Mode 1 and Mode 2 Incident Report.

[David Davis 2]

I am the only pilot in my club, here in the middle of France, who flies Mode 2, i.e, throttle on the left stick. On Sunday we were binding my transmitter to a trainee pilot's transmitter, Spektum DX9 and NX8 respectively. The model we wanted to fly was an electric powered Radio Queen, a vintage model without ailerons. The rudder was on the right stick on both transmitters. This was accepted practice in 1988 when I first learnt to fly a radio controlled model, in my case a Junior 60 powered by an Irvine 20. Since then I have always remembered to steer a three-channel model with the right stick and anything else with the left stick but another club member suggested that it would be better if the trainee's transmitter was able to actuate the rudder off the left stick as well as the right stick so that he would not have to learn a different take-off technique on with a four channel model. Mixing the rudder and aileron was attempted on the NX8 without success, then the same club member tried to link the left and right sticks on my transmitter again without success.

 

He then put all of the programming back to where it was originally and tested the controls. He pushed the left stick forward expecting the elevator to go downwards when the motor burst into life. No-one was holding the model but he rapidly shut the throttle and all was well. 

 

It could have been a lot worse.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

90+% of our club are M 2, I taught most of them 😇, I fly M 1 and M 2, I did have an awkward take off a few weeks ago M 2 rudder on the right stick, ailerons on the left one, all I can say is that it was exciting missing the fence down the runway.😅

[Cuban8]

The only reason that I have always flown mode 1 is that the very first radio set that I bought was a Futaba 2 channel Medallion combo with twin sticks, back in the 70s - hence the default mode 1 arrangement. If I'd have had more money at the time and could have afforded a four channel outfit, then almost certainly I'd have been sold a mode two tranny and would have gone on from there.

I have a friend who seamlessly switches between modes 1 & 2 when teaching or test flying a model for someone - an amazing feat of dexterity.

The point about the three channel (R-E-Th) model having the rudder - its primary steerage control in this case - operated from both the 'aileron' and 'rudder' sticks is one I've looked into before. Personally, I don't think it's worthwhile. 

The whole idea of learning on a three channel model is to keep it simple and to reduce the trainee's work load ( I don't think it necessarily does, but that's another discussion) so having two separate sticks operating the same function on the model seems cumbersome to my mind. Three channel models require different techniques to those with four channels and a degree of transition from one to the other by the beginner is part of the learning process.

TBH, this is mostly academic now. Unless there are specific reasons why a beginner wants to start on a R-E power model, a four channel trainer is the better option IMHO.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Cuban8

[Geoff S]

I fly M2 and I always set 100% mix between rudder and elevator on a 3 channel model so I have a choice - particularly on take-off.  When I fly a 4 channel model I still use rudder (on the left stick) quite a lot too - particularly on biplanes.

[David perry 1]

Basic advice...dont "save" channels.  Primary  steering controls on right stick...whether rudder or aileron.  Having to "learn a new take off technique " is rot.  Humans are clever animals. 

 

 

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Geoff S said:

I fly M2 and I always set 100% mix between rudder and elevator on a 3 channel model so I have a choice - particularly on take-off.  When I fly a 4 channel model I still use rudder (on the left stick) quite a lot too - particularly on biplanes.

Aghh!  Rudder and aileron, of course 😬

[Andy Gates]

I must admit Geoff S, I did read you post a few times and wondered if this was a technique to liven things up at the field a bit?

[Bruce Collinson]

Unrestrained live electric model?   Basic safety error.   Throttle should have been on skill switch.

 

Sorry if this sounds like Nanny state-ism, but it’s an A Cert fail and showing a trainee bad habits.   I see this sort of complacency slowly creeping into my club too despite club rules being quite explicit.   I accept that in France things might be done differently.   Much is, apparently.   C’est la vie, n’est pas?
 

BTC

[Wookman]

Some while ago I went back to a RE power model after years of flying aileron stuff and found the 100% Rudder to aileron mix quite useful so as to operate the rudder with both sticks. It just helped having built the muscle memory to steer on the left stick for the take off run. Not sure I would advocate for it in any others circumstances. 

