect quite a lot of MPs are feeling the heat. Enough letters from irate modellers *might* just provoke some of them to action. You never know......

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Pete

I won't roll over Pete, I'll make my voice heard and hope it helps.