RAF's Finest Biplane? Hawker Fury MkI

[Guvnor]

Posted by Danny Fenton on 15/09/2017 18:41:51:

It is not to save a few quid, it is a matter of principle!

What principle?

You have no idea how hard a lot of people worked to try and avoid what happened.

And you have no idea how hard people are working to get the kits, plans and parts back up and available.

Whover cuts the 'alternative' kit should be ashamed. One day it might be you in trouble...

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

The joys of modelling eh ?

You've no idea how much Dannys spent or supported Traplet over the years, mind your own business.

[Guvnor]

Posted by john stones 1 on 15/09/2017 19:03:05:

The joys of modelling eh ?

You've no idea how much Dannys spent or supported Traplet over the years, mind your own business.

I rest my case.

How sad...

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Guvnor on 15/09/2017 19:05:41:

Posted by john stones 1 on 15/09/2017 19:03:05:

The joys of modelling eh ?

You've no idea how much Dannys spent or supported Traplet over the years, mind your own business.

I rest my case.

How sad...

Good.

[McG 6969]

Hi all,

I totally agree with Danny's opinion about basic deontological 'principles'.

It would have been quite different if the 'new' Sarik management wasn't exactly the same as the former Traplet ones.

As mentioned here before, they could have take the responsibility to honour their 'latest' orders to us and thus creating a kind of 'confidence' to their new venture.

@ Guvnor > the model industry might be in crisis to a certain point, but as top-level managers of a multi-continental publishing institution one could/should be aware of the 'problems' one's facing...

Apologies for being 'personal' here, but your post wasn't really 'constructive'... and I think that's what The Class is going for at this very moment...

Cheers

Chris

[Martian]

I thought all the vitriol was left behind no need to drag it back to the front all that's been happening recently is some very worthy attempts to keep the project on track I for one an grateful for all the attemps to do so thank you guys

[Martyn K]

Quote
You have no idea how hard a lot of people worked to try and avoid what happened.

And you have no idea how hard people are working to get the kits, plans and parts back up and available.

Whover cuts the 'alternative' kit should be ashamed. One day it might be you in trouble...

I am intrigued how you know so much about the resurrection of thevex Traplet kit business. Do you have an interest in the new Sarik venture?

I am 100% with Danny on this. I am approaching retirement and i placed orders for two complete sets totalling just less than ?300. I am not wealthy but i paid by Debit card. There is no guarantee that i will get refunded and anyway, why should the bank refund me for what was an honourable transaction. The modelling industry is small in the scheme of things and the outstanding orders should have been processed, not because there was an obligation to do so but as a gesture of good will.

Its not us that should be ashamed, its Sarik directors, they must have known the company was in a mess but still continued to accept orders even though they would never get completed.

[Paul C.]

Martyn, well said 👍

Paul.

[Colin Leighfield]

This is all feeling a bit uncomfortable isn't it? I suppose I've been around too long but I'm hesitant to vilify people even when things on their behalf look pretty black because I'm not in their shoes and don't know what quandaries they were faced with at the time. Also because although directors have a responsibility to cease trading if the business is clearly unviable, that situation can alter in a day based on circumstances and up to the minute that it becomes absolutely clear they also have a duty to run the business profitably as best they can.

When I 'phoned Sarik after the news of the insolvency and spoke to Kevin, I wasn't happy to hear that assets only had been acquired and that outstanding orders placed with Traplet wouldn't be honoured. He made clear his understanding that those creditors would be reimbursed by the credit card companies and therefore wouldn't lose out. I have been so from that point of view have come out without financial loss. I can understand though that any who have paid by other means might not be in that position and rightfully are aggrieved. Certainly Martyn must feel pretty upset and I hope that there is some solution for him and anyone else in that position.

What we don't know is the magnitude of the cost to Sarik of honouring outstanding Traplet orders. Ours are probably a pretty small part of it and how do they differentiate? I'm certainly not in the business of making excuses but I also think that if they pack it in or go under our hobby won't be better off as a consequence, it would be thoroughly bad news. It seems to me that anybody that runs a business like that must have some interest in the hobby because as a hard-headed choice of potentially lucrative business ventures this is unlikely to be a natural choice. Therefore I don't see them as pathological "wide boys".

The last thing that I want to do is alienate or fall out with anyone over this. It is my attempt to look at it in a balanced way while we think carefully about what we do.

Edited By Colin Leighfield on 16/09/2017 08:17:46

Edited By Colin Leighfield on 16/09/2017 08:19:11

[Nev]

Hi.

If anybody did use a debit card for the parts and hasn't done it yet. Make a claim to your bank or card company under the chargeback scheme, KC posted a link to an advice web site on page 14.

It's not a legal requirement, more of a code of conduct but I made a claim to my bank using their online claim form and got paid back in about a week.

Nev.

 

[Andy Sephton 1]

We're going way off topic here, but I feel I must add my two-pennyworth! I ordered a set of parts, plan, cowling, spinner and 3-view from Traplett. My issue is that they took the money from my account when they clearly didn't have the goods in stock. They filed for insolvency some ten days after my order...which didn't appear. Yes, I got the money back into my account via my credit card company. However, I find the practice of taking money when you can't supply what was ordered unacceptable. What I would call reputable companies take the money when they have the goods ready for issue. Whether or not Sarik has the same business philosophy, I do not know...but I don't like to be bitten twice by the same bug!

So, where do we go from here? I, for one, fully support Danny's initiatives and will give him all the help I can. The project will go ahead in spite of what has happened and not because of it!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

My twopenneth again.

Stop explaining yourselfs and get on and order from wherever you think fit, the dust will settle on this, get on and enjoy your project.

