toto Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 I like the look of these Ron ........ may I be so bold as to ask where these came from ....... 😄 toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Ok ..... I have been wandering a bit here. I double checked the epoxy fuel proofing and all seems pretty dry / cured. so I thought to myself ..... lets take an easy job ........... with a bit of visual impact .... 😄 and decided to trial fit the servos. However ..... they were a smidgeon too long to fit into the tray. We were talking about removing a mear shaving from the tray for a snug fit. So out with the servos ...... Savox SO - 0253 - MG's to be exact. I took the said shaving out of the servo bay using a sharp exacto type knife ..... the type with the snap of blades. and the first in in place. then all three for the throttle, elevator and rudder. OK .... so thats that. Now I have looked at the conduits which lead down through the fuselage to the tail end. There are 3 of them and unless I'm mistaken, I only need 2. One for the Rudder control horn and one for the elevator ...... I'm off to do a bit of investigation. I'll be back. toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, toto said: may I be so bold as to ask where these came from A few places stock them including Make it Build it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Servos need about 1/8 clearance in total to allow the rubber grommets a chance to do their job if isolating from engine vibration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 OK ..... Its all worked out. I have six push rods in total. two very long versions with a clevis at one end and a blank end on the other. These are for my Rudder and Elevator. two shorter versions the same as the above .... a clevis and a blank ... these are for the ailerons. two medium length push rods each with a Z bend and a blank end ....... Throttle and front steering wheel. Sorted .... Happy the man. 😄 I'm going to call it a day for now as I am leaving on a good note. Tomorrow will be fitting the two control horns for the Rudder and Elevator and test fitting them to the servos. Not permanently as I still have to centre servos etc and make ready for the throttle and Steering which I will do after I start advancing the engine install and progressing the installation of the fuel tank, and other electrics ..... switch and receiver position etc. I can see it all coming together though ..... slow as it may be. Hopefully my 30 minute epoxy will arrive and let me get the wing glued and the aileron servo mounted etc. So ....thats it for now ..... toto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Might be worth searching for a copy of rc primer by Boddington, on ebay. Lots of step by step on installing gear and engine setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Nigel, just caught your post RE servo clearance. I'll make that one of my first corrections tomorrow. cheers toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 One more quickie. Here we are with the Force 0.46 2 stroke glow I will be using ..... and another ..... sitting in the engine bay ...... and a left hand exhaust port as you look front on ..... which means the electrical switch will be going to the opposite side and can now be fitted once I see exactly where the receiver will be going. cheers for now toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 36 minutes ago, toto said: ,,, Now I have looked at the conduits which lead down through the fuselage to the tail end. There are 3 of them and unless I'm mistaken, I only need 2. One for the Rudder control horn and one for the elevator ...... I'm off to do a bit of investigation. I'll be back. toto This design has been around for quite a number of years, the exra conduit is probably intended for a 35 MHz Rx aerial but redundant for 2.4GHz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Thank you for good Sir. Even though you know you have all the bases covered..... you still think ..... what have I missed. Just shows how long these have been about. Thanks again Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Still going over other tasks 8n my head for tomorrow evenings sessions and Peter Jenkins water test is also on the list. I've re-read his earlier post on this and have my head around it so should be good to go as well as the fixing of the control horns for the elevator and rudder. Just need this 30 minute epoxy to be delivered to let me get the wings joined and the curing process to start ...... c'mon Amazon...., extract thy digit. