Forum - just a thought

[Rich too]

I’ve noticed recently a lot of deleted posts from ex-forum members. It often leaves threads and the information in them, incomplete. Do they have to be deleted?

Another minor query, are there plans for a mobile app for the forum? When I look at the forum on my phone it is impossible (well difficult ) to read and use.

otherwise, thanks for the great place to come and discuss things with other modellers - it’s probably the most friendly forum I’ve ever used 👍

 

ps I’ve just noticed there’s an app for the mag, but appears to be for subs only

Edited By Rich too on 18/01/2021 06:21:57

Edited By Rich too on 18/01/2021 06:23:22

[GrumpyGnome]

Hi Rich

I suspect that GDPR (previously data protection act) is the issue. One of the principals is that certain information will need to be deleted hen someone leaves/requests it, but identifying that data would mean someone reading every post they made, and editing some. Pretty labour intensive!

Re mag viewer, I believe you need to subscribe to print and digital to access them.

Totally agree re a mobile version.

GG

[Brian Sweeting 1]

Sadly when some people decide to leave the forum they do so under a self imposed cloud and want all evidence of their existence removed.

[John Wagg]

I understand that when someone leaves the forum they can request that all their posts be deleted. I would expect it to be a simple process for the forum controllers to press a few buttons to accomplish this. ??

[Nigel R]

I asked once - "right to be forgotten"

I expect it is fully impractical to sort through all the posts to separate anything that can be used to personally identify someone.

[John Lee]

Discussed in some detail in this thread

[kc]

Deleting posts makes the forum unreadable in many cases so should not be done unless forced by law. Perhaps something in the forum small print could require anyone leaving to specify their requirement in writing in triplicate etc etc to make it less easy to just leave in a huff!

Or easier still just take their name off but leave the postings!

[Peter Jones 21]

People get banned, it happened to a friend of mine, then the GDPR kicks in and that leaves the blank spaces.

My friend holds strong views based upon life experiance and shares those views, it can get someone banned quite easily.

[Nigel R]

Posted by John Lee on 18/01/2021 11:16:25:

Discussed in some detail in this thread

Ironically, even the thread discussing people leaving the forum and having their posts deleted, has suffered from people leaving the forum and having their posts deleted..!

[conrad taggart]

is it possible to just change your user name - former member1, former member 2 etc

[Peter Jones 21]

Posted by Nigel R on 18/01/2021 13:56:42:

Posted by John Lee on 18/01/2021 11:16:25:

Discussed in some detail in this thread

Ironically, even the thread discussing people leaving the forum and having their posts deleted, has suffered from people leaving the forum and having their posts deleted..!

Why are they leaving?

[Rich Griff]

There usually is a "delete all "this members " posts, a single press of a button and the computer does all the work. A dangerous button so be real carefully.

There can be many reasons people move, from unfair admin, double standards etc. to people just had enough.

Me, I need this place to learn and ask advise, particularly about 2.4 radio. batteries ( that burst into flames ! ) and electric flight.

I have been banned from a particular forum ( not model flying related ) twice, for daring to suggest free speech within reason, and stating "you've done that wrong, it's on backwards"

All the other members said nothing, meaning either they did not see what I saw in the picture, or or not know ( most likely ), or just didn't care. They all said what a good job he was doing, but it's on backwards I said.

No good deed goes unpunished.

[GrumpyGnome]

Hi KC

The law you are referring to is GDPR, and as someone says, one of it's principals is the right to be forgotten. Having spent 2 years implementing GDPR in a large financial institution, you opt out suggestion sadly does not work. And even if it could, would increase the burden on admins as they would need to record who had/had not signed, and when they signed, so that posts could/could not, be kept if they exercise the right to be forgotten.

Sadly (or maybe not) GDPR has many consequences and must have cost billions to implement, with an ongoing annual cost of millions, to thousands of companies/organisations.

GG

Edited By GrumpyGnome on 18/01/2021 18:37:41

[kc]

By GDPR I presume you mean ' General Data Protection Regulation ' and it makes forums also unreadable if initals are used instead of the full wording!

