Diesel anybody?

[Chris Dobson 2]

Does anyone still fly diesel (compression ign) engines much?

If so, is the fuel available or is it mostly homebrew (and how difficult is diethyl ether to source)?

[Robin Colbourne]

Chris, If you fly free flight or control line, then you will find plenty of diesels in use. Go along to the Ebenezer Mass Launch Day at Old Warden next year, and you will see plenty. I'm sure there are people also using them for R/C too, perhaps not in their everyday hack though.

Model Technics and Southern Modelcraft both sell diesel fuel. Model Technics do three grades, D1000, D2000 & D3000, From their catalogue, ' Diesel Fuels D1000 is formulated for engines up to 1.5cc or as a running-in fuel for larger engines. D2000 is a general purpose fuel for engines over 1.5cc. D3000 is for high performance racing engines. ' Southern Modelcraft do a Sport and a High Performance mix.

Judging the by the prices diesels go for on ebay there are plenty of people who still want them, and not just for looking at. A DC Merlin that's a runner is likely to go for upwards of £30. PAW are still making new engines too, and diesel heads are still available for Cox Engines.

As well as here, Diesels have a strong following in Australia, Eastern Europe and even in the USA. Ex-pat Englishman Eric Clutton 'Dr Diesel' has encouraged a following Stateside.

[Tim Hooper]

Hi Chris,

I'm a a recent returnee to diesel power.

Like Robin says, the fuel is readily available - especially at the shows.

Diesel engines sell for premium prices on Ebay, I'm afraid, although if you're in a club and ask around, you can still get lucky and find them cheaply.

The big issue with most of the attic-finds is that they probably won't have an RC throttle fitted, whereas the new models by PAW, Weston UK and RedFin have an RC option.

Tim

 

PAW Antares

Edited By Tim Hooper on 06/07/2020 06:57:56

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Chris Dobson 2 on 06/07/2020 00:57:40:

Does anyone still fly diesel (compression ign) engines much?

If so, is the fuel available or is it mostly homebrew (and how difficult is diethyl ether to source)?

In the 'old days' long before elf and safety the local large chemist shop chain used to sell 'anaesthetic ether' to us 12-15 year olds without question when we told them we made toy planes, It cost next to nothing if we brought our own gallon cans. The castor oil was more expensive, and they even sold amyl nitrate or nitrite. Nowadays one of those two is used in 'poppers' and is almost impossible to obtain legally, but the other might be easier. I can't remember which is which. Don't fall for the web ads selling it as it's very unlikely to be genuine. The diesel fuel suppliers use some inferior stuff but it'a good enough for most purposes. The nitrates/nitrites  are not essential anyway though they may help with throttling, which was not a requirement in the 'old days'.

Paraffin was from the local petrol station. We mixed it in a bucket and poured it into whatever screw top bottles we had. (E D made a weird but ok diesel fuel that smelt of boot polish.)

The traditional 'day to day' fuel was equal parts of all three plus a small splash of amyl nitrate or nitrite if you were team racing. Some synthetic oil won't properly mix in diesel fuel and cheap motor oil almost certainl ywon't. Best just to use castor. It doesn't 'gum up' as much as with glows as diesels don't run as hot.

Commercially made diesel fuel is about twice the price of glow fuel and many model shop don't keep it in stock.

Engines. PAW. Don't rely on these Indian or Chinese copies or near copies  of 'classic' diesels with English sounding  names.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 06/07/2020 07:58:07

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 06/07/2020 08:30:11

[Jon H]

I am keen to build a little 2 channel diesel model. Its been ages since i had one and i do quite fancy it.

As i have numerous diesel engines to hand the hard part is working out which one to use!

[David Davis]

When I lived in England there was a bloke in my club who used nohing but PAW diesels. He designed all of his models which were all covered in the same shade of yellow film. He even had a twin enginned model and a canard.

[Peter Miller]

I do see that ether is available on Ebay. Not sure if it is suitable for fuel mixing....I never mixed my own.

It is a bit like acetone. For years I bought 500mil bottles from the chmists.Thenthey were not allowed tosell bigger than 50mil.

When I looked on Ebay the first listing was for a gallon bottle!!!

[gangster]

Oh that smell of diesel must have the same effect on many modellers of a certain age. The chuck and duck at the nationals is made even more special with that aroma.Years ago my friend and I flew control line at work We mixed our own diesel. Funny stuff because yours truly had a brain flip and bought Castrol R instead of M. Stained everything yellow. Ether was no problem and we had a litre of the stuff. One spring nice day we decided to have a fly so mixed some fuel oil no problem ether no problem but we had no paraffin. We did find a five gallon can of white spirit. Yes it worked well but my AM15 was inclined to run in bursts. Makes control line flying very interesting. We stuck however with the white spirit mix with castrol r

Edited By gangster on 06/07/2020 08:30:06

[paul d]

I fly diesels exclusively, I don't own any glows or electrics, fuels no problem, local model shop ( addlestone models) stock it, it's not cheap but as I only use small capacity engines it lasts ages.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Peter Miller on 06/07/2020 08:28:43:

I do see that ether is available on Ebay. Not sure if it is suitable for fuel mixing....I never mixed my own.

