Former Member Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cardona Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 Posted by Doc Marten on 22/10/2020 11:43:30: Posted by Cuban8 on 22/10/2020 10:40:09: I'm a big fan of Flair Models and built quite a few of them back in the Days when Dudley Pattison owned the firm. I wonder who owns the rights to the designs now? In particular the Scout series of which the excellent Puppeteer is but one. Is someone sitting on the designs? I'd have thought someone like Sarik would have plan packs flying out of the doors, when one considers the interest in the designs and how much kits and less than perfect used examples command when advertised. I know we sometimes bemoan the state of the hobby, but I really think that there are healthy signs of building your own models again showing up now. I did actually say all this to Dean (the former owner) just before he wrapped it all up, he basically said that he'd been let down too many times by modelers enthusiastically suggesting producing kits because they would be snapped up only to find that they would sit on the shelves waiting for him to reduce the price down to the point of loss making because they could buy cheaper from China. The irony is that now they have ceased trading his kits are being sold for more than they were new! We only have ourselves to blame on this one. P.s -The Mannock is a good call. Edited By Doc Marten on 22/10/2020 11:45:04 I don't remember very well how much they were when I first started the hobby, it was more than 10 years ago, but I do remember well that a Club Member had a Flair Fokker D7, I remember very fell how it flew gracefully and in a very slow Scale manner, it was fairly detailed but at the same time simple and it looked fairly simple to build. At that time I wasn't very enthusiast to try to build a Biplane as one wing was even enough to make lol I knew they were expensive kits at that time, I remember I always checked into Sussex model center to see how much it would cost me to ship to Malta but unfortunately I had other priorities and couldn't afford to get one. years passed and unfortunately, it happened what it happened, they are no longer produced, But a Year Ago I was lucky to find a Fokker D7 kit on Ebay, I don't remember if it was bidding or buy it now but I sad to myself or now or never it was even complete with the accessory machine guns and wheels, and bought it very close to 300euros. It's still there on the shelf waiting, the first thing I would do for sure make templates of all the parts and I have a laser 75 and an 80 to power it. I didn't start yet because I'm finishing a Sig Smith mini plane at the moment, and I wanted a ww1 era biplane of similar size and the SE5 was also in my mind. They might be expensive but very well made and well-thought designs, buying cheaper from China? never really remembered to see SE5 or Fokker Kits from China, and if they were I'm sure they were awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 We only have ourselves to blame on this one. I agree 100%. Daniel. I am most surprised that Derick hasn't answered your email. He is usually very quick to answer messages. P.M. me with your email address and I will get him to reply to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cardona Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 Posted by kevin b on 22/10/2020 12:41:10: We only have ourselves to blame on this one. I agree 100%. Daniel. I am most surprised that Derick hasn't answered your email. He is usually very quick to answer messages. P.M. me with your email address and I will get him to reply to you. P.M Sent, Thanks Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 As I recall there was ( in the past ) much discussion about whether the CG marked on the Flair plan was OK or not. Dudley insisted it was right others who built one disagreed. I think the discussion centred around where the top wing actually fitted. If you do get a Flair kit then when it's built check for yourself to see if the CG seems right by calculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Posted by Daniel Cardona on 21/10/2020 18:33:04: Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 21/10/2020 15:54:55: Flair kits are pretty rare these days and usually sell for silly prices, far more than they are worth. Although its a tiny bit smaller the super flying model se5a is a good alternative and well priced. Fit a small 4 stroke (a 40 would be plenty) or equivalent 2 stroke/electric and you would have a really nice little model. I tempted myself as i have a nieuport 17, pup, and fokker DR1 so the se5a would complete my set! I took a look at the super flying models SE5a but I'm not entirely convinced. it looks a bit fiddly to my liking, plus I don't know they say that it's good for a.60 four-stroke right on their box. I agree with you that a .40 to 45 would be plenty, maybe a 52 max. it looks that it's designed more for electric. another alternative would be a Balsa USA kit but a 1/4 scale is too much, you would need a big engine for that size. If being fiddly is a problem then forget the flair kit. My dad is currently building one (for the last 20 years!) and so much of it is out of date that it makes things much more difficult. Its not a modern design and it really shows, the quality of the die cut lite ply ribs is also pretty poor. I suspect the SFM kit would actually be better quality but have not seen one up close. Anyway a saito 45 will fly my dads when it is finally done. As for 1/4 scale, a 180 4 stroke would be plenty so you dont need to go mad with a monster engine. At 1/4 it will be a delight to fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Fairweather 1 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I wish I'd seen this post earlier, on Monday I put a set of plans , along with lots of other bits and pieces, in for recycling. I do however have the nose moulding, cabanes, uc wires etc and the decal set all pristine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 We are where we are with firms like Flair and I'm sure we could fill many posts pointing the finger and blaming XY&Z given our own theories. The point is that there is an increasing demand from people who have had their fill of ready builts and crave for something else more individual. There's only so much foam that anyone can take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Kremen Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Increasing demand perhaps C8, but insufficient to keep afloat a business unless they run it as a labour of love. Meanwhile, I too have offered Daniel (who resides in Malta), the possibility of Flair SE5a plan copies at cost. They consist of two(2) very large sheets. (My local copy shop normally charges circa £10 - £15 for that size). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 If it's any encouragement, Daniel, my SE5A was built from the kit plan. I had the kit many years ago and it flew well on an OS40 Surpass. It got sold on but I kept the plan, which was used a few years ago to build an electric version. This flies just as well as the original on a 3s setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cardona Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 Posted by Trevor Crook on 22/10/2020 17:19:20: If it's any encouragement, Daniel, my SE5A was built from the kit plan. I had the kit many years ago and it flew well on an OS40 Surpass. It got sold on but I kept the plan, which was used a few years ago to build an electric version. This flies just as well as the original on a 3s setup. looks magnificent Trevor, my question is, How did you manage to build it with only the Plan? Flair as like other's kit builders usually doesn't draw the formers or ribs for making your own kit of parts. Their plans are more like a guide in order to build the model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 A few weeks ago I noticed that iGull laser cutters listed ribs and some parts for one of the Flair kits - either the SE5 or Pupeteer. I think it was described as 'alternative ' or ' replacement ' At the moment the site is shut down until 25th - worth checking next week. Lots of other laser cut parts for well known designs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cardona Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 Posted by kc on 22/10/2020 17:50:55: A few weeks ago I noticed that iGull laser cutters listed ribs and some parts for one of the Flair kits - either the SE5 or Pupeteer. I think it was described as 'alternative ' or ' replacement ' At the moment the site is shut down until 25th - worth checking next week. Lots of other laser cut parts for well known designs too. Man, I love this Hobby and the Forum! everyone is so helpful. I've just taken a peek at iGull.co.uk and guess what....the flair SE5a is on their list. now i down know what parts are offering but they are out until the 25th Oct. I wait and see. Regards Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Colbourne Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 If anyone wants a Mannock, there's an unflown one here DB Mannock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Neil Gillies, who runs iGull is a good supplier. I've dealt with him for various things over the years (even some software to change the name on my Multiplex 3030) so I'd be quite confident any CNC parts he supplies will be of good quality. I have a set for a competition 2m eglider designed by a club member which I really should build! After reading this it's making me think of refurbishing my own Flair SE5a. It's the 3rd or 4th model I ever built and I fitted an OS52 Surpass. I don't recall the build being very tricky apart from fitting the curved fuselage top between the cabanes. It flies very well but it's years since it took to the air.. If I do start a refurb I'll change a few things. Convert to electric (I have a suitable motor in stock); have separate aileron servos; change the top wing mount to be more like my DB Moths and similarly the interplane strut attachment. The main disadvantage of the Flair SE5a is the long-winded assembly at the field and adopting the DB methods will overcome that. Geoff Edited By Geoff S on 22/10/2020 22:12:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cardona Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Posted by Geoff S on 22/10/2020 22:11:56: Neil Gillies, who runs iGull is a good supplier. I've dealt with him for various things over the years (even some software to change the name on my Multiplex 3030) so I'd be quite confident any CNC parts he supplies will be of good quality. I have a set for a competition 2m eglider designed by a club member which I really should build! After reading this it's making me think of refurbishing my own Flair SE5a. It's the 3rd or 4th model I ever built and I fitted an OS52 Surpass. I don't recall the build being very tricky apart from fitting the curved fuselage top between the cabanes. It flies very well but it's years since it took to the air.. If I do start a refurb I'll change a few things. Convert to electric (I have a suitable motor in stock); have separate aileron servos; change the top wing mount to be more like my DB Moths and similarly the interplane strut attachment. The main disadvantage of the Flair SE5a is the long-winded assembly at the field and adopting the DB methods will overcome that. Geoff Edited By Geoff S on 22/10/2020 22:12:45 It all depends what he offers as a Kit, if the wing ribs only for example or a complete kit, will see and decide from there. does every model club in UK is converting to electric nowadays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Daniel, I got my father-in-law to build my SE5 structure, I did the covering and installation. I don't remember him having problems with the formers, I'll see if I can find the plan to remind myself what is shown! Both clubs I am in are 90% electric power, I ditched the oily stuff about 10 years ago. For traditional "club" sized models I find electric power to have far more advantages than downsides, unless operating a model engine is part of the hobby for you. I like to just get on and fly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Philbrick Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I have a set of wing ribs for a puppeteer from igull and they are really good quality. It will be my winter project as I have the original plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Dyer Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I don't want to rub it in, but being an Flair SE nerd, I have two kits: complete with wheels, guns etc. I have one flying (O.S 52) flying and im building an electric one now. You can get a set of ribs and plywood parts from fleabay. And if you want the plan I will send you one. The rest (apart from cabanes) is cut balsa/ pky. Cheers Maury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cardona Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Does anyone knows if Igull makes also the fuselage formers etc , apart from the wing ribs? regards Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cardona Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Bdw guys, I know it’ out of subject but since there are many of you who love the the Flair brand I couldn’t resist the temptation to share it with you. here is the review of the Flair Fokker D7 from RCME June 1994. the model was very well loved and with a whopping price of £78.95. happy days. regards daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I think my Flair SE5a was about £80 or just under back in 1995/6 when I was just getting into aeromodelling after I took the proverbial early bath from work I think the OS52 Surpass I fitted was around £150. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave parnham Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 i loved my D7 also built with the same colour scheme too. I Just watched a flair baronette go on ebay this afternoon my bid of £87 soon sky rocketed to £160 dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cardona Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Posted by dave parnham on 23/10/2020 20:37:11: i loved my D7 also built with the same colour scheme too. I Just watched a flair baronette go on ebay this afternoon my bid of £87 soon sky rocketed to £160 dave Haha I also bid for that same flair baronette , I was at work a bid up to £107 but I was quickly outbidded. I lost interest a saved the money for another opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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