First taste of the sky

[toto]

No worries,

 

Already secured next weekend ..... weather permitting. 

 

Toto

[toto]

Hi Simon,

 

That's the intention. Consistent practice and a plan to embrace and master my next manouvre as I progress. A rolling stone gathers no moss and all that. 

 

For whatever reason my basic circuits are a bit rougher than they were so that is something that I constantly work on. I dont know if its partly down to the change in model ( Arising Star to Domino ) and of course a change in format ( IC to Electric ).

Anyway, the future should now remain consistent which should help. All I need to do is secure the practice slots and get my head down. 

 

As mentioned earlier my take off's are good so more practice on the circuits and start getting used to lining up for approaches, maybe some low level passes over the strip ( say two then one mistake high ) then a whisper off a touch and go before attempting my first landing.

 

I have a really good tutor who seems keen to get me on to my next task but is realistic and truthful with regards to my current progress. I dont think he'll push me into anything until I'm happy and confident to attempt it. Roll on the weekend. I feel apporoaches coming on.

 

Toto

[Don Fry]

Toto, straight advice, last year was abysmal for weather. This winter is shaping up to be no different. My river had the cheek to visit the workshop. Nearly twice, but certainly once . There are trees down. . I can fly in it, been doing it longer than most people have been on this earth. But chose not, much of the time. 
You have therefore been dealt a losers hand, accept it, patience, patience and you will prevail. 
Sicilian proverb often misquoted, vengeance is a dish best tasted cold, is better translated, a dish that tastes better cold.

Patience. 

Edited January 8 by Don Fry

[toto]

Hi Don,

 

It may well be that this year turns out to be a repeat of last year ..... at least weather wise .... but I need to keep the morale up ..... be enthusiastic with positive vibes so when the opportunity comes .... be it regularly or infrequent..... I'm ready to seize the moment. 

 

I'm used to things collapsing round about me but can only hope for a break.patience will be exercised ..... I have no choice .... but I will at least try and proceed as ..... din din dinnnnnnn ...... Captain invincible...... 

 

I have decided that you and I are going to have an amazing flying experience this year. ..... Stick with me.

 

Toto

[Don Fry]

Toto. Many years ago I had a tutor. His view of anger management. 
The pond life (his words) before you  just started a timer. You just hang onto reality. One day, you will be able to hit the stop button, if you wish. 
Cynical, of course. Also try to shoot holes in it as a stress less life enabler, and reward giver. 

[toto]

Mmmmmm..... too late for the stop button I fear ......... only the acceleration pedal. .... depends on your view I suppose.

 

Toto

[Frank Skilbeck]

For cold weather flying the lipo powered hand warmers are great, keep one alternating between pockets can warm your fingers between flights.

[toto]

I was using nice warm fleece gloves at the weekend between flights. My fingers were just about surviving flight periods uncovered. What I found worse was my toes ..... they were freezing and that was with thick I sulated socks. 

 

This weekend coming it will be the same socks but with a thinner pair under them to create that insulation layer. I can take them off before trying to drive home again.

 

I was not really looking forward to going over the door on Sunday when I saw the frost on the house roofs but once you are on the move and get things set up, it's amazing how you are glad that you made the effort. Looking forward to Saturday now.

 

Toto

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

10 minutes ago, toto said:

I was using nice warm fleece gloves at the weekend between flights. My fingers were just about surviving flight periods uncovered. What I found worse was my toes ..... they were freezing and that was with thick I sulated socks. 

 

This weekend coming it will be the same socks but with a thinner pair under them to create that insulation layer. I can take them off before trying to drive home again.

 

I was not really looking forward to going over the door on Sunday when I saw the frost on the house roofs but once you are on the move and get things set up, it's amazing how you are glad that you made the effort. Looking forward to Saturday now.

 

Toto

 

Get some Skeetex boots bought, sorted.

[toto]

Thanks for that,

 

Just looked them up. They look the business.

