Why is my printer printing bananas?

[Allan Bennett]

Last Christmas I got my first printer, an Ender 3, and started printing using Creality's own PLA.  I then moved on to LW-PLA, for which I bought ColorFabb following recommendations in this discussion.  I printed two LW-PLA models without any issues, and many PLA brackets and other widgets.

 

Now, wanting some blue LW-PLA I bought a reel of PolyLight 1.0 Navy Blue since ColorFabb don't seem to do any blue.  I managed to print a few components for my next model with it, but detail didn't seem to come out so well.  But today each time I started a print of a wing part it started to lift off the bed at the leading edge after about 5 layers had printed.  I thought it was an adhesion problem so I first smeared some PritStick on the bed (as I'd read in another thread) but that started to lift off even sooner than before.  Then I washed the bed with soap and water, and dried it, and started a test print with ColorFabb LW-PLA.  That seemed okay so I then started the print again with the PolyLight stuff, and it seemed to go okay too.  I went for my tea with about 1cm printed and, when I came back a couple of hours later the print was nearly finished but it looked like this:

 

 

 

The bed was at 55 degrees and the nozzle was at 245 degrees, which are the settings I've used for most LW-PLA printing (though I did previously try 235 degrees nozzle for the PolyLight for a couple of tests).  Fan was running at 20% for all layers after the first one.  The ambient temperature in my workshop was about 12 degrees; could this be the cause of what seems to be shrinkage of the material as it's cooling?

 

 

[Simon Chaddock]

At 12 degrees the LW-PLA the body of the print will cool significantly. Remember it is laid down at 245degrees! The majority of the contraction will be across the line of the beads causing the item to lift of the bed. This problem is not so severe with the lower temperature of ordinary PLA. 

The classic solution for high temperature printing is to print inside a hot cabinet so the print does not suffer such quick cooling. For many printers this means the cabinet has to encompass the entire machine. Done like this some of its electronics may not take kindly to running for long periods at elevated temperatures.

Alternatively keep the area where the machine is used at "sunny summer" temperatures like 25 degrees.

[FlyinFlynn]

A couple of self tappers at the ends will hold them down 🙂.    As a side note (and potentially less flippant) my pritt stick ran out yesterday so I bought two packs of some non-descript sticks so I could carry on printing parts for my new cnc - that didn't last long as all I will say is not all pritt sticks are created the same! Ah well, I suppose the missus will not be running out of paper glue any time soon and I'm off to the shops again.......

 

Is it possible to print these parts on a raft to increase the contact area?

 

 

[Ron Gray]

I had the same problems with general printing when my Prusa was in the workshop, all such issues disappeared when I moved it into my house!

 

Totally enclose it and add some heating.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Ron Gray

[Allan Bennett]

Looks like a move into the house is the answer , , , ,  subject to planning approval from the Boss!

[leccyflyer]

I also had exactly the same problem with printing with ABS especially, in the workshop and even in the not very warm modelling room in the old house. I have since  looked into fitting an enclosure for my Creality 5 Pro, but various videos showed that there could be an issue with the printer getting too hot when completely enclosed. I haven't tried printing in ABS since. My current workshop is kept at a very pleasant 16 degrees, which I find an ideal working temperature year round, but probably a bit too cool for ABS.

[Ron Gray]

Totally enclosed but with vents (top) should be OK. If you were really fussy you could fit a temperature controlled low volume extract fan to help maintain the temp.

[Allan Bennett]

Permission granted, so this afternoon the printer came into our utility room which is at a nice 20+ degrees.  But the first attempt at printing the same wing part as before was abandoned after about 25mm of height had been printed because it was visibly lifting off the bed fore and aft.  Measuring it showed 2mm difference in height between ends and middle.

 

I then re-sliced the STL file using exactly the same parameters as before, with the addition of a 3-layer raft.  This was successful, without any visible signs of lifting:

 

 

The challenge now is to get the part detached from the raft!  Tomorrow I'll be printing a couple of other wing parts with rafts, to verify that this is the way forward with this filament.  Using ColorFab LW-PLA filament over the summer months to print an EDF F16 I had no such problems, with all printed sections slotting together like Lego with no curvature causing gaps.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Allan Bennett

[EvilC57]

A thought about the stringing and other issues you’re having with LW-PLA. Particularly if your printer and filament were kept in a cold (damp?) workshop, could your filament be damp? It’s important to keep it dry, as this can affect the quality of prints.

 

I proved this recently when trying to print a fuselage section for a Planeprint Notos F3A. I was getting severe stringing and layer gaps when printing with an old reel of PLA+, I then tried printing the same part with a brand new reel of the same filament (and all the same settings), and the part came out perfectly. After much research, I bought an Eibos Easdry filament drier, and having put the old filament in the drier for a few hours, I tried a test print and it came out perfectly.