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) Right, I'm going to throw you a real curve ball now. I see that your engine is sitting way high with the carb centre above where the top of the tank will be and way off the accepted normal position for good running. You may or may not have trouble with the motor - some are far less tolerant of fuel head variation than others, especially towards the end of the tank - others are a nightmare. You'll only find out later. Carb/tank positioning is critical and you'll find pages of advice to get this correct, yet some ARTF manufacturers throw all of that out of the window and do what they've done with your model... why? You'll also have your model covered in gunk from the exhaust position - horrible. You might want to consider modifying the engine mount to a side winder, this will lower the carb spray bar to the correct position relative to the tank and will allow you to vent the exhaust crud away from the bottom of the model - even better with a silicon extension. OK, it's a bit of a pain now, but may well save you a lot of agro in the future, when a change will be much more difficult. Just a warning borne of bitter experience of beginners ARTFs in the past. Edited July 10, 2023 by Cuban8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 This particular model has been around for quite some time. You would imagine that if the engine mounting configuration were so fundamentally flawed that there would have been some feedback on the problem. When you say that you have bitter experience of beginner's ARTFs in the past are you referring to this particular model? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Two strokes mounted upright, in this fashion, with the tank centre aligned with the centre of the mount (i.e. so the neck can easily poke through the firewall), usually mean the tank top is approx level with the needle valve. This has caused no problems for me. Upright and exposed also gives good access which is useful in a trainer. As for exhaust gunk, a few inches of silicon tube can direct the mess away from the airframe? Note OS instructions for FP series engine explicitly ask for the needle to be aligned only just below the tank top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 16 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: This particular model has been around for quite some time. You would imagine that if the engine mounting configuration were so fundamentally flawed that there would have been some feedback on the problem. When you say that you have bitter experience of beginner's ARTFs in the past are you referring to this particular model? I'm just pointing out that a number of models that I've assisted beginners with in the past have had their engines mounted in a similar manner so as the carb spray bar is mounted very high up above the top of the tank and therefore not conforming to the recommended position of being in line with the tank centre line or only slightly higher. Plenty has been written on getting tank/carb positioning correct (look at the Laser threads on this very website), yet some kit manufacturers completely ignore it and for their own reasons go their own way. I have come across otherwise some perfectly good trainers that have suffered engine problems because of crazily out of position engines due to the way they've been made - I suppose to make access easy to the plug. The problem is not universal and indeed some engines with small carburettors like the old OS LA series didn't seem that fussy, but others with a bit of poke and bigger venturies could play up. I'm just pointing out a potential issue that I've come across and has been written about widely over the years, but that could be eliminated at this stage of the build. Beginners have have enough to learn and problems to solve, and poor engine reliabilty has been the downfall of many a tyro. Whether Toto feels it's worth making the change, even to just reduce the mess of fuel residue getting whipped over the top and side of the model from a sideways exhaust is up to him. I just thought it was worth a mention - even as a discussion point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Nigel R said: Two strokes mounted upright, in this fashion, with the tank centre aligned with the centre of the mount (i.e. so the neck can easily poke through the firewall), usually mean the tank top is approx level with the needle valve. This has caused no problems for me. Upright and exposed also gives good access which is useful in a trainer. As for exhaust gunk, a few inches of silicon tube can direct the mess away from the airframe? Note OS instructions for FP series engine explicitly ask for the needle to be aligned only just below the tank top. LAs and FPs had very small carbs so I guess were OK sitting a tad higher. Not an exact science by any means. Where's Jon when we need him😄 Edited July 10, 2023 by Cuban8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Straighten the carb up Toto, if you have not already done so. So the carb throttle arm is at the best straight alignment to the servo push rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 This is interesting as I had seen something only days ago ( I'm trying to mind where now ) that showed the engine mount mounted around 45 degrees to one side. I sort of expected that to be the case with this model for some reason but when I opened it up, the mount was premounted straight. I immediately looked at the instructions again and right enough , that is how its shown ..... mounted straight. But even as someone as inexperienced as myself, I could not help but wonder if the engine wasnt mounted " high ". I'm hot looking for extra work or complications but if it would be better rotated slightly , and , if I could get a bonafide " idiots guide " as to how to do it without risking the integrity of the model, I would consider it. As Cuban8 has pointed out ..... if it avoids future potential reliability issues ..... it