 

I'll drop a hint for my birthday at the begi ning of February. SWIMBO may just take the bait. 

 

Toto

[Frank Skilbeck]

8 hours ago, toto said:

I was using nice warm fleece gloves at the weekend between flights. My fingers were just about surviving flight periods uncovered. What I found worse was my toes ..... they were freezing and that was with thick I sulated socks. 

 

This weekend coming it will be the same socks but with a thinner pair under them to create that insulation layer. I can take them off before trying to drive home again.

 

I was not really looking forward to going over the door on Sunday when I saw the frost on the house roofs but once you are on the move and get things set up, it's amazing how you are glad that you made the effort. Looking forward to Saturday now.

 

Toto

I got some lined fishing wellies from the Aldi centre isle, brilliant.

[toto]

Midweek already and my experience is that the weather has been slightly milder. Definitely not as cold as last weekend was. Thats got to be good news.

 

So ... forward planning for a Saturday field day. Tonight is battery charging. 4 x flight batteries and two transmitter packs. 

 

The plan ....... back to take off's, general circuits and lining up for landing approaches. 

 

My circuits have been a bit rough so the emphasis is improving my spacial awareness aligning my circuits in the air with the general flying parameters of the field.

 

I'll start off on my mid rate settings to try and restrict the effect of over compensation that I am tending to apply coming out of turns. I am confusing my left and right controls when coming out of a turn which is something I had never previously been guilty of. I always try and place myself in the cockpit when flying. I'm sure I'll iron that out quickly.

 

My prediction ( all going well ) is that I'll spend this weekend improving my circuits and starting to find myself aligning for landing approaches and by the following weekend, I'm confident that I will be at least reducing my altitude over the landing strip in readiness of a first touch down if not my first landing.

 

All just thinking out loud and setting targets as I think I need to be applying a little pressure on myself in order to progress. I must have a goal to prevent the potential of just flying around aimlessly. If I secure even half my objectives then at least it is positive and planned progress.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[Cuban8]

Just a few observations that I think are worthwhile considering, Toto.

Getting your circuit flying to a good and  repeatable standard is IMHO, vital. Fly circuits of reasonably constant height and that don't drift all over the place i.e try to have them superimpose themselves on each other. LH and RH, rectangular and oval, mix 'em up and get used to the differentv techniques to perform them. Does get a bit tedious just circuit bashing, so take a break for a few minutes and try something a little more freestyle to break the monotony from time to time. Good circuit flying and positioning is so important to becoming what I like to call a 'tidy' flyer and wil pay dividends later.

 

"I always try and place myself in the cockpit when flying."    Hmmmm...I regard this as a serious fault akin to turning around to always face the flight direction of the model. Don't do it Toto, you are on the ground and the model is in the air and you'll be a better pilot if you learn by repetition how to orientate yourself visually on the model rather than pretending to be sitting in the model. I know it might seem to be a good idea but it's really not and will slow down your progress, especially when you try some simple aeros and you find the model in some pretty weird attitudes!  Have your instructor talk you through this.

 

Whatever you do, don't set yourself unrealistic targets - you'll only wind up even more frustrated when you don't achieve a self imposed goal on time.

Good luck, you seem to be doing well - steady as she goes, a broken model is of no use to anyone.

[Nigel R]

1 hour ago, toto said:

I am confusing my left and right controls when coming out of a turn which is something I had never previously been guilty of. I always try and place myself in the cockpit when flying. I'm sure I'll iron that out quickly.

 

I agree with Cuban8 here. Learn to fly the model in its various different attitudes and positions, do not try and pretend you're a passenger in it.

 

As an aside, this aspect of flying is one in which you can make very, very fast progress using a simulator.

 

[Rich Griff]

Confusing r and l controls when coming out of a turn.....?

 

Due to slight "disorientation" ...?

 

Reinforce your instict, prop the dipping wing with the stick etc., And/or remember a bit more the " attitude, position, course"  of the aircraft....