 

Another way of identifying damp filament is the fact that it goes brittle. The old PLA+ I mentioned above snapped easily if bent prior to drying, but was much more resilient afterwards.

[Allan Bennett]

The filament is kept in the cold workshop (garage), but it's probably less damp than ambient.  I'm not surprised at the stringing I'm getting, for that's been the case with ColorFab LW-PLA I used in the summer (including straight-out-of-the-packaging reels) as well as this current new reel.  But you make a good point there, so I'll store my reels indoors anyway from now on.

 

Incidentally, why can retract not be used with LW-PLA to stop or minimise the stringing?

[EvilC57]

My understanding is that if LW-PLA is retracted it effectively spends too long inside the hot end, which will cause it to continue to foam and expand, so it’ll ooze out of the nozzle anyway. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, EvilC57 said:

A thought about the stringing and other issues you’re having with LW-PLA. Particularly if your printer and filament were kept in a cold (damp?) workshop, could your filament be damp? It’s important to keep it dry, as this can affect the quality of prints.

 

I proved this recently when trying to print a fuselage section for a Planeprint Notos F3A. I was getting severe stringing and layer gaps when printing with an old reel of PLA+, I then tried printing the same part with a brand new reel of the same filament (and all the same settings), and the part came out perfectly. After much research, I bought an Eibos Easdry filament drier, and having put the old filament in the drier for a few hours, I tried a test print and it came out perfectly.

 

Another way of identifying damp filament is the fact that it goes brittle. The old PLA+ I mentioned above snapped easily if bent prior to drying, but was much more resilient afterwards.

Interesting. Do you have the filament reel mounted in the drier during printing, or just use it to dry the filament "offline", then fit the reel to the printer's filament holder?

[Allan Bennett]

9 hours ago, EvilC57 said:

My understanding is that if LW-PLA is retracted it effectively spends too long inside the hot end, which will cause it to continue to foam and expand, so it’ll ooze out of the nozzle anyway. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

That makes sense.  

[PeterF]

What I have found to help lifting is to print a wide brim around the object about 1cm, for components like wings this needs to be inside as well as outside. I suppose it is like a 1 layer raft. For the object to lift it has to tear off from the brim, as the brim is wide and flexi for the object to lift it would need to pull a vacuum (assuming the brim is not porous).

[EvilC57]

10 hours ago, leccyflyer said:

Interesting. Do you have the filament reel mounted in the drier during printing, or just use it to dry the filament "offline", then fit the reel to the printer's filament holder?

Unfortunately due to the position of my printer (Ender 3 V2) in a corner, it doesn't allow anywhere sensible to be able to feed filament directly from the drier, so I dry the filament 'offline' and remove it for printing.

 

Once dried, I also keep all my rolls of filament in small filament vacuum storage bags when they're not in use.

[leccyflyer]

Thanks. That seems a sensible way of doing it and I'll have to look into it. BTW the IDig PLA that you recommended is just coming to the end of it's reel and it's been by far the best filament that I've used -completely hassle free, other than the terrible communications and extended delivery time from the company. It's so good though that I've bitten the bullet and reordered from them - will see if they do better this time.

 

My Ender 5 Pro is a bit restricted for space also. I just looked at the flexible enclosure tents available from Creality, but unfortunately it's just too big to fit into the space that I have available. I really don't want to have to move the printer, but the maximum footprint I can afford is 700mmx650mm. There are designs online to make an enclosure from plexiglass or polycarbonate sheets, but the ones I've seen are all horrendously complex for what is a fairly simple task.

[EvilC57]

35 minutes ago, PeterF said:

What I have found to help lifting is to print a wide brim around the object about 1cm, for components like wings this needs to be inside as well as outside. I suppose it is like a 1 layer raft. For the object to lift it has to tear off from the brim, as the brim is wide and flexi for the object to lift it would need to pull a vacuum (assuming the brim is not porous).

I find a brim with a width of 8 lines to be sufficient for most things. Any more just seems like a waste of filament.

 

For tall thin things like ailerons I've found that because my printer is not enclosed in a case, any drafts or extraneous movements, particularly as the item item gets taller, can cause it to vibrate and lead to irregularities in the print. If I'm printing something tall and thin now, I leave the room and close the door (and window) until it's finished, so as not to cause any unnecessary air movements around the printer.

[PDB]

6 minutes ago, EvilC57 said:

I find a brim with a width of 8 lines to be sufficient for most things. Any more just seems like a waste of filament.

