Ron Gray Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 The CAA make a point of saying that to have another UAS category for Model Aircraft would be too costly to implement (yeah, right) therefore we have to assume that UAS means Model Aircraft. Questions 23 and 24 relate to UAS, irrespective of what it says later in the document about ‘we expect it not to include Model Aircraft. Any answers given against these questions will be recorded and any comments are separated and therefore become meaningless. So if you answer Agree then that is what will be recorded. Maybe I’m being cynical but the document has been worded in such a way to give the answers the CAA want. I will be responding with definitely disagree and will also put in my own comment as to why. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 Done mine, differed in parts from the guidance but it helped a lot, all the differing terms are mind numbing to me so referencing helped. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted December 10, 2023 Author Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) I need to give it another more detailed read, but my instant reaction is that (as expected) the BMFA/LMA response is a little too conciliatory for my taste; I don’t believe they used “Definitely disagree” anywhere. I will be being a fair bit more robust in my response when it comes to challenging the “evidence” presented and the rationale for RID for model flyers, especially in such this high cost and complex hybrid (network and broadcast) form. Edited December 10, 2023 by MattyB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve too Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 6 hours ago, MattyB said: my instant reaction is that (as expected) the BMFA/LMA response is a little too conciliatory for my taste The CAA has them by their article 16 authorisations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 I expect they would also prefer to be a little less 'conciliatory' as well, but they have to maintain a long-term working relationship... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 10 hours ago, MattyB said: I need to give it another more detailed read, but my instant reaction is that (as expected) the BMFA/LMA response is a little too conciliatory for my taste; I don’t believe they used “Definitely disagree” anywhere. I will be being a fair bit more robust in my response when it comes to challenging the “evidence” presented and the rationale for RID for model flyers, especially in such this high cost and complex hybrid (network and broadcast) form. I'm trying to put this to the back of my mind to prevent getting annoyed by it, to the extent that I'm not planning to respond until the new year. However my overall reading of the BMFA response was that, compared to the previous consultation, when I was not impressed by the amount of agreement with what were, to me, detrimental proposals, I thought that this time they did show a little more disagreement and putting forward the model flyers case, rather than bending over backwards to accommodate the drone flyers. It could be that was the LMA influence on the response? I somewhat agree though that there's a lack of Definitely Disagree responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Another way to look at this is to put yourself into the position of the CAA and look at how the information will be scanned when it’s returned (will all of the comments get read?) Couple that with what do the CAA want to see from the answers and you may look at your responses differently. They have made it clear that RID and NRID will be enforced based on skewed and somewhat flawed ‘data’ so they would hope that everyone agrees with that as it makes their case stronger. As I’ve said before, putting in phrases like ‘we do not expect’ instead of ‘will not apply to’ fills me with dread and tbh I don’t trust them one bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve too Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 FPV UK on CAP2610. https://fpvuk.org/fpv-uk-cap2610-uas-regulations-reponse-document/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 They agree with Geofencing (because most of their stuff is capable of it)? Whilst the BMFA try and encompass ALL churches, this response is SOLELY from their point of view...................... Unless, of course, I have mis-read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve too Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 4 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said: They agree with Geofencing ... I was surprised by that. As I said earlier in this topic, the geo-awareness/fencing path ends with a datalink to a service provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve too Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Ron Gray said: Another way to look at this is to put yourself into the position of the CAA and look at how the information will be scanned when it’s returned (will all of the comments get read?) Couple that with what do the CAA want to see from the answers and you may look at your responses differently. Are you the same Ron Gray who posted "Utter tosh" at the end of August? 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) Yep and that comment still holds true relating to what you said at that time. Things have now moved on and the latest proposals have somewhat narrowed things down. Edited December 10, 2023 by Ron Gray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Well, for the second time in less than four months I've spent (wasted?) a few hours of my life trying to get to grips with the latest CAA consultation document and filling in the response form. If I were a cynical person I could almost believe that the document is deliberately worded in an opaque manner to discourage much of a response, especially when many people will be tied up with other things over the Christmas period. I know that the people reading this thread are the ones most likely to fill in the form, but I'll just say please don't leave it until the last minute so it gets forgotten. If some of the proposals go through as they stand it will have a huge impact on all of us that fly in the UK. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottenRow Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, John T said: I know that the people reading this thread are the ones most likely to fill in the form, but I'll just say please don't leave it until the last minute so it gets forgotten. Good advice John, At my club’s recent AGM I gave a short speech about this and the previous consultation. Unfortunately there was very little interest amongst the members present, most were unaware of the proposals or the consequences that they will bring. Sadly the apathy of the majority of model aircraft fliers won’t help them when they start complaining about various conditions being imposed upon them in the near future. Brian. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve too Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 1 hour ago, RottenRow said: Unfortunately there was very little interest amongst the members present, most were unaware of the proposals or the consequences that they will bring. It doesn't help when the BMFA say things like this. (November's BMFA News referring to the call for input.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, steve too said: It doesn't help when the BMFA say things like this. (November's BMFA News referring to the call for input.) Apparently, most BMFA Members throw their copy knto the bin unopened according to many comments on here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted December 17, 2023 Author Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Peter Jenkins said: Apparently, most BMFA Members throw their copy into the bin unopened according to many comments on here. Probably not now, given that most of them will no longer receive a paper copy (hoo-bloomin-ray, long overdue IMO)...! Edited December 17, 2023 by MattyB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve too Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, MattyB said: Probably not now, given that most of them will no longer receive a paper copy IIRC we are all getting a paper copy in January. I am most curious as to what Symons has written in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 39 minutes ago, MattyB said: Probably not now, given that most of them will no longer receive a paper copy (hoo-bloomin-ray, long overdue IMO)...! Good point, well presented! They will probably just press delete instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) @steve too I think you missed out, Andy, after all that is his full name. Edited December 17, 2023 by Ron Gray 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peter Jenkins said: Apparently, most BMFA Members throw their copy knto the bin unopened according to many comments on here. I don't know about most members dumping the mag unopened - certainly, I know a few that don't bother with it at all but I think the truth is that most members - i.e. sport flyers doing it for fun - do give it a quick perusal for news and then skip the stuff about specialist competitions from international venues with unpronounceable names or discussions about various esoteric aspects of the hobby. I take my hat off to those hardy souls on this very forum who tell us that they diligently read every word of every article - I do my best with news updates and I do enjoy the R/C scale....... ......but however nicely written, the travails of competing in free flight comps or whatever else behind the old Iron Curtain is a little too much for me😉 Edited December 17, 2023 by Cuban8 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 I for one enjoy BMFA news, over the last few years it's got better & better, plenty of variety and members input. But I do prefer paper! 🙂 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 3 hours ago, steve too said: IIRC we are all getting a paper copy in January. I am most curious as to what Symons has written in it. It's always gratifying to hear I have a fan. I will see if I can arrange you an autographed copy. 5 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Phil Green said: I for one enjoy BMFA news, over the last few years it's got better & better, plenty of variety and members input. But I do prefer paper! 🙂 From the BMFA website......"Members will receive a hard copy of the BMFA NEWS in the New Year which will include their membership stickers, but the 3 subsequent issues planned for 2024 will be published online with hard copies only being available for an additional paid for subscription (£10 for 3 copies) to cover printing and postal costs" At least those that want a hard copy are being offered the opportunity of paying for it. I'm quite happy with dipping in and out of the mag on my phone or laptop as the fancy takes me. I wonder if only a tenner will cover the costs of a relatively few number of copies being printed will work out. Ten quid does seem very cheap considering the rising costs and price of other magazines and postage but how that will pan out considering the hullabaloo over a couple of quid on the basic subs I couldn't say. Maybe not so much a matter of numbers perhaps? Edited December 17, 2023 by Cuban8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said: It's always gratifying to hear I have a fan. I will see if I can arrange you an autographed copy. Andy,you have more the one Fan.....count me in.. Ken Anderson.....ne...1....Andy's fan club dept. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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