It is a bit like acetone. For years I bought 500mil bottles from the chmists.Thenthey were not allowed tosell bigger than 50mil.

When I looked on Ebay the first listing was for a gallon bottle!!!

You can get it from high street chemists but they like to faff around making phone calls to 'head office' asking if its ok or not. And it's not usually in stock so you have to wait a few days,

Shows? In 2020 what shows? And if they think I'm gong to pay a show entrance/parking fee so they can sell me things off the stalls they've got another think coming .

[J D 8]

I also do some diesel flying now and then. An original Mills P75 [ probably older than me ] in the Cardinal.

[Chris Dobson 2]

Ahhhh - the smell of Castrol R in the exhaust.

Somebody here has been known to add an eggcup full of Castor oil to the fuel tank of his motorbike: thinks he's at the Manx GP then

[martin collins 1]

Just built this 38.5 span Jodel from a 1955 aero modeler mag plan, this one is electric but i had two kits cut, the second will be for an 0.49 diesel for which the original free flight plan was for. Not had a diesel before but would like to give it a go, what is the best stuff for cleaning the model off after the fuel gets on it, covering will be doped Polyspan.

[Cuban8]

One man's meat etc.......but those that complain about the smell of petrol in their car/workshop can't have experienced the appalling Paraffin stink of concentrated diesel fuel exhaust residue. Ran a few small PAWs back in the day (still have a ME Heron in my cupboard) but the odour of sticky diesel exhaust chucked all over your model, on your hands, clothes and just about everywhere else it tends to get is the big show stopper for me. Nice engines and I'm not averse to the whiff of fresh diluted exhaust as a model goes by and I like to see and hear them run by others, but if anyone can come up with an answer to the pong, they're not for me.

 

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 06/07/2020 09:43:49

[extra slim]

In the spirit of variety, I have a couple of diesels amongst my fleet .. really good fun.. PAW 1.5 powered 2 channel

[Engine Doctor]

Southern model craft supply model diesel fuel . All Dave's fuels are competitively priced and good quality.

He also sells the ether if you wish to brew your own.

[Nigel R]

I'm with C8... I thought glow motors were smelly & messy enough!

Diesel has a definite niche following, the right engines fetch good money on the popular auction site.

I discovered a 0.6cc Pfeiffer in my engine drawer that I'll never use, if anyone is interested?

[Peter Miller]

I used to like the smell of diesel fuel but recently I did pit crew for aclub member and my cloths stankand I have gone off it.

[paul d]

I'd be interested Nigel! please pm me.

[Ray Wood 4]

Hi All,

I still love the smell it takes me back to the 60's now I'm in my sixties 😀

Regards Ray

[Cuban8]

On the subject of oily and smelly diesel exhaust residues..............is there any reason why synthetic oil cannot replace the castor that all commercial diesel fuels seem to contain - and how about using a much more refined and cleaner burning lamp oil in the fuel that's advertised as a replacement for use in smelly old green house heaters running on paraffin?

A fundamental engineering reason for sticking with the old familiar brew, or is it just a case of "we've always done it that way"?

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 06/07/2020 13:25:27

[Nigel R]

Weston diesel juice

"latest synthetic technology"

[paul d]

You can substitute paraffin for white spirit, kerosene or jet fuel, apparently white spirit smells far less once burnt.

Can't answer the oil question although I would only ever use castor as most of my engines are old and I feel it offers the best protection.

[Robin Colbourne]

Posted by Cuban8 on 06/07/2020 13:24:48:

On the subject of oily and smelly diesel exhaust residues..............is there any reason why synthetic oil cannot replace the castor that all commercial diesel fuels seem to contain - and how about using a much more refined and cleaner burning lamp oil in the fuel that's advertised as a replacement for use in smelly old green house heaters running on paraffin?

A fundamental engineering reason for sticking with the old familiar brew, or is it just a case of "we've always done it that way"?

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 06/07/2020 13:25:27

Cuban8, The purists would never have that. If you don't go home stinking of paraffin and castor, the missus will think you have another woman...

Control line team race fliers have a vested interest in using the fuel which gives the most power and economy. Clearly from this article, Team Race Fuel Mix there is experimentation with synthetic oils, however it must be remembered that the engines we are likely to use are designed for castor and operate at higher compression ratios than a glow engine.

As for the cleaner burning paraffins, I don't know; it would be worth a trial.

The best bet in the short term, is to use a diesel with a well made exhaust and a tube to deflect the residue away from the airframe. The control line fliers in my club also use a long flexible tube on the cab inlet to reduce te risk of dirt ingestion. This would also reduce the amount of fuel spraying out of the carb at certain throttle settings. When not in use, if you bung the tank fill and vent pipes and plug the carb and exhaust, it should keep the gunge and smell in the model when it is in the car and house.
 

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 06/07/2020 13:59:01

[Doug Campbell]

I have used mineral oils, synthetic oils, and also white spirit. Fortunately with all these variations the diesel perfume lingers for days in the car to remind you of the flying session you had.