The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[stevejet66]

Hi everyone, Due to the new legislation with model flying ive decided to call it a day, I neither have a B or A certificate for flying. Although ive flown for many years now in a private club i just cant be bothered anymore, I will let my club members know tomorrow im pulling the plug. I will have a fair bit of gear for sale on ebay at the weekend, Collection only from wolverhampton/willenhall area, Look for stevem-03 on ebay. Planes, Wings, Engines, endless bits n pieces. Thanks for looking.

[Chris Berry]

Posted by stevejet66 on 31/10/2019 19:25:01:

Hi everyone, Due to the new legislation with model flying ive decided to call it a day, I neither have a B or A certificate for flying. Although ive flown for many years now in a private club i just cant be bothered anymore, I will let my club members know tomorrow im pulling the plug. I will have a fair bit of gear for sale on ebay at the weekend, Collection only from wolverhampton/willenhall area, Look for stevem-03 on ebay. Planes, Wings, Engines, endless bits n pieces. Thanks for looking.

 

So you’re giving up because you don’t want to pay £9 more to the BMFA and do an online quiz on the BMFA website?

That seems very odd!! It surely can’t just be the legislation that’s caused you to make this decision.

Edited By Chris Berry on 31/10/2019 20:05:23

[Don Fry]

Chris, our fellow flyer has already said he is not a BMFA member, or at least he describes a private club.You have to accept some people just don't do paperwork.

But Steve, I would, urge however, a go at the CAA test. If you can fly you can pass. Then, £9 quid poorer, you are good to go.

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Don Fry on 31/10/2019 20:18:11:

Chris, our fellow flyer has already said he is not a BMFA member, or at least he describes a private club.You have to accept some people just don't do paperwork.

But Steve, I would, urge however, a go at the CAA test. If you can fly you can pass. Then, £9 quid poorer, you are good to go.

It’s not really paperwork. Just the same as car insurance, car tax or renewing your passport. Ah well, each to their own.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Been field today, no great drama with the members over this, few As to get sorted maybe.

[sticky fingers]

Gents, I received a couple of Pdf files today from the CAA titled Miscellaneous Air Navigation Order 2016 no. 1324 and 1326 dated 28 october 2019

General exemption E4953 my understanding of theses docs is that provided we are members of recognised organisations such as BMFA, LMA we have exemption from articles 94F and 94D

Edited By sticky fingers on 31/10/2019 21:30:59

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Unless I've missed something very significant, the concession is only until the end of the of the current BMFA membership year.

[Former Member]

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[SR 71]

im in the same mind as Chris, i started 70 years ago, the last 13 years in Cyprus and iv just returned to this country, i have no A or B or anything else, been flying everything from turbines to gliders, now i have to take a test and answer a load of questions before i can fly

Im in the middle of building a new hanger, maybe ill turn it into a RailRoad station for a new layout

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

20 simple multiple choice questions with the answers in front of you and unlimited attempts? If you have any real interest in model flying, is this an insurmountable barrier?

[Chris Berry]

Posted by Martin Harris on 31/10/2019 23:15:19:

20 simple multiple choice questions with the answers in front of you and unlimited attempts? If you have any real interest in model flying, is this an insurmountable barrier?

Absolutely agree Martin. Anyone who has been flying for more than a few years clearly has a keen interest and has made it part of their life. 9 quid and a little quiz should be easily attainable. Sadly, many people fear officialdom, paperwork and the word test. Many people say “I haven’t done a test for decades” as though it’s a big thing. How people manage to get through life I don’t know. Car tax, mortgage, job interviews, tax returns, passport applications, if people are unfortunate enough probate papers.

Surely the whole reason for fighting this little war of ours was to win. I consider the outcome to be a victory with some minor losses. After all the hard work that many people have put in to this, surely people can’t just give up and walk away, it seems silly to give in!

Have a go at the NATs quiz, it’s easy. Don’t let Baroness Vere win by you guys giving in!

[Old Geezer]

Well said Chris.

How many of us have chucked in the towel and stopped driving just because they have to renew their driving licence every 3 years? Remember: "Nil carborundum illegitemii etc. etc. - - - "

( Don't let the Barstewards grind you down! )

[BlueSky]

If you read the new CAA rules, it mentions 'Police' all the way through the publications.

