First taste of the sky

[leccyflyer]

7 hours ago, John Stainforth said:

I am surprised that your club and instructor haven't thoroughly checked out the plane and its gear before taking to the air. Then, when things go wrong it is almost always pilot error. I very much doubt whether your NX6 and NX8 need to be sent back to the supplier for testing.

 

I'm surprised that you could come to the definitive conclusion that Toto's club and instructor hadn't thoroughly checked out his aeroplane and gear before taking to the air. What Toto is picturing here is his aeroplane after several crashes and subsequent repairs. I'm not seeing a great deal wrong with his initial gear installation, though it's not exactly how I might have done it. The engine problems that he has been having are all too common with new two stroke engines, however good the initial installation is. I'm reasonably certain that most flyers of such trainers, or their instructors,  do not go to the extent of checking that all of the engine mounting bolts are tight before every flight and there is no telling when those came undone.

[Nick Cripps]

14 hours ago, toto said:

 

the throttle went to fully closed again and the aileron, rudder and elevator all stayed neutral as before.

 

This statement from your failsafe check does not confirm that the controls move to neutral when the tx is switched off.

 

The AR620 and other Spektrum receivers have 2 failsafe settings: smartsafe and preset failsafe. Smartsafe closes the throttle and holds all other controls in their current position whereas preset failsafe closes the throttle and moves all other controls to positions preset when binding. In either case, it is important to rebind the receiver after all other control settings have been programmed into your transmitter, most importantly if there has been a need to reverse the throttle after the initial bind.

 

Read the AR620 manual again to find out how to set the 2 different types of failsafe.

[toto]

Many thanks Nick,

 

I'm pretty sure that when the failsafe has been set, it's been accordingy to previous experience rather than the specific receiver prescription. I may be wrong. 

 

However, now that I am taking a more active roll 8n setting this model up for myself ( for checking by others when ready to commission to tha air ) I will take the time to ensure that the instructions from the AR620 are followed rather than ( maybe ) a rule of thumb. As I said .... I may be wrong with my assumption. It's just that I get the impression people have their own methods on these things.

 

Toto

[GrumpyGnome]

Older Spektrum rx's used to take the failsafe from the signals received from the tx at initial bind - usually neutral(ish).

 

If your mentor is used to doing it that way, it'll not necessarily be what you need for the newer rx's.

 

What you'll end up with by setting it all up yourself is confidence that you understand the process more.  Your instructor/mentor should still check the failsafe - and it shouldn't just be by looking at what happens to the throttle.  Needs to be as Nick and I have said - make sure ALL controls failsafe to the position you want..

[toto]

Ok chaps back in the shed for the rebuild of the Arising Star .

 

To save completely wandering on this thread, I will continue the Arising star saga on the arising star thread ..... hope that makes sense.

 

See you over there if you are watching.

 

toto

[toto]

No flying even planned for this weekend.

 

Weather forecast poor .... chest infection ... and Arising Star getting some major surgery.

 

I'll happily take this weekend in the chin ..... looks like shed time only ..... with a 2Kw electric heater keeping me company. 

 

See you in the shed.

 

Toto

[toto]

So ..... things are coming on nicely with my Frankinstar ( Arising Star ) rebuild. Repairs are coming along and being ticked off one by one. Electrics have been re- arranged to what I think is a better layout where they have a fighting chance.

 

TX and RX have been bound and triple rates set. Throttle cut has been allocated to its usual switch ( forgot the letter designation but not the location  ). Fail safe has been set to all surfaces neutral and throttle just above idle.

 

I still have to bind the two transmitters ( which I've done before ) complete a rigourous range check ( from all four directions ) and just double check my instructors previous rate settings to see that my newly set model matches his.

 

Finally ...... I need to engross myself in the finer points of setting up the engine for firing up under my own steam for the first time. ..... and double check the throttle cut under power.

 

I have already been viewing some engine start up regimes on Utube earlier tonight and have got a bit of a basic feel for it. I just need to get the procedures engrained in their correct sequence in my thick head. 

 

As well as the start up procedure, I need to understand the adjustment of the fuel / air mix to alter the lean / rich balance. It's one thing getting the engine to start and run but another getting it to purr along efficiently.

 

The plan is ....... all going well .......I will be able to take the Frankinstar up to the field this weekend ..... complete the range checks with one of my modelling mates, have a supervised check over of all the required safety settings ( engine cut off and fail safe ) start the engine for the first time and have that checked over to see she is running reliably ..... then get her up on the buddy system for a re-maiden.

