The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[GONZO]

You only have to have your models labeled up with your reg number when you FLY it, not just to own it and keep it at home or have it in the car or even at the flying field. It does not infringe the legislation unless it is flown without you being registered as the operator, the number on the model and you having attained a competency qualification.. The key action is FLYING the model.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by GONZO on 05/01/2020 09:01:26:

The threat effect is what it was designed to do. That and the checking on other modellers by modellers and snitching on them or ostracising them, as demonstrated by the attitudes displayed in this thread. It's all in the best traditions of a totalitarian communist state of the cold war era where neighbours and even family members spied on each other and then denounced them to the state.

Gulags.

[GONZO]

Ha Ha john. But, as can be seen from some attitudes expressed here it will cause an atmosphere of mistrust and suspicion and possibly anger at the field. I can see a situation where some one is flying a sub 250g plane and then being ordered to prove it is sub 250g. In that situation I would demand that they in return prove their car is insured, taxed and if necessary MOT'ed as I will be using the same roads as them. This is the very reason why the BMFA stated that neither they or the affiliated clubs would be policing the legislation.

[GONZO]

Further to my previous post. The correct procedure would be for any club member, including committee members, to call the police and report a possible infringement. As just members of the general public no one has the right to demand any information/proof from any one else, they do not have that authority. They can only request and if the request is not granted report it to the authorities.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

As I inferred earlier, we have neither the intention of policing this legislation nor the ability to do so. Our rules state that members must abide by the relevant legislation and that's as far as it goes. Should someone conceal the fact that they haven't registered by displaying a false number then that is their concern...

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I think you may be a little obsessed Gonzo, most folk will just get on and go fly, no big fuss no drama. Let it go and go enjoy yourself.

[Don Fry]

Posted by GONZO on 05/01/2020 18:11:27:

Further to my previous post. The correct procedure would be for any club member, including committee members, to call the police and report a possible infringement. As just members of the general public no one has the right to demand any information/proof from any one else, they do not have that authority. They can only request and if the request is not granted report it to the authorities.

Equate that to your post of 0919 today.

Keep clear of fields of pain. Keep clear of long reports on short bits of paper. Keep clear of liars on the internet. Have a beer, whiskey, walk the dog. God forbid, fly an aircraft.

[GONZO]

It equates to it exactly. In both instances if you have doubts about the legality of either then the correct approach is to report it to some one who has the authority to insist on proof of legal compliance. Taking the law into ones own hands can give rise to derision at best and unforeseen potentially unpleasant events at worst..

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by GONZO on 05/01/2020 17:29:50:

You only have to have your models labeled up with your reg number when you FLY it, not just to own it and keep it at home or have it in the car or even at the flying field. It does not infringe the legislation unless it is flown without you being registered as the operator, the number on the model and you having attained a competency qualification.. The key action is FLYING the model.

Yes Gonzo - that's why I used the word "flying" in my post.

[Brian Cooper]

With the exception of Christmas Day, I have been flying every day for the last 19 days, and at NO point has a squad of armed police, complete with riot shields, dogs, horses and a helicopter hovering overhead, appeared at the field. . . Not even a Bobby on a pushbike. . . It's quite disappointing really.

B.C.

[i12fly]

Only muppets won't register -it could damage the good work of the BMFA and jeopardise the next stage

OK, I'll get my coat

[GONZO]

Posted by i12fly on 05/01/2020 21:39:37:

Only muppets won't register -it could damage the good work of the BMFA and jeopardise the next stage

OK, I'll get my coat

and those who only fly CL and/or sub 250g? Or, do you class these people the same?

Edited By GONZO on 06/01/2020 06:53:22

[Brian Cooper]

Please excuse me, gentlemen, but I need to nip out to buy some more popcorn.

[Wilco Wingco]

Is this what we have in store???. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc4vHj7mPxk&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2qq7xTmP6I_tcAJKXpp9d756I5klV7xEiiLYvDYZHJrriioXO8a2nKg8c

Thin end of the wedge??

[Martin_K]

Posted by Wilco Wingco on 07/01/2020 14:48:05:

Is this what we have in store???

Remote ID is part of U-space (Unmanned Traffic Management) as being deployed across the EU following proposals from EASA. In the UK the CAA are also currently conforming to EASA standards.