has to be at least worth considering. I'm trying to imagine the kind of alterations that would be required and any potential weakening of the fire wall as a result of decimating it with additional captive nuts. Would it mean rkscing the firewall I wonder ..... scares me a bit ..... but maybe hot an experienced builder. As said though ....... worth the debate. Many thanks Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Once the aeroplane is off the bench and in the air, if the engine can't cope with the needle valve being a few mm above the mid point of the tank then you'll be in trouble- it'll be even higher above the midpoint of the tank the minute that you begin to climb. Maybe that's why you see folks do that whole ritual of holding the nose of the model up and shaking it wildly before flight - it's not just a voodoo dance. It's far from a simple modification to retrofit fit the motor as a sidewinder in this model, given the illustrated configuration of your motor mount. IF it were a square mount you could possibly rotate it and refit using the existing captive nuts, but it isn't. I'd suggest that the model will more than likely be fine as it is, with the engine monunted upright, hundreds, nay thousands, of Arising Stars have been operated for years on fields across the world and if this was a big issue then a simple search on the model should reveal it as such - plus you would have a reasonable expectation that the manufactirer might have dealt with such a fundamental issue in the many years these models have been on sale. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Meanwhile ...... back at the ranch ....... I have had some Bob Smith Industries 30 minute epoxy delivered.... just as I was finishing off the above post. I ordered this at the same time as I ordered the Z-poxy stuff as the estimated deIvery times were dire. So the BSI is first to arrive. The other stuff will do another assembly..... I have enough. Looks like the wing structure will come back into play tonight as I am keen to get this element out the way. It also opens up the ability to fit the aileron servo and push rods. Question ......... once I gave epoxied the wing brace ..... and ...... the two wing root sides ....... pushed these together ...... wiped away any extra epoxy and satisfied with the overall wing alignment ........ what is the best way to hold the wings together ensuring no movement whilst this cures. ...... a bit masking tape does not turn me on at all. This has to be held secure overnight at least ....... if I was very careful ..... would I send everybody running for the hills if I were to suggest a sort of lightweight clamp of some sort on the aileron side with a bit grease proof paper and maybe a slither of balsawood top and bottom so the clamp does not " bite " into and deform the wing surface ? Why suggestions / experiences welcome as always. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 You have the aireons and torque rods fitted already? A few rubber bands round the torque rods, from one torque rod to the other can keep some pressure on the back half of the wing pulling the joint together, so with that you could use the masking tape on the front of the wing, as well. Would you feel happier with that sort of arrangement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 In fact, looking at your pictures again, if you wanted to fit the engine as a sidewinder, you would also need to remove one of the side cheeks to fit the engine in there. Not something I'd be looking to do as a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Hi Leccyflyer, I hadn't considered the use of the torque rods .... it all helps having any additional assistance to just help prevent any kind of slippage whilst curing. I'll do a mock up of a dry run first to see how steady the assembly can be. Cheers Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Hi Leccyflyer, I thought as much myself with reference to the side cheek. That's why I mentioned potential issues with the models integrity. I spoke with my instructor yesterday whilst at the club and he informed me that he has the same model .... guess what ..... it only happens to be up for sale fully kitted out ( handy mentioned that before of course ). Anyway I can ask him about his experiences with the engine etc as he is a very experienced flyer as well. I suspect as already suggested that if it were an issue , it would have been highlighted and discussed to death by now given the numbers sold. Having said that, I still want to thank Cuban8 for bringing this up as it us interesting how it seems to " fly in the face of convention ". Excuse the pun. Always worth knowing about. Cheers Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 An Arising Star came my way a few years ago. Test flew it a few times before passing it on. Had no problem with the engine upright in any flight attitude, a bit under powered for take off on the grass but LA 40 was fine once up. As noted by Cuban 8 the carb of the LA is quite small resulting in a good draw [ suck ] on the fuel. Not familiar with Force engine's but would be interesting to know the size of the intake in the throttle barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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