Prior to 2018 - Police had little or no interest in model flyers.

Now they are instructed to check the documentation of anybody flying model aircraft or drones.

and, if not correct, on the spot fines for a first offense, second offense, jail time.

The rozzers do not have a good track record in making balanced judgments. Witness the harassment of the couple who happpend to live within a 5 mile radius of Gatwick airport. They had a facebook account with a photo of a drone that the bloke used to own and sold a long time before the 'incident'.

[Peter Christy]

Posted by BlueSky on 01/11/2019 08:14:50:

The rozzers do not have a good track record in making balanced judgments. Witness the harassment of the couple who happpend to live within a 5 mile radius of Gatwick airport. They had a facebook account with a photo of a drone that the bloke used to own and sold a long time before the 'incident'.

That was at the height of the "incident", when the plods were under extreme pressure to do something, anything - not that that's any excuse for 1) not investigating properly, before jumping to conclusions or 2) allowing the information to fall into the hands of the gutter press.

Our local police don't even have enough manpower to round up a gang of feral teens terrorising passengers at the bus station, let alone start hunting for drone flyers.

I dare say if they receive a complaint, and happen to be in the neighbourhood, they might investigate, so beware if your club has any "anti" neighbours. Otherwise, I can't see them bothering.

As for that poor couple who were pilloried, I hope they got handsome compensation from both the press AND the plods!

--

Pete

[Nigel R]

so remind me, we have to

1) pay £9 to BMFA at renewal time, sometime before Jan 2020

2) a BMFA multiple choice test (yet to go live) to do at time of paying the extra £9 for non-holders...

3) ...unless you have an A or B certificate

4) sticker with magic number inside each airframe

and that's it?

[Cuban8]

Posted by stevejet66 on 31/10/2019 19:25:01:

Hi everyone, Due to the new legislation with model flying ive decided to call it a day, I neither have a B or A certificate for flying. Although ive flown for many years now in a private club i just cant be bothered anymore, I will let my club members know tomorrow im pulling the plug. I will have a fair bit of gear for sale on ebay at the weekend, Collection only from wolverhampton/willenhall area, Look for stevem-03 on ebay. Planes, Wings, Engines, endless bits n pieces. Thanks for looking.

I think that we underestimate the number of people who may well react as stevejet is. Who knows what is driving his intention to pack it in - probably a number of things of which all the pointless faff of registration is the tipping point. I respect and understand his position and wish him well.

I loathe the pointless new regs as much as anyone and am frustrated at the apparent powerlessness that we as ordinary members seem to be trapped in, but that won't stop my participation in the hobby. I've too much invested in it and not just in financial terms or the actual flying of models. However, those that are less engaged or have their model flying as a minor part of several other activities are more likely to not bother to continue, not because of a measly nine quid, but the overall perception of the extra hassle and box ticking and parrot fashion learning of a few rules for no purpose. A severe annoyance to most of us that we'll (for the moment, hopefully) have to take in our stride.

The other thing is how many will simply ignore the rules and carry on flying on their own property or someone else's land just now and again as the fancy takes them, maybe only a handful of times a year in the good weather? - essentially 'dropping off the radar' if they allow their BMFA (if they have it) to lapse. Even if just a few percent of modellers throw in the towel it's a bad hit on an already contracting hobby and the BMFA and many clubs really can't afford to lose members - the effect of natural wastage is having enough of a negative impact as it is.

[Former Member]

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[Wingman]

I wonder what the deal will be if you refuse to land? A truncheon over the back of the head? Tazered? Just joking (I hope) but, to me, that is the worst facet of these regs, the fact that the police will be able criminalise you on the spot for flying a toy aeroplane. Our site is only a mile or so from the cop shop and they have been known to stop by in their patrol car and watch us flying for a few minutes on a nice day so I'm sure we can expect a visit.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Engine Doctor]

If your flying legally at your site why would the police want to "visit" you ? Yes they might be interested enough to have a look but if your behaving and flying within the regs they won't 'thave to to question or have to inspect anything We invite our local police dog handlers to use our field/site for training/exercising their dogs and don't expect to be interrogated every time they see us.

Again its typical of many forums " what if" or " think the worst scenario " hype. Come on guys get real ,you would want the police to question anyone who is flying dangerously or bringing us into disrepute , wouldn't you ?