The operational requirements for Remote ID specified by the FAA in America are not the same as those in Europe. Neither in America or Europe has the hardware and software for Remote ID yet been specified. Some common standards for implementation are emerging, e.g. Wi-Fi Aware, ASTM F3411.

Therefore Remote ID is expected in the UK but not with the same rules attached as in the USA.

[Alan Gorham_]

Posted by GONZO on 06/01/2020 06:52:57:

Posted by i12fly on 05/01/2020 21:39:37:

Only muppets won't register -it could damage the good work of the BMFA and jeopardise the next stage

OK, I'll get my coat

and those who only fly CL and/or sub 250g? Or, do you class these people the same?

Edited By GONZO on 06/01/2020 06:53:22

But people who fly C/L or sub 250g models are exempt from registration. Would they be considered muppets for registering when they have no need? It's perfectly clear that i12fly meant people who the legislation applies to.

[Wilco Wingco]

Thanks Martin for the information. I didn't know that the EU were looking at remote ID. Does that mean that the BMFA will be involved to promote the interests of we fixed wing and heli flyers or will the new proposed legislation only apply to drones??. would have thought that the BMFA would have published a paper on this or maybe they have and we simple flyers are not aware of it?.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[MattyB]

Posted by Steve J on 07/01/2020 16:50:05:

Posted by Wilco Wingco on 07/01/2020 16:22:26:

I didn't know that the EU were looking at remote ID.

'direct remote identification' is in the EU regulations that start to apply from July. The regulations only require remote ID for certain classes of unmanned aircraft. Some countries (e.g. France) seem to be going beyond what the regulations require. What the UK will end up doing is anybody's guess.

Further to Steve's post, if you want some light reading try the following docs which will tell you more about the remote ID requirements within the EASA regs going live in July 2020...

CAP 1789 - The EU UAS Regulation Package – Outline

This gives an outline overview, but for the detailed requirements around remote ID you need to read the...

Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2019/945 on unmanned aircraft and on third country operators of unmanned aircraft systems

...in the Annex parts 2-5, pg 24-31. The remote ID requirements seem to apply only to RTF products, but the devil is in the detail and it wouldn't surprise me if UK legislators decided to move in the same direction asFrance where remote ID is required for anything over 250g outside certain recognised flying sites.

The key point here is that the BMFA and other national associations are currently trying to negotiate exemptions to key parts of these regulations for their members (for instance around min distances in when operating in the Open class C3). What they will be able to achieve we will see, but so far they have been relatively bullish about members being able to continue to operate as they do today beyond July this year. Personally though I suspect remote ID will inevitably become a requirement even for home built LOS SUAS over 250g (which includes traditional model aircraft and drones), whether it is this year (admittedly fairly unlikely) or sometime in the next 5.

Edited By MattyB on 07/01/2020 17:11:30

[Martin_K]

Wilco Wingco,

You may ask yourself, 'what is being delegated in the Delegated Regulation?' One of the main things is certification of compliance of UAS's with the product standards for operation in the 'Open Category' - i.e. delegated to the manufacturers.

As I understand it the BMFA are seeking to have model aircraft handled under Article 16 of the Implementing Regulation (Operations in the framework of model aircraft clubs and associations), meaning we avoid the severe restrictions imposed by the 'Open Category'.

How 'privately built' models will be treated remains to be seen.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[cymaz]

Posted by Steve J on 07/01/2020 17:36:37:

Posted by MattyB on 07/01/2020 17:08:15:

The remote ID requirements seem to apply only to RTF products, but the devil is in the detail and it wouldn't surprise me if UK legislators decided to move in the same direction as France where remote ID is required for anything over 250g outside certain recognised flying sites.

We should get an idea how things are going to go when the DfT respond to the Commons STC report. The report recommends that "The Government should ensure all drones, including existing drones, are electronically conspicuous within two years.".

All mine are visually conspicuous....now. Is the report assuming drone as in quadcopters or the correct usage and UAVs

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[cymaz]

I’ve got the reasoning behind the new EASA Regs! Here

[Andrew Hogg]

Hi, have a question, I live and fly models in Qatar, so have not bothered to get this license,

So, when I come visit the UK am I allowed to go and by a shiny new Wots Wot from my model shop or do I need the license to purchase any models, is it just to operate?

if you need before purchase then I know a couple of Qatar guy here who come over and spend 10 to 15 thousand on models each visit who will not be happy.

be safe

Andy