 

For tall thin things like ailerons I've found that because my printer is not enclosed in a case, any drafts or extraneous movements, particularly as the item item gets taller, can cause it to vibrate and lead to irregularities in the print. If I'm printing something tall and thin now, I leave the room and close the door (and window) until it's finished, so as not to cause any unnecessary air movements around the printer.

I too find a 5-8 line brim does the trick.

 

Re printing tall parts like ailerons, a tip is print it in two parts by putting 50% of the part under the bed in the slicer, slice then rotate and repeat.👍

[EvilC57]

19 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Thanks. That seems a sensible way of doing it and I'll have to look into it. BTW the IDig PLA that you recommended is just coming to the end of it's reel and it's been by far the best filament that I've used -completely hassle free, other than the terrible communications and extended delivery time from the company. It's so good though that I've bitten the bullet and reordered from them - will see if they do better this time.

 

My Ender 5 Pro is a bit restricted for space also. I just looked at the flexible enclosure tents available from Creality, but unfortunately it's just too big to fit into the space that I have available. I really don't want to have to move the printer, but the maximum footprint I can afford is 700mmx650mm. There are designs online to make an enclosure from plexiglass or polycarbonate sheets, but the ones I've seen are all horrendously complex for what is a fairly simple task.

Shame you've just reordered from iDig!  I ordered two further reels of Colorfabb LW-PLA and a reel of their Varioshore TPU from a company called 123-3D, who are a larger well established company here in the UK - unfortunately I hadn't come across them at the time of my original recommendation. I had much better communication from them, indeed they sent me an email to apologise for the fact that there would be a delay in despatching the TPU, and would that be OK?

 

I haven't got room for an enclosure around my printer either, it's on top of a small pair of filing cabinets in the corner of my office, and already overhangs slightly at the front. So as I said in my previous post, I just treat the whole room as a cabinet, and go out and close the door sometimes.

[EvilC57]

7 minutes ago, PDB said:

...by putting 50% of the part under the bed in the slicer...

Yes, I only discovered recently that you can do that. I wanted to print just the top 1/2 inch of a large fuelage section to check something, and didn't want to print the whole thing, which would take 9 hours and waste a load of filament if it didn't work properly.

[Allan Bennett]

10 hours ago, PeterF said:

What I have found to help lifting is to print a wide brim around the object about 1cm, for components like wings this needs to be inside as well as outside. I suppose it is like a 1 layer raft. For the object to lift it has to tear off from the brim, as the brim is wide and flexi for the object to lift it would need to pull a vacuum (assuming the brim is not porous).

I've been using a 6mm brim this afternoon and all is going well with wing components which are about 15mm wide/thick.  Thank you for all the tips.

[leccyflyer]

On 29/11/2023 at 10:44, EvilC57 said:

Shame you've just reordered from iDig!  I ordered two further reels of Colorfabb LW-PLA and a reel of their Varioshore TPU from a company called 123-3D, who are a larger well established company here in the UK - unfortunately I hadn't come across them at the time of my original recommendation. I had much better communication from them, indeed they sent me an email to apologise for the fact that there would be a delay in despatching the TPU, and would that be OK?

 

I haven't got room for an enclosure around my printer either, it's on top of a small pair of filing cabinets in the corner of my office, and already overhangs slightly at the front. So as I said in my previous post, I just treat the whole room as a cabinet, and go out and close the door sometimes.

IDig actually played a blinder and my roll of PLA just arrived a few minutes ago. Excellent service and my faith is restored. 🙂

 

So much so that I'm going to bite the bullet, rejig my benches a little and put the  Ender 5 Pro in an enclosure on the deeper bench where my pillar drill is currently situated. It means moving a few wall fixed stacks of storage drawers and bins around, but the workshop is clad in ply for just that reason, to be flexible in which things are attached to the walls and where. I can also then utilise the steel cabinet under the bench to store the filament in those bags you mentioned. Should make for a more streamlined workspace - I don't use any of the power tools when the 3D printer is working, because of vibration through the connected benches.

[EvilC57]

29 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

IDig actually played a blinder and my roll of PLA just arrived a few minutes ago. Excellent service and my faith is restored. 🙂

123-3D worth bearing in mind for future reference though 🙂.

[leccyflyer]

Got the enclosure for my Ender 5 Pro constructed and installed today. It ought to have been straightforward, but it's much bigger than the footprint of the Ender 5, sitting at 750mm deep. I thought it was 700mm deep and 750mm wide, but it was the other way around. That meant it could only fit on my deepest bench, if it was going to stay in the workshop. So I needed to move a few tool racks and my pillar drill, to make space for the enclosure. Hopefully that more stable temperature will make it possible to print with ABS, as well as my usual PLA.

 

[FlyinFlynn]

Is it made of a fireproof material? 🙂

 

Might double up as a weed growing tent too 🙂