 

Yes practise practise practise, to include figure of eights in all directions up wind, as well as circuits, again both directions, and approaches with out landing, low getting lower , landing practising, aborted landings and touch and goes, but keep airspeed/flying speed up 

 

All this practise will pay dividends.....

 

I understand your present model is electric powered, how long are the flights at say half throttle may I ask ?

[Jon H]

1 hour ago, toto said:

My circuits have been a bit rough so the emphasis is improving my spacial awareness aligning my circuits in the air with the general flying parameters of the field

 

You can help yourself here by choosing some reference points around the field. A big tree, a building, power pole or whatever it may be. These references are handy especially when it comes to landing approaches. I used a variety of reference points to help some guys at my club with their move into larger warbirds. There's quite alot going on when landing one of those (gear, flaps, rate changes etc) so breaking it up into little pieces, and assigning each one a reference point makes the job easier. Clearly you arent landing a warbird just yet, but the principal is the same for you. A handful of reference points scattered about can help with your overall awareness when you catch them in your peripheral vison as you fly around and specific ones can guide approaches. A desired touchdown point for each landing can also be handy and if you overshoot, go around. This will prevent you flogging a dead horse of an approach and running out of runway. 

 

1 hour ago, toto said:

I always try and place myself in the cockpit when flying

 

Like the other guys i wouldnt recommend that. as you are not in the cockpit you just just confuse yourself when not flying away. 

 

1 hour ago, toto said:

All just thinking out loud and setting targets as I think I need to be applying a little pressure on myself in order to progress. I must have a goal to prevent the potential of just flying around aimlessly.

 

Aerobatics. If you havent already its time for loops and rolls. They demand accurate stick movement, circuit planning, careful use of power, show the model in unusual attitudes and a variety of other things that will strain your brain. I taught aerobatics way before my students ever went solo as they revealed shortcomings in their flying far better than laps of the patch and it was easier to nip those bad habits in the bud then than later down the track. They were also so deeply focused on their loop/roll that they forgot all about their circuit flying and it often improved as they were not over thinking it so much. 

 

Rolls are a great intro as they are relatively easy to do but can be tricky to do well. They should be split into several parts flown in sequence and you do not get to do the next part until you master all of the ones leading up to it. Dont just smash the ailerons over and hope for the best, you have to plan it as use a full pass from one side of the patch to the other so you do not rush it. 

 

For example.

 

Fly a normal circuit round to start the whole thing. 

Pick a reference point to start the run in to start the roll. Be at this point at the right height, direction and speed with the wings level.

Run in to a reference second point (only a few seconds after the first) and add a bit of power (you will have to learn how much you need). then wait a second or two. 

3rd reference point pull the nose up say 40 degrees above horizontal and centre the elevator

With that all stable get the ailerons over while holding the elevator in the centre. 

Once inverted pull the throttle back to say 1/4. Ideally you should be directly ahead of yourself as you reach the inverted point. 

once rolled out to wings level wait a second or two then pull up to level flight

add circuit power back on the motor. 

Return to your original circuit. 

 

That little lot will get you one barrel roll and more or less any aileron model will perform it. Despite being the simplest aerobatic thing you can do there is a far bit to think about and it pays to break it down into these little chunks with a go/no go on each. Dont get the nose up enough or the wings arent level? dont start the roll. Fly out and start again. Its worth while going around as a rushed effort from the wrong position will simply end up in a crash. 

 

The point about being inverted in front of you is getting more advanced, and its even a point of note on the B certificate. But its still something you can achieve so why not start practicing it early? Its also another nice reference point to aim for and will be a challenge that will require improvement in all of your skills, which is sort of the point. It will also scare the life out of you the first few times, especially when you get it wrong, which you will. So do your first one's at a half decent height. Not in orbit so you cant see the thing, but not cutting the grass either...at least, not yet. Work your way down as you become more proficient. Being scared half to death is no bad thing either as you end up having to rescue the model from a bad spot and this, again, is good practice. Also if remember how you got there you can avoid doing the same thing again! 