[2W]

Is there a lawyer in the house? If I take the drawings of a true scale model, trace them, make some modifications and send them to a company to be turned into a set of cut parts because I don’t like the details of the original design, does this infringe any copyright? Are we not free to order a set of cut parts from whomsoever we wish?

Starting from scratch to design a 1/6^th scale model of a 30ft wing span plane, one is fairly limited in how it could be built strong enough, but light enough to fly well, and the Bryant design is one way it can be done for the Fury. The method he uses of a core fuselage structure is not uncommon, and the skin structure is a logical finishing technique. However, the plan could be updated to use light ply for the rear formers, and a lighter method of construction of the tail feathers could prove beneficial to the C of G.

Personally, I don’t like the method of fixing the top wing to the fuselage, clever though it is, and this too could be changed, but I have no views on how it could be done better.

I would support a mass order from Danny, SLEC, Balsa Cabin or whoever gives the best price for good quality components and materials.

William

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Guys thanks for the votes of confidence I much appreciate it.

Several of you have made some very good points, and I leave it to your own judgemeant what you wish to do. The build will go ahead as Andy says, even if if we have to cut our own parts.

Those that want to modify the plan then that is fine but I think, for the benefit of those that are stretching their building ability, it might be better for at least one of us to build the model or parts more or less as Dennis intended?

Perhaps those that have the Sarik laser cut parts would like to comment on the materials used for the bulkheads etc, have they been altered and of lite ply for example? I will probably substitute lighter material in some areas, but the outline will remain as per the plan.

It is a good job I set the start date as Oct 2018 !!! We might actually have some parts by then

Cheers

Danny

[Colin Leighfield]

Commonsense from John Stones as always! As Danny points out there's plenty of time to work out our best options and the dust needs to settle a little anyway. I haven't looked at the plan yet but expect that, differently to the Chipmunk, I won't be looking to make significant alterations. The exception will be in the case of the single leg undercarriage associated with the (better)? Spanish Fury. It occurs to me that the paint scheme also means I won't need to bash any litho-plate and although I've got some, I'll save it for something else.

[Jose L. G.]

​Good morning,

​I´ve been following with interest the project. I did not ordered any parts yet.

​I Would like the plan, ñ

laser cut parts /Wood, hinges and metal brackets), cowl and vacuuinner.

​I´ve been supporting Traplet in the past (also a suscriber for QEFI, changed to RCMW when QEFI ceased).

Cheers,

Jose L. G.

Spain

[John Timmis]

Hi Danny

Sorry for the late reply.

Re the bits: please put me down for a hinge set & a vac form spinner. There is lots of time to cut out the wooden bits,most of the ribs are identical profile. Can cut the brass bits myself & will probably do a wooden cowling.

Cheers John.

[Richard Mallam.]

This is first post for me, so hello to all.

I picked up a set of plans / woodpack / cowl and spinner today from Sarik. From what I can see so far, all seems to be OK, except for the spinner which is clearly a bit oversize as it meets the cowl. Kevin has said that he is committed to finding a solution, but is away on leave at the moment.

I also bought a supply of sheet balsa and ply, which seemed to be good quality. Am told that they get it from SLEC.

They seem to be committed to continuing the Traplet business with no change. The original owner of Traplet seems to be still involved somehow.

Richard

[McG 6969]

Posted by Jose L. G. on 18/09/2017 10:36:57:

​Good morning,

​I´ve been following with interest the project. I did not ordered any parts yet.

​I Would like the plan, ñ

laser cut parts /Wood, hinges and metal brackets), cowl and vacuuinner.

​I´ve been supporting Traplet in the past (also a suscriber for QEFI, changed to RCMW when QEFI ceased).

Cheers,

Jose L. G.

Spain

Holá Jose,

Welcome to the 'loco' Fury Classroom.

As nobody answered you since your post, I think the Fury Masters must be very busy to resolve some of the 'inherent' problems that you must have been reading.

I guess you will have to be a little patient to see some progress being communicated, but I'm convinced that Danny & his wing-men will very soon come with an appropriate solution.

Stay with us, young man.

Cheers & hasta mas tarde

Chris

Brussels, Belgium

[McG 6969]

Apologies, Richard, I just saw your post too late after posting to Jose.

Welcome to The Classroom too, of course. 

Please don't forget that Danny asked a few days/posts ago to provide him some info about the 'quality' and the kind of wood - ie ply, liteply, balsa? - used in the recent Sarik laser cut parts. 

Cheers

Chris

 

Edited By McG 6969 on 20/09/2017 19:34:30

[Martin Fane]

Danny

Unwrapped my woodpack today.

Wood (balsa and liteply) quality looks good and feels fairly light.

Cutting is very clean and parts release nicely.

Tried a couple of ribs against the plan and the shapes are accurate.

Weighed a few balsa sheets as follows:

All the cut part sheet lengths are either 18" or 22" long, by pairing up various sheets:

1/8 4" x 36 varied between 35 and 51 grammes.

3/16 4" x 44" 44grammes.

1/16 4" x 44" between 20 and 22 grammes

All the balsa was straight.

The 1/8 ply sheet had a slight bow.

Hope this helps.

Martin

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Chaps, I have been working away from home for a few days, only just catching up. Thanks for the information Martin.

So they/Sarik have changed the plywood for cheaper lite ply. That is a good move in the right areas, but not necessarily if it is all now lite ply?

Can you clarify if all the ply is now lite ply, or just some of it??

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 21/09/2017 23:25:29

[Richard Mallam.]

Thanks Chris.

I concur with Martin's comments re the balsa in the pack.

The ply is all Birch and is either 1.5 or 3mm.

Richard

[Danny Fenton]

Thanks Richard, but Martin says the ply is lite ply?? That is not "real" ply in my books....

[Richard Mallam.]

OK Danny - am sure that you are right. Does this have any implications for the build?

Richard