 

I'll discuss this with my instructor and see if he will be happy to follow my " logical walk through " process. Hopefully there will be little intervention required .... just an experienced eye casting over my own efforts.

 

Let's see if I can get all the remaining boxes ticked off in time.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

Edited September 18, 2023 by toto

[GrumpyGnome]

Good work toto.  Once you get your engine idling reliably, reset the failsafe - you only need it to keep the engine running, in case the signal is regained.  Too much and it'll increase the chances of a flyaway. 

[MattyB]

On 18/09/2023 at 23:12, toto said:

I'll discuss this with my instructor and see if he will be happy to follow my " logical walk through " process. Hopefully there will be little intervention required .... just an experienced eye casting over my own efforts.

Just my personal opinion, but this is your model so you can make the decisions - everything you are doing is logical, and you should feel empowered to do whatever checks you believe are needed before you hand the model to another pilot for a check flight. Yes, if your instructor is the pilot in charge the onus on him is to be happy the model is safe and well setup before the next flight, but his checks follow after anything you want to do is complete. 

[MattyB]

On 18/09/2023 at 23:12, toto said:

The plan is ....... all going well .......I will be able to take the Frankinstar up to the field this weekend ..... complete the range checks with one of my modelling mates…

Ps - Don’t forget to range test the other RX that was installed initially in the same session, then you will have telemetry information to compare from both units that was gathered on the same day in the same conditions (invaluable for troubleshooting and checking the install is now improved).

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by MattyB

[toto]

I'll be checking in to see what the plans are at the field for this weekend. 

 

I'll be suggesting that regardless of the weather, we put the morning aside for some thorough testing before even considering taking to the sky. 

 

I can make up a mock up with the previous RX, a servo, a battery etc to bench test / range test the RX as suggested as well as the range test on the Frankinstar itself. 

 

Hopefully the previous RX will test ok ( as I suspect it will ) and it can be put back into active service at some point. If it does, I would repeat the range checks on it again when the time comes to use it.

 

Toto

[toto]

Hopefully, the next field visit shall see the Frankinstar " over the line ".

 

The plan, and it's one suggested by others us that I have a trainer plus a back up so I will also be looking at resurrecting my domino ( EP ) which is also near enough at the maiden stages. The Frankinstar is first priority to get me flying regularly but a morning maybe in a week or two's time will be spent getting the domino available as well. 

 

Then I'll be happy. ..... If for any reason the Frankinstar takes a hit, the flying shouldn't stop for any length of time whilst I repair it again.

 

That's the plan anyway ...... sounds reasonable to me without getting too far ahead of myself.

 

Toto 

[GrumpyGnome]

Sounds a reasonable plan to me ......

[David Davis 2]

Toto, if you can understand telemetry,(I can't, never seen the point,) you can understand your engine easily. I believe that you have a Force 46 in the model. There are only two controls to this engine's carburetter, a high speed and a low speed needle. On the Force the main needle or high-speed needle is canted away from the propeller making it less likely that your fingers will hit the propeller while it's running. Your engine is new and will have good compression. If you have the correct fuel for it, 5% nitro and at least 15% oil should be ok and a suitable glow plug, there's no reason why the engine should not run after all, it's run before.

 

Once you have it running at wide open throttle, you may try turning the main needle to see what effect that has on the engine's performance. Then let us know what happens. 😊

 

  

[toto]

Hi DD2,

 

I'll keep everyone in the picture as to the results from this weekends activities.

 

I spoke with my instructor earlier today and discussed what I would like to achieve with regards to range tests, engine set ups and transmitter checks ( ie correct settings for fail safe, cut off and dual controls ) which I want to have thoroughly tried and tested prior to going air bourne again. i think he has bought into it albeit with the opinion of the range test from all four corners of the globe being over kill. I have asked that we do it anyway just to complete this exercise as having been pretty comprehensively covered.

 

happy bunny. I am sure that we shall see better results / behaviour this time around.

 

there better be. 

 

toto

[Ron Gray]

28 minutes ago, toto said:

range test from all four corners of the globe being over kill

Overkill is better than roadkill.

[toto]

I'm with you Ron.

 

This has been a journey and to be honest, I can now see that the race to " chuck " together models to have available to fly has been a dismal failure ..... on my own behalf. this whole debacle has learned me loads of invaluable lessons and the lessons learned come into effect as of now.

 

Unfortunately, if there had been a more suitable ( reliable ) club model to learn to fly from ...... maybe my flying skills could have progressed at a quicker pace. ( maybe unfair to say ) it all comes down to the individuals ability as well.