 

Loops are another whole story, but its a similar procedure. With loops and rolls mastered you can combine them for a half cuban 8, immelmann, reversal or even a quarter clover once you get dead fancy with it. That little lot covers most aerobatic routines and its just a case of building on the basics of control, circuit planning, aircraft positioning and all that stuff. 

 

Oh and its more fun than flying in circles. Just expect your flights to be only half the length as metal fatigue will creep in very quickly when you start giving it a go.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[toto]

Hi Jon ...... scary but interesting take on " training ". 

 

I would never have thought that rolls and loops and inverted flight would have been part of the repiortiore at my stage of the game. 

 

I'll obviously consult with my instructor whom himself is a very proficient flyer. He does display excellent patience with me which is appreciated and I'm hoping that doesn't run out. After all we are currently  just talking circuits. I had been in a better place with this earlier but for whatever reason I seem to have slipped a bit.

 

I have performed a couple of loops previously with my other club and don't really fear that as a function. I found it doable ... maybe not always pretty .... but I got it.

 

There is a lot to digest in what you have said so you may find me coming back on it again as I get my head around it all. One major point I get though is that putting yourself in more awkward states of orientation will help in understanding recovery to " normal " flight attitudes. Also finer finger control as you try to manouvre for these trickier and more demanding exercises.

 

In answer to Rich's question flight times are running typically for around eight minutes. My alarm is set at five minutes but remaining battery time after a five minute flight was leaving me with over fifty % battery life. We stretched it to eight minutes and are still left with typically over 35%. Most of the time is spent at around 50% throttle. 

 

Certainly food for thought but as I said, the theory of progressing my learning with any style of " programme " or " pattern " has to be in agreement with my instructor as I think he ultimately witnesses my capability and needs to feed me through the grinder as he thinks appropriate. 

 

It will be interesting to get his take on the above though.

 

Thanks for all the contributions above. All appreciated

 

Toto

Edited January 10 by toto

[leccyflyer]

I'd estimate, based on Toto's posts, that he has something less than a dozen hours in the air in the past six months, has yet to attempt a landing, is still experiencing basic disorientation when flying towards himself - perhaps exacerbated by the punctuated nature of his training to date. On that basis schedules of loops, rolls, half Cuban 8s, Immelmans etc are perhaps just a little further in the future than his current comfort level.

[GrumpyGnome]

I tend to agree with leccyflyer - if toto is having orientation issues when the aircraft is the right way up and performing basic turns, having it upside down at any point seems a little too challenging!

 

However, I do feel that doing circuits ad nauseam until they are perfect can be counter-productive.

 

Ultimately, it's up to toto and his instructor to decide what pace is correct. Communication is key - especially agreeing goals for each session and flight.

[toto]

We do talk about where I am during and after each flight.

 

At the moment, it was pointed out that I had developed a habit of coming out of oncoming turns and getting my orientation wrong. Not something that I had bother with previously in my short flying history. I put it down to the gap in flying time and getting myself back into the swing of things.

 

I'm sure I'll solve this quickly. I just need regular flying slots. What has also been recognised is even though I have developed this issue ..... my ability to correct myself with little or no intervention has improved as well.

 

I agree that perfect circuits ( constantly ) does not have to happen before I move on to other elements which I think is why my instructor mentions approaches and even landing attempts. Maybe even just lowering my operating height on approaches initially to get me used to stable flying at lower heights.

 

I think that although I maybe have not perfected the initial routines, he seems to have a good judgement of when he can push me on a little with more progressive manouvres. I'm pretty sure that if I get the next few consistent weekends in, my general circuits will sort themselves out again and some slow but steady progress towards cobbling together the rudimentary elements of a complete ( but basic ) flight from take off to landing will be accomplished. ....... what a buzz and confidence booster that would be. 