[David Davis]

12 hours ago, Bruce Collinson said:

Unrestrained live electric model?   Basic safety error.   Throttle should have been on skill switch.

 

Sorry if this sounds like Nanny state-ism, but it’s an A Cert fail and showing a trainee bad habits.   I see this sort of complacency slowly creeping into my club too despite club rules being quite explicit.   I accept that in France things might be done differently.   Much is, apparently.   C’est la vie, n’est pas?
 

BTC

 

Oui bien sur!

 

I have always set the throttle cut on my i/c models. I never bothered with electric models because once the throttle stick is fully back the propeller stops. I never allowed for the fact that a Mode 1 pilot could operate my transmitter! Now I will adopted the practice of setting the throttle cuts on electric models too. We never had throttle cuts on my old Sanwa Conquest or Futaba FF6 but there weren't many electric powered models around in those days whose motors would start up with the movement of a lever!

 

In the case of this Radio Queen it will soon be out of my hands because the beginner is almost at the stage where he can fly unsupervised.

[Outrunner]

Pleased that nobody got hurt in this incident and credit for talking about it here for others to learn too, but throttle cut or not the model should be restrained when the battery is fitted and the model is "live"

 

 

[MattyB]

Indeed. Setting up a buddy box is one of my least favourite jobs, as a) every Tx does it differently, b) most modellers rarely do it, so it’s hard to remember how, and c) it’s often done at the field under some time pressure as that’s the only place where the two TXs are together. Factor those together and you have a tricky task, and a potentially dangerous one if it’s an electric model.
 

Far better IMO to set it up at home the night before with a brew in hand and a std RX pack providing the radio power. Done that way there is zero chance of the prop spinning, and any issues with the buddy link can be troubleshot more systematically.

Edited June 14, 2023 by MattyB

[PeterF]

I always have throttle cut on electrics and even swapped the switch to one of the locking type that you have to lift up to turn on so it can not be knocked. No arming switch and walking out to the take off area when you knock the throttle, or if you are near the model in the pits. Once landed the cut switch is turned off before recovering the model.

[MattyB]

2 hours ago, David Davis said:

I have always set the throttle cut on my i/c models. I never bothered with electric models because once the throttle stick is fully back the propeller stops. I never allowed for the fact that a Mode 1 pilot could operate my transmitter!

Accidental nudge of the stick when carrying the model out/back; mode 1 pilot picks up your TX; accidentally reversed throttle channel in error; failure to conduct TX checks pre-switching on…. I’m sure there are more as well. In short there are loads of reasons why you should have a throttle kill setup on electric models, and not doing so if your TX has the capability (99.9% of modern hobby grade transmitters do these days) is a recipe for disaster IMO.

[David Davis]

Wise words Matty. It was a spur of the moment thing, programming the transmitter so that both sticks operated the rudder. 

 

[steve too]

The problem here is not buddying a Spektrum mode 1 transmitter with a mode 2 one, I have done that and it is straightforward. The problem is that the OP was setting up the buddy and mixes with the model live and unrestrained when it would have been much safer to get the basics working using the monitor screen on the master.

[steve too]

39 minutes ago, PeterF said:

I always have throttle cut on electrics and even swapped the switch to one of the locking type that you have to lift up to turn on so it can not be knocked. 

 

I use a rotary control and the helpful lady in my transmitter tells me when it is in the armed position.

[David Davis]

2 minutes ago, steve too said:

The problem here is not buddying a Spektrum mode 1 transmitter with a mode 2 one, I have done that and it is straightforward. The problem is that the OP was setting up the buddy and mixes with the model live and unrestrained when it would have been much safer to get the basics working using the monitor screen on the master.

 

Not quite Steve. We had already bound the slave and master transmitters and my transmitter was bound to the model's receiver. Another clubmate, more aufait with computers than me, tried to mix both sticks so either would operate the rudder. Having been unsuccessful with both transmitters he was checking that my transmitter worked normally. He pushed the left stick forward expecting to see down elevator when the prop began to turn. He soon realised his mistake and throttled back. You're right though, the model should have been restrained.