 

I was to keen to have at least a couple of models available under my own steam to keep things going.

 

the other models that I have started in the past will surely benefit from what has been going on here. still some things for me to get my head around properly and many mistakes to be made ..... that I am sure of ..... but I'm getting closer.

 

toto

[aidan mcatamney]

59 minutes ago, toto said:

I'm with you Ron.

 

This has been a journey and to be honest, I can now see that the race to " chuck " together models to have available to fly has been a dismal failure ..... on my own behalf. this whole debacle has learned me loads of invaluable lessons and the lessons learned come into effect as of now.

 

Unfortunately, if there had been a more suitable ( reliable ) club model to learn to fly from ...... maybe my flying skills could have progressed at a quicker pace. ( maybe unfair to say ) it all comes down to the individuals ability as well.

 

I was to keen to have at least a couple of models available under my own steam to keep things going.

 

the other models that I have started in the past will surely benefit from what has been going on here. still some things for me to get my head around properly and many mistakes to be made ..... that I am sure of ..... but I'm getting closer.

 

toto

Here here Toto,  I love your possitivety.   You have the right attitude.   Good man yourself.  

[MattyB]

14 hours ago, toto said:

I spoke with my instructor earlier today and discussed what I would like to achieve with regards to range tests, engine set ups and transmitter checks ( ie correct settings for fail safe, cut off and dual controls ) which I want to have thoroughly tried and tested prior to going air bourne again. i think he has bought into it albeit with the opinion of the range test from all four corners of the globe being over kill. I have asked that we do it anyway just to complete this exercise as having been pretty comprehensively covered.

 

Given the control issue you had last time out and the fact you now have a completely new install (new RX in a new location, and other kit moved internally), I am amazed that an experienced modeller is suggesting a 360 degree range check is over the top. It only takes a few seconds to complete (just have someone standing by the model shuffling it 90 degrees 3 times, once every 5-10-seconds or so), but is critical when using 2.4GHz kit where aerial orientation is very important. I can only assume he still installs based on the practices previously used for FM 35MHz gear, where aerial orientation was not as critical.

Edited September 21, 2023 by MattyB

[leccyflyer]

To be fair, I think that Toto was proposeing a range check from four different geographical positions, rather than just switching the orientation of the model. I can see how the instructor would be sceptical of the need for making a range test from the four corners of the field.

[toto]

Hi Leccyflyer,

 

You are correct. I think I have possibly misunderstood.

 

My instructor did suggest turning the model and also testing with me standing in between the model and TX.

 

Thanks for clarifying the above.

 

Toto

[leccyflyer]

No probs - I think your instructor is unlikely to have any issue at all with rotating the model, to change orientation for your range check. Best of luck with your tests and hopefully with getting back in the air, the forecast for the weekend is somewhat improved on the high winds and heavy rain we've had this week.

[MattyB]

4 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

To be fair, I think that Toto was proposing a range check from four different geographical positions, rather than just switching the orientation of the model. I can see how the instructor would be sceptical of the need for making a range test from the four corners of the field.

 

Ah ok - that's explains it. I agree that there is no real point in moving where you do the test around the field; just make sure there is a clear line of sight between model and TX, and move the model in all orientations during the test. Afterwards (or even during if your T X can display the values) check the telemetry, and any potential issues should show themselves.

[toto]

Well another couple of steps closer to having the Frankinstar ready for Saturday.

 

All physical repairs are now done as of today and the NX8 and NX6 transmitter have been bound and are both working fine. A bit more to be done on ensuring the dual rates have been set up correct and working on both transmitters. Once I have them set on the NX8 which I have been trying to do .... they should automatically flood through to the NX6 when the pupil ( me ) is given control.

 

There seems to be something I'm doing wrong with programming the NX8 at the moment with regards to the transmitter accepting my dual rate inputs ...... but I will get this .... confidence is high.

 

cheers

 

toto 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

15 minutes ago, toto said:

Well another couple of steps closer to having the Frankinstar ready for Saturday.

 

All physical repairs are now done as of today and the NX8 and NX6 transmitter have been bound and are both working fine. A bit more to be done on ensuring the dual rates have been set up correct and working on both transmitters. Once I have them set on the NX8 which I have been trying to do .... they should automatically flood through to the NX6 when the pupil ( me ) is given control.

 

There seems to be something I'm doing wrong with programming the NX8 at the moment with regards to the transmitter accepting my dual rate inputs ...... but I will get this .... confidence is high.

 

cheers

 

toto 

 

If you put a bolt through it's neck, don't forget the threadlock Toto. 😉