 

I'll post up my progress over the next couple of weeks to see how far out my thoughts are.

 

Toto

[leccyflyer]

You'll be fine, if you follow what your instructor is teaching, he'll know better than anyone how to pace your progress. Circuits aren't boring anyway, they are about consistently being able to place the aeroplane where you want it to be. No doubt he'll chuck in some figure of eights as the very best means to improve your appreciate of orientation and the appearance of the aeroplane to reverse your controls. Main thing is to get the flying time in and keep at it regularly -as you've found, stop-start training and weeks with no flying are a bit of a set=back when that happens. Once you start making landing attempts you'll be in a part of your training that can get very addictive, fun and very satisfying.

[Arthur Harris]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

I tend to agree with leccyflyer - if toto is having orientation issues when the aircraft is the right way up and performing basic turns, having it upside down at any point seems a little too challenging!

 

However, I do feel that doing circuits ad nauseam until they are perfect can be counter-productive.

 

Ultimately, it's up to toto and his instructor to decide what pace is correct. Communication is key - especially agreeing goals for each session and flight.

I find good and not so good advice in this. For a novice, inverted etc is a bridge too far. So that is spot on. But endless circuits and figure 8s are invaluable, imo, especially if they are practised at a safe height and varied between left and right hand, even if you feel bored doing them.

I find I have a preference to turn left- for circuits, rolls, and even landing. I prefer to cross the field so I can come in from the left, even though logically I could turn clockwise to come in to land. So, I practise doing what I don't like doing, even to the point of getting frustrated and bored. What I have discovered is the plane behaves exactly the same when it is turning clockwise as when it is turning anticlockwise- it is just my prejudice.

Something else I have discovered is, the old advice given to novices (prop up the falling wing, etc) to help with orientation, is not needed when you get sufficient practise in-you don't "put yourself in the cockpit" so much as learn how the plane flies.

 

[Jon H]

Leccy and GG. I think you are missing my point. I do not expect him to immediately take on a clubman schedule and deliberately broke a barrel roll (which most of us dont even think about performing) into a step by step guide of little building blocks, most of which have nothing to do with aerobatics at all. My comments about half cuban's etc were to demonstrate that the tiny building blocks to get you into loops and rolls then give you bigger blocks to build more complex maneouvers. While it sounds like a complicated thing to do, its not. If you can roll and loop you can half cuban as you only need to string the two together in the right order. 

 

When teaching i went into aerobatics often before takeoff's and landings as it taught several lessons which simple circuit flying does not..or at least, does but it takes longer. It also removes some of the fatigue of flying in circles, and forces a greater level of skill from the student as their errors are more apparent. Clearly careful coaching/guidance is needed but its not hard. I once took up a 10 year old lad who had never flown anything other than his 3 channel parkzone cub. I took off, handed him the tx for my 76 inch sport twin with 2 70 4 strokes and off we went. He could loop and roll it very nicely about 6 minutes later. For crying out loud the first thing i ever did on a model was a loop. I was only 5 and my dad told me to pull the stick back and watch what happened. His flair pup did a loop and that was that! 

 

Also even non flying people know what a loop and roll are. i know for a fact that many of my former students have been very excited to tell other family members or friends that they did a loop with their model. These family/friends are then excited for them as they understand what that means as the red arrows do loops. It makes them feel good as they achieved something they can share. 

 

In any case, the things you need in abundance for a nice landing are taught flying simple aerobatic figures like loops and rolls. Throttle control, attitude control, fine dexterity on the sticks etc. Slow flight and stalling is also something i would cover before landing, and the rudder too. Poor rudders, so oft forgotten. 

 

5 hours ago, toto said:

scary but interesting take on " training "

 

Training is just learning something you cant do already. Can you roll? no? Ok ill teach it. Its not hard just follow the steps.