Ps. Section 2 pear (b) covers it on Steve J previous post.

Edited By Engine Doctor on 01/11/2019 11:15:36

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Keep calm and carry on.

Been a long slog this drone thing, start talking the hobby up, walking around feeling sorry for ourselves is self defeating. Go out n do what you enjoy.

[David P Williams]

There's an ad on the BMFA classifieds where someone's taking a £750 hit selling his new unbuilt jet kit because he doesn't want to pay £9 a year.

Madness.

[John Lee]

Posted by Nigel Heather on 31/10/2019 11:19:06:

My club takes BMFA membership at the same time as the club fees. I thought this was pretty much the norm, as when I was a member of two clubs both were imploring me to do BMFA membership through them (of course I could only satisfy one of them - I have always assumed that there was some benefit for the club).

So in past years, the AGM has been mid-November, I have paid my combined club and BMFA fees and my new BMFA card and certificate has turned up in December.

I appreciate that BMFA say you can wait until 31st Jan 2020 but that is not what my club does - well at least in previous years.

Cheers,

Nigel

At our Club AGM last week we decided unanimously to split the Club & BMFA Fees. Members can now pay their Club Fees but will need to wait until after the BMFA AGM if they want to pay both together or pay the BMFA directly.

The rationale behind this is:

1) With the Azolve/GoMembership portal the Membership Secretary can easily check who has paid their BMFA Membership.

2) BMFA Members will have multiple choice for their Membership Status with or without the £9 CAA Fees depending on what & if they fly or if they pay direct to the CAA. So the fee matrix gets a bit complicated Senior/Junior/with or without BMFA/with or without CAA.

3) Due to GDPR we doubt that the BMFA will be able to pass on Members details for registration with the CAA without their express permission. It may not be possible for the Club to give that permission on their behalf, we will wait & see.

4) We no longer have to wait for the BMFA AGM before setting the Club Fees.

5) Some Members may find it easier to pay their BMFA Fees online & it splits having to pay 2 expenses just before Christmas.

The Committee, Instructors & Examiner have all agreed to pay the BMFA Fees through the Club to ensure we remain Affiliated & we will review again next year.

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by John Lee on 01/11/2019 12:26:50:

Posted by Nigel Heather on 31/10/2019 11:19:06:

My club takes BMFA membership at the same time as the club fees. I thought this was pretty much the norm, as when I was a member of two clubs both were imploring me to do BMFA membership through them (of course I could only satisfy one of them - I have always assumed that there was some benefit for the club).

So in past years, the AGM has been mid-November, I have paid my combined club and BMFA fees and my new BMFA card and certificate has turned up in December.

I appreciate that BMFA say you can wait until 31st Jan 2020 but that is not what my club does - well at least in previous years.

Cheers,

Nigel

At our Club AGM last week we decided unanimously to split the Club & BMFA Fees. Members can now pay their Club Fees but will need to wait until after the BMFA AGM if they want to pay both together or pay the BMFA directly.

The rationale behind this is:

1) With the Azolve/GoMembership portal the Membership Secretary can easily check who has paid their BMFA Membership.

2) BMFA Members will have multiple choice for their Membership Status with or without the £9 CAA Fees depending on what & if they fly or if they pay direct to the CAA. So the fee matrix gets a bit complicated Senior/Junior/with or without BMFA/with or without CAA.

3) Due to GDPR we doubt that the BMFA will be able to pass on Members details for registration with the CAA without their express permission. It may not be possible for the Club to give that permission on their behalf, we will wait & see.

4) We no longer have to wait for the BMFA AGM before setting the Club Fees.

5) Some Members may find it easier to pay their BMFA Fees online & it splits having to pay 2 expenses just before Christmas.

The Committee, Instructors & Examiner have all agreed to pay the BMFA Fees through the Club to ensure we remain Affiliated & we will review again next year.

That’s useful information, thank you.

Is there any benefit to the club collecting the BMFA fees. I had always assumed there was - the reason is I used to be a member of two clubs, obviously I could only choose one to get my BMFA fees but the other one was always nagging me to change that and pay my BMFA through them. I always wondered why they cared so much and concluded that there must be some benefit for them.

Cheers,

Nigel