It seems to me that data protection laws fail to protect MY data - I keep getting mail which has been sent to me because some firm knows my personal info and sends me personalised advertising stuff. Yet the laws that don't protect me are being used to stop helpful hints & knowledge being kept on the forum! Crazy!

It would be interesting to know if anyone could insist on their names being removed from the online copies of RCME on this forum if they become 'former members' ( some forum members also contribute to RCME )    Whats the difference?

Edited By kc on 18/01/2021 19:33:07

[Rich too]

I get that but GDPR doesn’t have to be an issue. sure, remove names but the posts should remain - include it in the Ts & Cs. The threads are a resource  for the forum and future users. The worst offenders are when threads are old and photos are no longer visible (not necessarily this forum) and the thread becomes pointless. It’s ridiculous in this day and age.

It’s not just this forum. 

 

Edited By Rich too on 18/01/2021 19:35:19

Edited By Rich too on 18/01/2021 19:35:58

[kc]

I thought I read in this forums 'small print' that the forum gains the copyright of anything posted. Maybe my memory is wrong - its so many years ago i signed up and looked at the terms.

However it does mean that one should save any useful forum items to ones own computer to be sure to have it in future. If only I had saved that really useful info on foam models provided by a former member who experimented and posted his recommended construction methods. All that remains now are my questions but his answers are lost!

In the same manner one should save to computer all those online plans that seem useful but might disappear at any time. Yesterday i found all the links to aerobatic plans had disappeared! Good job I had already downloaded all those plans i like - I must save them to a memory stick as well as CD!

[Phil McCavity]

I can't really see what you're trying to change here, regardless of forum rules the law will always override them and all public forums must abide by it, GDPR is the law and if 'former members' wish to erase their 'former presence' then there's nothing can be done about it. I've done it myself on a forum where I found them to be rude, patronizing, overly confrontational and cliquey when a few members and admin took it upon themselves to troll and flame me, I was only there a reasonably short time but posted a lot a helpful and useful material, I saw my posts as my property so had them removed, a shame for future members and the silent majority but that's up to the remaining members to resolve instead of sitting in silence and allowing it to happen. This is the new normal I'm afraid with regards to social media, people insist on their privacy and human rights so GDPR was introduced in response to those crys.

Edited By Phil McCavity on 18/01/2021 20:04:38

[Rich too]

Exactly, that’s my point. I often search the net for photos when I have an issue with a car, and I come across the answers posted on forums and the photos are long gone which makes the threads useless. It’s also an issue where the photos are not uploaded but linked to a different site.

Some forums that I use also charge a small fee for membership which I do not mind.

Hey Ho

Edited By Rich too on 19/01/2021 05:50:19

Edited By Rich too on 19/01/2021 05:51:31

[Pete B]

I'll just repeat what I posted in the thread linked to in posts above:

Just to be clear, the only posts a moderator would remove are those which would breach the Code of Conduct. I cannot think of any circumstances where we would arbitrarily delete a member's entire posting history - we know only too well how much it disrupts the flow of threads. Deletion of content is only ever at the specific request of the member - and, believe me, we always try to dissuade them....

That principle still stands. On the (fortunately very rare indeed) occasions when we are left with no alternative but to ban a member, the default position is that all that member's posts remain intact and remain available for all to view. Most just walk away and put it behind them but a few, either through principle or spite or for whatever other reasons, demand that their contributions to the forum be obliterated. As I mention above, we do try to dissuade them and give them some time to think it over, but where they are adamant we have no choice.

The deletion process is multi-step, with checks built in, so it cannot happen by accident. It's not something we take pleasure in doing, but that's the way it is. The 'Former Member' posts which remain are annoying but when you realise that there may be many hundreds, or even thousands of posts, from a prolific member, deletion of each individual post is unrealistic.

In respect of missing photos, I recall many threads being disrupted a few years back when Photobucket, which hosted a lot of forum pics, introduced an unrealistic subscription fee and we lost many thread photos. That too was beyond our control.