 

And you dont know the half of it. I would sabotage my students buddy box to make sure they did their control checks correctly. I wouldnt say a word if they missed it, just let them find out in the air. Some would say this was mean, but that was not the purpose of it. The point was, if they didnt catch it not being right then they either didnt check at all, or checked it incorrectly. Was it a mistake? was it laziness? or did i not make the procedure clear enough when i taught it. In either case, we would go back and do it again to make sure they got it right. The shock of them getting it wrong was also a wake up call to some who realised in that moment that their model was dead had i not taken control back on the buddy box. i would also disable their ailerons, or with them reversed due to sabotage teach them to land elevator rudder only. Why? Well i wont always be there to save the day or catch their mistakes. If they forget to plug in their ailerons, fluff their preflight, or the lead disconnects in flight then they need to have been taught how to deal with it. I would also give them a model miles out of trim and expect them to fly a perfect circuit before trimming it out. Why? well they will maiden their own model one day so its best to teach them how to handle a model that's imperfectly set up. How many times have you seen someone deck a model on a maiden while they fought to get it in trim? 

 

All this is the tip of the iceberg, but suffices to say that when i was done with them the requirements of an A cert were a walk in the park. 

 

5 hours ago, toto said:

There is a lot to digest in what you have said so you may find me coming back on it again as I get my head around it all

 

11 points out of a possible 10. if you get that procedure i wrote in your head, clearly understood and ready for deployment then you have it done. Even if it takes a week of reading it. Thinking it through, read it again. If you know what you have to do and can focus on doing it, practicing each part as you go. Where folk go wrong is they try and do it all on the fly. They get in the air and then start thinking about the procedure. With their attention divided between remembering what is next and flying the model it ends in tears. That's assuming they have a procedure at all. The point is, never fly the model into a place your brain has not already visited. Flying skill is important, but not as important as thinking ahead of the model. 

 

5 hours ago, toto said:

I found it doable ... maybe not always pretty .... but I got it.

 

great, so its just a case of tidying it up. Actually as an experiment, using the procedure i wrote for the roll as a template, write one out for a loop. Add as many steps as you think you might need to complete a loop better than you did before. This isnt a test, there's no right and wrong, its just a way of getting the brain thinking about how you might break down something complex into smaller parts. 

 

 

[Trevor]

Ragged circuits are often caused either by

i) Not spotting that the model has drifted off the desired course (Jon's suggestion of picking out a few landmark trees etc. can help here as it forces you to 'zoom out' a bit and be more aware of the surroundings)

 

ii) Failing to come out of a turn on the intended heading, maybe due to disorientation or misjudging the timing and amount of opposite aileron needed to straighten the model up.

 

In these early stages you are basically watching the model fly, detecting when it is drifting off course, working out what control inputs are needed to correct it, then applying them. This is a high workload and will inevitably result in a less than smooth flight pattern. With practice, some of this, especially working out what control inputs are needed, becomes automatic and you will find that you are leading the aeroplane around the intended path rather than following it and trying to get it back on track. You'll know when you've reached this stage because, not only will the flying suddenly become a lot smoother but, if anyone were to ask  you questions like 'did you have to apply opposite aileron during that turn', you won't be able to answer, because you just did what was needed without having to think about it!

[toto]

Hi Trevor

 

After a little thought, I agree with your comments with regards to the model drifting off course. I think I have been letting the model take its own course and correcting when it strays which it will inevitably do. Rather than actually flying the model and anticipating what I should be doing next, applying the required stick ,movements and avoiding the drift.

 

In other words being proactive rather than reactive.

 

All good points to take with me to the field this weekend. So for me ..... forgetting about special awareness for the moment ...... one .... as suggested above, I need to be thinking ahead of my next set of control throw movements and also I suspect I need to be more aware of the requirement to apply some elevator through the turns to keep my nose level which after some thought, realised I have been slipping on.

 

It was my first set of flights for a while so possibly just getting my head back in the same place it was before could help recover my previous position quite quickly.

 

Toto

Edited January 11 by toto