Christopher Wolfe Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Well done Toto, enjoy Cyprus as I did many years ago. When teaching students to fly I used to take off and teach them the basics until they could handle the aircraft proficiently around the traditional left hand circuit and then repeat the exercise with right hand circuits (much more difficult for right hand dominant people imho). The next thing that I taught them was how to land precisely on the strip using throttle and elevator to control altitude and speed. This was before I taught them to take-off. My logic for this (as I explained to my students) was that I can teach you to take off and fly around the sky but all this is wasted if you don't know how to land. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 Thanks Christopher, I will enjoy .... counting down the days now. Yes ..... the landing... that could be fun...... and a good rush of blood to the head All the fun of the fair Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, toto said: Thanks Christopher, I will enjoy .... counting down the days now. Yes ..... the landing... that could be fun...... and a good rush of blood to the head All the fun of the fair Toto Dont stress to much about landing. A well trimmed plane on a calm day will virtually land itself, but the ground looming causes panic and over control when your a beginner. Your instructor will guide through the process so try to relax(easier said than done). Well done for your progression so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 Many thanks Learner. I probably have a few weeks before that kicks in anyway. I'll have the theory sorted out in my head before then. I like to try and be one step ahead by being able to visualise what I'm trying to accomplish prior to my instructor prepping me to actually doing it in practice. That way I am half way there and dont have as much to try and take in on the day. Even though a bit wary of the lending, I am still nervously looking forward to it as it's another task " coming into play ". Hopefully once I have the circuits, take off's landings etc all into one big daily routine, that's when the real progression kicks in and once I am able to demonstrate an acceptable level of proficiency, can start going solo. The big benefit of that is ..... not being able to say that I'm trainer free, but to simply be able to click up more time practicing without having to rely on others as heavily. What I will be able to do is once I work out where my particular weaknesses are , I can concentrate instructor time on these particular tasks. Anyway ..... enough for now ..... that's for my return. Cheers Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) Don't beat yourself up too much over getting landings 100% perfect each and every time. Some pilots have a knack for it, seemingly getting a greaser every time without any effort and others who do alright but make the occasional blunder. Just look at some of the shockers to be found on Youtube with models worth thousands! After over 50 years of flying a wide range of models to a reasonable standard, I still don't always land consistently to a standard that I'd like. I don't crash, but for some reason and with knowledge of all the preparation and approach techniques, the result is sometimes a bit bumpy and not satisfying. Slowing reactions with age don't help either. I guess one could write a thesis on landing model aircraft, but essentially, keep up with the model, try to be proactive rather than reactive - stick to a good approach and abort if things go out of shape - landing too slow can be just as problematic as landing too fast. Better to over-run than drag the model in and stall from height short of the runway. A very smooth flyer gave me some good advice many years ago regarding landings. "to make a good landing....don't land". An odd thing to say, on the face of it, but what he meant was rushing the very final round-out and not holding off for a short time just before the wheels sink and touch will always make the model bounce. Very true, if you can master the timing (I can't every time) then you'd have cracked it. When I did a bit of competition work in the BARCS thermal soaring league during the late 80s, invarably it would be less than perfect landings that made the difference between a decent position and being an also-ran. Edited June 12, 2023 by Cuban8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Even the big boys don't get it right all the time. Interesting video of the less than perfect landings shared by this full size pilot. Nothing that you won't see on a model field, including the mistakes we've talked about, except that your neck isn't on the line. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLuUPl2YuPk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 The most important aspect about landings is to have planned out exactly how you will approach and land before you ever take off. On arriving at the site survey the conditions, work out their effect (i.e. the wind direction will be highly influential in terms of the approach pattern you fly, established pattern etc), then mentally step through what you will do and when, visuallising the path of the model. Once you are have flown a site many times and know the predominat wind conditions and related patterns this will take only a second or two, but as a beginner you will probably need to spend a few minutes considering this and working it out. Ijitally that should be with your instructor, then on your own as you approach solo standard. Taking this step beforehand means there are no real decisions to make in the air (unless there is a dramatic change of wind direction and/or strength mid flight which is a rare occurence), and every decision you can avoid having to make quickly in the air is one less opportunity to make a mistake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extra slim Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 100% agree with Matty. Many a beginner, sets up, fires up, puts the model on the ground and then does what the bloke before did! or only then ponders which way the wind is. When you get to the field, survey the situation, work out and visualise. Also, dont listen to the "there's hardly any wind, it makes no difference".. brigade.. it does, and more so, when you are inexperienced. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 Thanks guys, all good advice I'm sure. Forgetting about the various elements of flying discussed so far ...... take of, circuits, landing etc. One thing that I am more keen to develop as I try to put all the pieces together is " spacial awareness " in the sky. I think that this will be the crux of bringing all the other elements together. My instructor tells me to try and visualise a giant billiard table in the sky when I am flying so when I do my circuits, they are more rectangular in shape rather than trapezoidal. I think getting my overall flying borders visually in the sky into my head will help enormously when transitioning from the " normal " flying pattern to adopting the approach route for landing as well as the other changes required for procedural turns and the like. We have certain landmarks that I am trying to use for example p,e tree lines, wind farm turbines etc as a point to turn in on certain moves but again ...... consistency only comes with time. Also, even though you are mindful of the need to do these things in order to progress, you are concentrating that hard on just keeping the model up that you forget to concentrate on your boundaries, route indicators. Nor so important when you are just flying for your own pleasure but when trying to form the correct routine for an examiner, is imperative. The space you use to fly obviously needs to be kept within a safe range but not so small that you are frightened to show a good command of your model. Anyway, I'm not trying to scare myself with the above, but I do realise that these considerations need to start to be introduced as part of the bigger picture. Again, thanks for all the advice ..... gets the old grey matter twitching. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Hi Toto One thing that will help with spatial awareness is keeping your feet planted at all times. In other words, don't move your feet so you follow the aircraft. If you plant your feet to they leave you facing the flight line and turn your head to follow the model, you will automatically have an indication of where you are on your billiard table. Constantly moving your feet so that you look straight ahead at the model at all times completely destroys this aspect of spatial awareness, If you already do this, excellent, If no, it's worth a try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 Funny you should say that Peter, At times, I do find myself turning my body maybe 90 degrees. Any more and you are already in trouble. I have found myself drifting over the flight line and surmising that either I've misinterpreted the radius of the turn or that I have just not placed my model far enough out / away in the first place. It doesn't happen too often but it's probably one of the reasons that I am aware that this element needs improving in the first place. ...... practice ... awareness .... and focus ...... that's all it's down to. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul devereux Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 9 hours ago, Christopher Wolfe said: When teaching students to fly I used to take off and teach them the basics until they could handle the aircraft proficiently around the traditional left hand circuit and then repeat the exercise with right hand circuits (much more difficult for right hand dominant people imho). I find left turns more instinctive, particularly when lining up to land. I thought it was due to having flown C/L planes as a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 I spoke with one of my instructors over the weekend about that very subject of right hand turns. We discussed that as you draw your right thumb around towards the right, it automatically seems to travel into an arc. He suggests that that's why it could be better using finger and thumb as opposed to just your thumb on the sticks. Sort of makes sense I thought but I just feel a bit ham fisted when trying to use that technique and cant manage a more delicate application. I suppose with practice it would eventually fall into place but for now, I'll stick with what has generally worked for me so far. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 It may have been easier in the old days due to that long stick and dangly bit of fabric on the end Just like siting with a car ( round nosed car are more difficult for siting, some being so vague ), amount of wing seen, amount of nose seen, amount of tail seen.... Practise practise practise When your on holiday and see birds soaring/flying, imagine you are controlling them, swallows are really aerobatic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Gates Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 11 hours ago, toto said: The big benefit of that is ..... not being able to say that I'm trainer free, but to simply be able to click up more time practicing without having to rely on others as heavily. Congratulations Toto, go away and enjoy the break. Depending on the club, you may find that having gone solo, you may still be tied to an instructor for your flying time as many clubs require pilots to have gained their "A" test certificate before being allowed to fly unsupervised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 Hi Andy, I suppose all clubs have their rules but as far as I'm aware, once my instructor decides I'm good enough, it has to be witnessed and agreed by a second member ( possibly a committee member who is also a trainer ) then you are free to go. I will assume that just as easily as they can make that award ...... they can also take it away. ..... fair enough. I will have to confirm what I have just said though. I suppose there is a " pre solo " goal to achieve and that's just getting consistently comfortable managing to undertake a whole flight from start to finish with no intervention. Then consistently ..... and then ..... solo with a view to practising to death to gain A test ability. I have no qualms or feeling of inferiority having someone buddying me for however long it takes ..... it's just the eventual freedom of not having to rely on having someone there and potentially limiting my potential flight time. .... However ...... it's just part of the same regime that most have had to go through ... so just accept it. I'll get there. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 I've noticed this bit about left hand turns being easier than right hand turns and I have to say I think it's just down to people getting used to flying left hand circuits more often than right hand ones. You should guard against getting "handed" in this way. Yes, an aircraft will roll to the right slightly faster than it will roll to the left due to engine torque but you need a stop watch to notice the difference. Just try and practice turning both ways and equal number of times when you are flying and you will not become handed. There is an issue with geometry when flying thumbs only in that your thumb tends to sit at approx 45 deg to the plane of stick for both elevator and aileron - assuming you are flying Mode 2. That was why I eventually went to thumb and finger and used a tray so that I was no longer holding the Tx. I made the change after taking my B and after flying competition aerobatics for a year. It took me 3 months to get back to where I was flying thumbs but helped me enormously with flying precision aerobatics. I would always urge pilots to give Tx trays a go early on and even start beginners on my spare tray and harness. Being able to rest your palm on the palm rests helps with precision of control. OTOH, there are many top pilots who seem to manage to hand hold their Tx and fly finger and thumb and are in the top 10 of world ranked aerobatic pilots. If it works for you then its definitely worth using a Tx tray. Regardless of whether your club requires you to have a BMFA A Certificate before allowing you to fly unsupervised, if you travel to fly at another club they might have such a rule so you will then need to have a supervisor to fly there. In other words, it is always a good idea to take the BMFA A Test. You will need to take the BMFA RCC test anyway before you fly unsupervised as that is a legal requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul devereux Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 4 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said: I've noticed this bit about left hand turns being easier than right hand turns and I have to say I think it's just down to people getting used to flying left hand circuits more often than right hand ones. But why would they get used to flying left hand circuits more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 40 minutes ago, paul devereux said: But why would they get used to flying left hand circuits more? Maybe it's a weather factor, we have the Mistral in the winter and spring, so it's right-hand circuits, in summer it's the southern breeze so left-hand circuits for the summer flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, paul devereux said: But why would they get used to flying left hand circuits more? I believe you fly on your own land so you can fly anywhere, any circuit. In most/all Bmfa clubs you have dead areas over the pits, car park etc where your not allowed to fly . So your circuits are decided by wind direction. Where I used to fly regularly as a novice, the prevailing wind required right hand circuits so I am better at right hand turns. My right rolls and stall turns are also better. Edited June 13, 2023 by Learner Change 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Learner said: I believe you fly on your own land so you can fly anywhere, any circuit. In most/all Bmfa clubs you have dead areas over the pits, car park etc where your not allowed to fly . So your circuits are decided by wind direction. Where I used to fly regularly as a novice, the prevailing wind required right hand circuits so I am better at right hand turns. My right rolls and stall turns are also better. All of these biases are resolved by practicing the things that you find more difficult. If you allow biases to go unchecked they become more hard wired and more difficult to overcome - nothing that isn't overcome by practice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 15 hours ago, toto said: Hi Andy, I suppose all clubs have their rules but as far as I'm aware, once my instructor decides I'm good enough, it has to be witnessed and agreed by a second member ( possibly a committee member who is also a trainer ) then you are free to go. I will assume that just as easily as they can make that award ...... they can also take it away. ..... fair enough. I will have to confirm what I have just said though. I suppose there is a " pre solo " goal to achieve and that's just getting consistently comfortable managing to undertake a whole flight from start to finish with no intervention. Then consistently ..... and then ..... solo with a view to practising to death to gain A test ability. I have no qualms or feeling of inferiority having someone buddying me for however long it takes ..... it's just the eventual freedom of not having to rely on having someone there and potentially limiting my potential flight time. .... However ...... it's just part of the same regime that most have had to go through ... so just accept it. I'll get there. Toto Hope your flying is going well Toto and that you are making progress. The weather is very hot at the minute for flying. Having said that , I was down at the club field last night flying the big T28 Trojan. I bought this plane 8 years ago. Nice flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 Enjoy the weather whilst it lasts. Doesn't get much better does it ..... a nice sunny day and out with your plane and a nice cool bottle of fizzy juice to quench your thirst ..... ahhhhhh. The trojan looks Impressive. What are you running that on ? Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Toto, I'm running it with a Gens Ace 6s lipo battery 5000mah. The motor is an Eflite power 60 with 80amp speed controller. Was out tonight again with it along with some of my friends at the flying club. The weather is great and your right, we must make the best of it while it lasts. Hope you get some flying done too. Its a great hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) How do you find the batteries. I'm always interested in what is being used by others just in case you see any deals going on them price wise. You have more confidence to buy if they have been recommended. I am mainly using Voltz batteries for the Beaver and find them alright. That was on the recommendation of Steve from Kings Lynn Models. .... cant fault them so far. It's good to hear you are getting out as much as the hobby is infectious and it's a downer when restricted due to weather, especially if your mojo is riding high. I looked up RC clubs in Paphos in Cyprus as I fly out there on Saturday. The only one in or near Pahos itself is right beside Pahos international airport which ie a mixed commercial and military airport. Makes me a bit nervous with the idea of just turning up and milling around the area looking for it from a security perspective. I may just need to wait u til I get back home before getting my next fix. So far I have been restricted to weekends but with the brighter nights now here, I hope to try and get out one or two evenings as well when I come back. .... unfortunately, that depends on availability of instructors etc as well so wont build my Hope's up to much. Anyway, I can understand the buzz you must get when packing the trojan into the back of the car and driving like a bat out of hell to get down to the club to fly her. she'll look great in the air that's for sure. All the best and keep enjoying the flying. Toto Edited June 14, 2023 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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