Pete

[Rich too]

Thanks Pete, I did not know that they are only removed if requested. Is it not possible to change the T&Cs ?

[Pete B]

Posted by Rich too on 19/01/2021 21:00:45:

Thanks Pete, I did not know that they are only removed if requested. Is it not possible to change the T&Cs ?

I'm no legal eagle but I'm pretty sure the GDPR trumps the T&Cs......

Pete

[MattyB]

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 19/01/2021 21:22:08:

Posted by Rich too on 19/01/2021 21:00:45:

Thanks Pete, I did not know that they are only removed if requested. Is it not possible to change the T&Cs ?

I'm no legal eagle but I'm pretty sure the GDPR trumps the T&Cs......

Pete

This appears to be an eminently solvable problem to me. There is nothing to stop the T&Cs being tweaked to state that a) members must not post personal information (name, address, email address, phone number etc) anywhere publicly viewable on the site, and b) they cede their copyright to anything posted at the point of posting (lots of forums do this). That does not mean that the member cannot exercise their rights under GDPR regarding their personal information (all posts would still need to be anonymised), but it would mean they cannot demand the deletion of all non-personal information making a nonsense of historical threads. For a detailed discussion between legal eagles on this topic read this thread.

Whilst there is no case law I am aware of to provide proof that the above approach is correct, I have also failed to find any evidence of any successful prosecution of a forum owner for contravention of GDPR regulations. We are now getting on for 2.5 years since the regs came in, so that would seem to be telling. Personally I would say the risk to forum owners of being successfully prosecuted under GDPR regs by a user is effectively zero as long as they anonymise their accounts on exit and ensure the T&Cs cover the copyright of non-personal content submitted. In the unlikley event that a user did bring a prosecution the forum owner could always climb down at that point and delete all the users posts if they felt that was the right option in that specific instance.

In summary I suspect the risk to the forum of losing users (and therefore eyeballs and ad revenue) due to over moderation or deleting content is greater than the risk of prosecution under GDPR, but ultimately it is the site owners viewpoint that counts - as users we have no choice but to use the site according to their rules or go elsewhere.

Edited By MattyB on 20/01/2021 17:44:43

[Phil McCavity]

Posted by MattyB on 20/01/2021 17:11:59:

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 19/01/2021 21:22:08:

Posted by Rich too on 19/01/2021 21:00:45:

Thanks Pete, I did not know that they are only removed if requested. Is it not possible to change the T&Cs ?

I'm no legal eagle but I'm pretty sure the GDPR trumps the T&Cs......

Pete

This appears to be an eminently solvable problem to me. There is nothing to stop the T&Cs being tweaked to state that a) members must not post personal information (name, address, email address, phone number etc) anywhere publicly viewable on the site, and b) they cede their copyright to anything posted at the point of posting (lots of forums do this). That does not mean that the member cannot exercise their rights under GDPR regarding their personal information (all posts would still need to be anonymised), but it would mean they cannot demand the deletion of all non-personal information making a nonsense of historical threads. For a detailed discussion between legal eagles on this topic read this thread.

I'll be open and say that I wouldn't join any forum where I was forced to relinquish what I consider to be my property and on loan whilst I remain there and I dare say I'm not alone in thinking like this.

In my case I posted for the benefit of other members not the forum owner and was harassed by a clique and the admin, why should that forum be allowed to continue to benefit from my time and input when they forced me out? It's like being in rent free accommodation, the landlord and tenants bullying you out of it and keeping all your baggage when you make the decision leave. Keep it as it is, times have changed, attitudes have changed either roll with it or suffer the damage.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Interesting points Matty. Especially as the vast majority of troublesome users never use their real name, never leave any personal data yet always insist that their 'data' is removed. In practice of course there's no 'personal' data held for these people.

It's something I've been meaning to address but have held off while the new site platform and forum software are in preparation. I need to see what tools are available going forward.

Edited By David Ashby - Moderator on 21/01/2021 10:19:50

[Stephen Jones]

So would are user names have to change,

To something none personnel.

Like Balsa Basher, Foam fighter

Steve,